• rumschlumpel@feddit.org
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    15 hours ago

    The USA did stack up favorably against Europe when it was founded. Even including all the bullshit that was baked-in from the start, 18th century Europe was just that bad - everything that’s bad about the US originates in Europe, after all.

    • abbiistabbii@piefed.blahaj.zone
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      8 hours ago
      1. Pointing to 18th century Europe and saying “Well it was just as bad over there” isn’t a fucking argument. It does not negate shit. It’s literally Whataboutism. The fact 18th Century France or Russia was shit does not make America’s post colonial bullshit any better. Saying “yeah it’s okay for us to babble on about freedom while owning slaves and preventing most of the population from voting because Russia has Feudalism still” is the most childish bullshit ever.
      2. Even at the time people outside the US were reading the Declaration of Independence and going “How the fuck can they talk about Freedom and Liberty while owning so many slaves?” Like you had people going “wow, what hypocrites”. Hell, part of the motivation for the American Revolution was because the Tide was clearly turning against slavery and the US wanted to keep it’s fucking slaves!
      3. Most of Europe has moved on since 1789, not just constitutionally, but in the way it sees itself. The United Kingdom’s Constitution, which is a compilation of laws, now allows for Universal Sufferage for everyone over 18 and Devolution for three out of the four home nations, whereas before, only rich landowning men could vote and if wore a kilt in mainland Scotland, you went to Prison. France is on it’s Fifth Republic, as imperfect as it maybe. America on the other hand, treats the constitution as a Holy Document and includes it in an Edition of the Bible that the President of the US has promoted himself, and won’t even dare consider removing an Amendment put in place to raise Militias to put down Tax Rebellions because Guns come before the lives of Children! Are we fucking perfect?

      Are we non Americans perfect? No, but at least we openly admit it, don’t treat our constitution like a Holy Book, and don’t fucking talk about our Founders like they are Gods, including in paintings in our fucking parliament buildings.