Didn’t Tesla get in hot water for faking post crash logs that indicate the driver overrode autopilotb immediately before the crash? I don’t know if I’d trust them tbh.
This is nothing to do with the manufacturer of this particular vehicle nor any aspect of the vehicle.
Driver pressed the accelerator instead of the brake.
Did Elon tell you this? And you believed him?
What I mean is that these types of accident happen all the time in all kinds of vehicles.
That this particular driver was in a
volkswagonswasticar is irrelevant.I don’t think it is irrelevant though. in a car that can and does control your throttle without your input, and is famously poorly built with tons of software issues, built by a company whose head is a famous conman, you can’t assume that this is driver error, even if it is a semi-common driver error.
Don’t forgot how they like about this very thing in the past and got scooped.
I can believe that Tesla is lying.
I can also believe that the driver just stomped the wrong pedal.
I can even believe then at the same time.
There is enough wrong with Tesla and its owner to talk about without speculation.
My tesla frequently claims I am pressing the accelerator on startup while I’m 100% pressing the brake. I’ve even looked down and checked. Nope, thats the brake all right.
If you bought a Tesla after January 2025, you may be fundamentally confused about the difference between accelerating forward and smashing into brick walls.
Did Musk tell them that?
Electronic data recovered from the vehicle indicated that before the crash, the driver manually overrode FSD (Supervised) by pressing the accelerator pedal to 100%
So no, looks like they checked the logs.
I was kinda assuming the driver messed up this time. The fact that it was pressed to 100% through the crash and still after makes me think he thought it was the brake.
Absolutely. I said it the last time this was posted, that this is an extremely common wreck with every model of car. About half of the drivers in my family growing up caused an accident this way. People press the accelerator when they think they’re pressing the brake. The car goes faster, so they press the “brake” harder.
And even after the crash, the driver often insists that it’s a problem with the car.
It’s a driver error. A foot misalignment problem. It probably does happen more with any “self driving” car or anybody who uses smart cruise control, because the driver may not be using the pedals at all before the incident.
It probably does happen more with any “self driving” car or anybody who uses smart cruise control, because the driver may not be using the pedals at all before the incident.
a really good point I’d never considered when thinking about accidents like these.
Intuitively it makes sense. If my heel remains planted in front of the accelerator pedal even if I’m not pressing it, I still have a frame of reference to know where the brake pedal is. If I’m using all the fancy assisted driving stuff on a long stretch I may relax a bit and pull my foot back, but that does mean if I need to slam on the brakes my reaction time will be worse, and I run the risk of hitting the wrong pedal since I don’t have that anchor point anymore.
good thing to be mindful of when using cruise control of any type, newfangled or old school.
Yeah, for sure. Even when I use cruise control, I rest my foot on the brake pedal, both so I can react more quickly and so I don’t miss the pedal somehow.
Yeah. That’s always been my nightmare driving a regular car too, the “stop” and “go faster” buttons are right next to each other and in a place you can’t see them. Such a weird standard, presumably a result of the requirement for physical linkages from early in car history. Would have been nice if electric vehicles had provided an opportunity to rethink that paradigm.
The reason for the gas/brake being next to eachother is due to the historical need to work the clutch pedal at the same time as the gas/brake in manual transmissions. However most modern EVs (including tesla model 3s) have single-pedal driving (press to go, release to slow), so the standard is indeed changing!
eachother
Not a word, my dude.
Whocares?
Edit: No, hang on - Sincerely, why do you care? People make typos all the time and this isn’t reddit circa 2012, a person’s worth is no longer evaluated entirely on their passing a proofread.
Off-by-one error
IDK how those logs are generated or kept but I don’t put it passed Elon to have data rewritten in the event of or just prior to an expected crash. I’ve also heard reports of cars disengaging autopilot just before a crash to claim the “driver was in control” during the crash.
Warl0k3 has posted elsewhere in this thread with information about how these logs are generated and kept, they’re event data recorders. They need to meet federal standards which presumably would include protections against having the data rewritten like that. Seems likely that if this was being done it would be a serious crime and probably a bigger news story than the crash itself, do you have any actual sources?
Sorry, pure conjecture on my part. I just know Elon is as close to a Bond villain as it gets, they have released misleading reports for years, their fatal accident ratings are atrocious, Elon fired regulators that oversee his business, Tesla has lied about missing crash data, and there’s a fair amount of open lawsuits involving safety (some from whistleblowers).
Just saying accidental acceleration would be an easier pill to swallow if it was any other car brand.
It’s not accidental acceleration, though. The driver had the accelerator pressed 100%.
You can’t gather intent necessarily from the data. Someone else also suggested they mistook the accelerator for the brake. No reports seem to mention if the driver was impaired but I doubt it’s normal for someone to attempt vehicular suicide stone-cold sober
He did in fact, before the investigation was concluded. Read the article.
There’s only 1 way they could know that and that’s if the prolific liar told them it did.
They checked the car’s logs.
No, they asked the prolific liar to provide the logs.
Really. Do you have any sources that indicate that?
I love EVs. But stop defending Tesla. Even if it was true that the driver pressed the accelerator to 100%, it’s irrelevant. If the FSD put the car in a collision trajectory and the driver got scared and accidentally pressed the accelerator instead of the brake in the last second, it’s still the fault of FSD. The accelerator made it worse, but the car would still have crashed.
What “defending?” I’m explaining where they got the information from. It’s literally in their preliminary report. I said nothing beyond that fact.
I love EVs. But stop defending Tesla.
I think we’re beyond defending that one company.
If the FSD put the car in a collision trajectory and the driver got scared and accidentally pressed the accelerator instead of the brake in the last second, it’s still the fault of FSD
Yeah, FSD put the car into danger, through some kind of lag or stupidity.
But at the moment of impact, the driver had stomped on any pedal and taken control. It’s like someone tossed you a greased cobra in a room full of cub scouts. You’re all fucked no matter what you do, but you’re the one with the snake.
I want the NTSB to take the data and see how FSD plotted that particular path, and I want Tesla to take their share of blame - probably 100% - but the sad thing is, the driver - technically - was in control at time of impact, and the legal system (and P.R) will hyperfocus on that particular immaterial detail - doubly bad it was the wrong pedal - and the case won’t go anywhere.
Tesla’s to blame for ditching lidar, over-promising FSD, all kinds of things. Society is to blame for focusing on the gas pedal and will blame the driver for merely being where the cobra landed. The NTSB (or whatever that org is named) is to blame for not being absolute dickweeds with every collision before this one and ensuring a fix for every bug.
The driver is to ‘blame’ for doing a very human panic response and taking control in a very understandable fashion past the point where it could have helped, but in doing so takes all responsibility. And that’s the saddest part.
What other possible scenario exists?
They read the logs themselves. The NTSB routinely does investigations and Teslas are a popular brand of car, why wouldn’t they have the ability to read their logs?
Do you think the company that created the logging system doesn’t have the capability to remotely manipulate the logs?
Actually yes. Event data recorders are highly regulated components, and Teslas especially are quite frequently tested for compliance (because nobody trusts them. They’re fascists). As far as I am aware (and to be clear I’ve looked into this rather extensively) there has never been any indication that Tesla has the ability to manipulate information stored in the EDR system, and if indications of it were found it would likely result in the temporary suspension of road certification for all affected models while the issue was investigated - the NTSB’s nuclear option.
Capability, sure. Do you think they actually did, though? That’s a positive assertion that I would want to see some kind of actual evidence for beyond an assertion by some random commenter on the Internet.
I suspect you don’t have any evidence because if there was I think that would probably be by far the bigger story here. Which is why I expect Tesla would refrain from taking the risk of tampering with logs in situations like this.
Both at fault. Buyer is idiot for purchasing it and builder for producing it. One more, Govt for approving this flaming piece-o-shit.
EVs with that kind of acceleration are fun and all but when you mix up gas and brake there’s no time to consider the possibility that occurred before the car is where it shouldn’t be.
