A bunch of ego maniac sociopaths work their way in to the top positions and then start doing fucked up shit to further consolidate their power
Is that really how organisations work, or is the fucked up shit because organisations have to exist under capitalist regimes where fast growers take over and slow growers vanish into irrelevance, leading to a natural selection?
Is it the case that the very existence of positions causes trouble, or is it the benefits associated with them that lead to greed and competition?
A system that is dispersed enough that no individual or minority group can have so much power and influence to the point it can dictate the life outcomes for the majority
Is this not just a majoritarian direct democracy? I mean I don’t necessarily have a problem with it, but what is the relation to authority or dispersion here? Do you want some sort of absolute direct democracy where technical experts don’t have control over their respective fields? You need to be more clear.
I think people who continue to promote such a system lack the creativity to think outside the lines already drawn for them.
Or maybe it’s because they wish to build off prior experience rather than jump head first into the personal ideals of some guy? I mean why should we structure society in the way you want it? Why not in the way I want it?
I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have all the answers. It’s much easier to see the flaws in something that it is to invent the solution. The main thing I am trying to promote here is to define what kind of world and society we want to live in. This is the first step. Then we can discuss how to achieve it. If we can’t agree on the first step then we cannot move to step #2. What I know for certain is I do not want to live in an authoritarian world. I just have no interest in some random person deciding how my life will pan out based on them pursuing their own special interests.
If you do not have the answers then stop being dogmatic about how society should be organized. How can you be qualified to have such strong opinions about authority and decentralisation without knowing what kind of organisation you prefer? As you are, who can you convince to follow your ideals?
Understand where your class interests lie and then move forward from that. Be open and learn even from the people you’re told to hate.
You don’t have the answers either though. I am literally being open with you. The organisation I prefer is anarcho-syndicalism but it has it’s flaws. Different system work on different scales and game theory complicates things further. In any case I am not trying to convince you to follow my ideals, I am trying to understand your ideals because they are also full of flaws (based on my current understanding). It could be I am missing some things though. So far I have not come across any new information but it’s still interesting to see how others are thinking. There are plenty of tribalists in here who apply label and disengage brain (they get blocked) and plenty of well meaning people who haven’t quite thought things through the whole way and end up contradicting themselves (I know might be in this group too). I do know that no one person or minority group on the planet have all the answers or are even capable of consistently acting in good faith which is why I know authority is a non-starter. If you can convince me otherwise I will be happy to change my mind.
Which is why I went to learn from every ideology. I studied anarchist theory. I studied bourgeois economics. I studied communist theory. I even had a socdem phase.
The organisation I prefer is anarcho-syndicalism
Then just say that from the start.
Different system work on different scales
Which is why we should approach problems with a toolkit approach rather than sticking to one way of solving problems.
I do know that no one person or minority group on the planet have all the answers or are even capable of consistently acting in good faith which is why I know authority is a non-starter.
What exactly in your view is “authority”?
Communists use “authority” in the colloquial sense (as a synonym for “jurisdiction”, aka a designated field of formal decision making power). In the communist view, authority is nothing more than a component of dividing labor and responsibility which cannot be rid of in a complex society.
My doctor has the authority over prescribing medicines to me (which let’s be clear, I’m not a big fan of) and the streets sweeper has authority over the machine thing they use (so it is their responsibility to use the machine and prevent others from messing with it).
I am well aware that anarchists have their own definitions of authority but I have heard so many different definitions that I have to ask this every time I come across a new anarchist.
Is that really how organisations work, or is the fucked up shit because organisations have to exist under capitalist regimes where fast growers take over and slow growers vanish into irrelevance, leading to a natural selection?
Is it the case that the very existence of positions causes trouble, or is it the benefits associated with them that lead to greed and competition?
Is this not just a majoritarian direct democracy? I mean I don’t necessarily have a problem with it, but what is the relation to authority or dispersion here? Do you want some sort of absolute direct democracy where technical experts don’t have control over their respective fields? You need to be more clear.
Or maybe it’s because they wish to build off prior experience rather than jump head first into the personal ideals of some guy? I mean why should we structure society in the way you want it? Why not in the way I want it?
I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have all the answers. It’s much easier to see the flaws in something that it is to invent the solution. The main thing I am trying to promote here is to define what kind of world and society we want to live in. This is the first step. Then we can discuss how to achieve it. If we can’t agree on the first step then we cannot move to step #2. What I know for certain is I do not want to live in an authoritarian world. I just have no interest in some random person deciding how my life will pan out based on them pursuing their own special interests.
If you do not have the answers then stop being dogmatic about how society should be organized. How can you be qualified to have such strong opinions about authority and decentralisation without knowing what kind of organisation you prefer? As you are, who can you convince to follow your ideals?
Understand where your class interests lie and then move forward from that. Be open and learn even from the people you’re told to hate.
You don’t have the answers either though. I am literally being open with you. The organisation I prefer is anarcho-syndicalism but it has it’s flaws. Different system work on different scales and game theory complicates things further. In any case I am not trying to convince you to follow my ideals, I am trying to understand your ideals because they are also full of flaws (based on my current understanding). It could be I am missing some things though. So far I have not come across any new information but it’s still interesting to see how others are thinking. There are plenty of tribalists in here who apply label and disengage brain (they get blocked) and plenty of well meaning people who haven’t quite thought things through the whole way and end up contradicting themselves (I know might be in this group too). I do know that no one person or minority group on the planet have all the answers or are even capable of consistently acting in good faith which is why I know authority is a non-starter. If you can convince me otherwise I will be happy to change my mind.
Which is why I went to learn from every ideology. I studied anarchist theory. I studied bourgeois economics. I studied communist theory. I even had a socdem phase.
Then just say that from the start.
Which is why we should approach problems with a toolkit approach rather than sticking to one way of solving problems.
What exactly in your view is “authority”?
Communists use “authority” in the colloquial sense (as a synonym for “jurisdiction”, aka a designated field of formal decision making power). In the communist view, authority is nothing more than a component of dividing labor and responsibility which cannot be rid of in a complex society.
My doctor has the authority over prescribing medicines to me (which let’s be clear, I’m not a big fan of) and the streets sweeper has authority over the machine thing they use (so it is their responsibility to use the machine and prevent others from messing with it).
I am well aware that anarchists have their own definitions of authority but I have heard so many different definitions that I have to ask this every time I come across a new anarchist.