A conversation with Justin Ellis about "The Cruelty of Nice Folks"

Your book, like Elizabeth Hinton’s “America on Fire,” delves into a decades-long cycle that’s played out in many US cities: Police violence, followed by uprisings, followed by promises for reform and blue ribbon commissions that ultimately produce only “modest change and a photo op.” Did you come out of your reporting with a solid idea of what a better process would look like?

Ellis: I don’t know how you can look at Minneapolis today and say they are better for choosing reform over revolution. The mayor reorganized the public safety department, then there was turnover in the leadership there. The chief who was supposed to lead the transformation of the police force recently resigned in disgrace. Like most police departments in the country, the budget continues to balloon thanks to overtime costs. And at the moment the city is failing to even meet the basics of its court-mandated reforms. By definition this is insanity, right?

I think like anything in local government, having a process for the community to guide designs and offer feedback is important. But I think the starting point has to be a total tear down, not a rebuild. That sounds simplistic, but look at where making changes on the edges has gotten us? Revised training standards and use of force policies have amounted to departments that are effectively the same. The aim needs to be so much higher.

  • deft@lemmy.wtf
    1·
    2 days ago

    Look I learned this in school I don’t run around collecting sources for what is essentially a blip in human history. I understand what you’re saying but in general this is the huge flaw in not just anarchist movements but liberal movements entirely, purity tests.

    I think my favorite description heard of it is the concept of a circular firing squad. Once an individual or faction starts making moves others don’t consider anarchist/libertarian/liberal enough they begin infighting and fracturing. And once that cooperation stutters even a little the machine starts to struggle.

    If we were to follow your own logic; the reason France, Poland, and all the other nations that fell to the Nazi’s in WWII must’ve mainly been due to them being capitalist liberal democracies (when in reality, it was mainly due to modern military strategies by Germany combined with their logistical ability).

    Yes to a degree. It’s long been argued that fascism’s greatest strength is the speed at which decisions can be made, they will rip through everything to put their man in charge. The Nazis military structure literally leans into this and relied heavily on Nazi high command to orchestra its movements. They had an over-centralization, which directly led to them losing some fights. On the flip side of that anarchist movements have a lack of centralization that can often paralyze decision making in a crisis. Democracies tend to be in between with decentralized representation in the form of elections and some degree of centralization with their military structures. But democracies also had the unfortunate benefit of being well-established. Obviously this is a super watered down version but you want a like 60 page essay on an analysis of centralized vs decentralized command structures I’m sure people have already written about this.

    Could you provide the sources for that? I have not come across any source that says the Anarchist militias were slow to respond or ineffective with the meager supplies they had, where did you learn this?

    It did take me a bit to find but I think “the CNT in the Spanish revolution” by Jose Peirats was one I’ve seen countlessly cited. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/jose-peirats-the-cnt-in-the-spanish-revolution-volume-1#toc14

    It’s pretty fucking exhausting to read but it basically just outlines the consistent battle between how local groups fought against larger regional influence and often at times just neglected calls for higher degrees of organization in favor of their own autonomy. If I had to sum it up it’s just showing repeatedly how often they had to form an assembly that resulted in representatives asking for people to come together time and time again, often without a degree of success that was needed for victory. And sometimes lending itself to further infighting cause once they start doing or saying things people didn’t agree with, their hype and motivation wanes which kills collectivism.

    I’m also pretty sure Orwell has written about this detailing the lack of supplies that are tied directly to a failure of logistics although I’m not sure he touches upon that exactly, I think he just talks about their lack of supplies and the situation they found themselves in.

    It’s very easy to try and paint it that they were simply overpowered which is true but part of them being overpowered was their own weakness to establish a central command necessary for wartime decision making. They also refused outside help in fear it would kneecap their revolution. Logistics wins wars that’s history 101, anarchism does not lend well to large scale logistics.