i love asoiaf but it’s hard to start rereading atm of course
Unsure about quaint but Discworld is absolutely pleasant and grows a delightful lore around itself. General advice is skip the first two (Pratchett was just figuring it out) and come back to them when you already love Rincewind.
Second vote for Discworld
Guards! Guards!
Mort
Wyrd Sisters
Are all good places to start.
Small Gods is my goto reccomendation for starting points, it’s completely self contained and one of Pratchett’s best works
That’s a good thought on starting points.
Second Small Gods. It’s my favourite discworld book (even though I love the whole series).
Thirded. Discworld is great.
Small Gods and Reaper Man ftw.
Just to add that the BBC has done good audio dramatisations of several of Pratchet’s works.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03mz1wb/episodes/guide
Small Gods and Mort for example, are excellent. Currently not available on bbc iplayer / sounds, although they do regularly rebroadcast them and make them available online, but should be floating around on the torrent or archive sites.
BBC sounds/radio is free to listen outside the UK, unlike the tv content.
All solid choices!
I love the first 2 and it’s where I started, I don’t see anything wrong with them and I will die on that hill.
I agree. The Colour of Magic is what got me into Discworld and I thoroughly enjoyed it as a standalone for a while.
I read the Discworld series in publication order and loved it. There was an almost continuous improvement in quality over the first few books which was also satisfying.
I really don’t think they’re bad or even worse than the rest. I do feel like they’re so different from the other books that whether someone liked them or not doesn’t tell them if they’ll like the rest, which is the only reason I don’t recommend it as a taster before deciding on whether to read the other 30+ tomes.
Fair play! I don’t think they’re bad per se but I do think that the others are significantly better. I wouldn’t use the first two to demonstrate why Pratchett is one of the best things to happen to the English language since punctuation.
I’ll join you there - I loved Pratchett’s writing already from his Johnny series I read at school and read those first two all in one go during a summer holiday in my early teens. Great fantasy comedies.
But - I can see the argument that they’re not representative of the series as a whole as it developed… not that I think Terry was probably setting out to write a massive series at the time he was writing those books. Anyway they’ll always have a place in my heart.
However, it’s a series that ran for decades ago I compare it to something like Doctor Who on TV where people have favourite eras or favourite stories from different era’s, and those books are like the first few William Hartnell stories which are great but still have some moments that jar with what came later…
I tried reading Mort, but it’s very… dense. While I do enjoy the occasional book with flowery, descriptive language, I got a quarter of the way through it and no real plot happened.
To each their own!
I find the overall plot is usually secondary to Pratchett using it as a means to talk about whatever. Or cracking absurdly good jokes. And while the plots can be good, Pratchett is really about the journey.
Ah friend, may i interest you in some nice meat pies? Currently two for the price of three. Black crunchy bits included.
deleted by creator
Less … bigoted? Were there themes of bigotry in Harry Potter that I missed? Or are you simply looking for a better-regarded author?
The way house elves are handled and the very stereotypical names come to mind.
Chang aside, Finnegan’s an exceptionally awful choice. As someone only technically alive and a world away during the Troubles, I assumed it was an oversight. I have since learned just how much an English adult would have to overlook to accidentally settle on the only perceptibly Irish character (edit: other than the leprechauns) having a nasty habit of causing explosions and trying to get ahold of whiskey.
If thats the level at which you take offense, good luck finding anything worth reading.
There is a big gap between not tolerating and supporting bigotry and being personally offended by something.
This is a really great distinction that I feel like the right wing is incapable of understanding because everything in their world view revolves around how they feel, so they just assume everyone else is just like them that way.
Sure, but in this context it makes little difference. If your filter is broad enough to encompass names like Dobby and Winky, you’re not gonna find a lot. The whole concept of a house elf is to make a point about how slavery is bad in the first place. Either i’m missing something or this is a prime example of how people end up living in a bubble where only their own ideology bounces around inside of it
[Hermione] explained the Society for the Promotion of Elfish Welfare to a bemused Ron and Harry, saying that when they joined, the society will have three members. Ron protested that the House-elves are happy as they are, but eventually joins.
Hermione managed to get several students, such as Neville Longbottom, to join (paying a fee of two Sickles), though they only did so to stop her from badgering them. These students included a reluctant Ron Weasley (who thought S.P.E.W was a joke because its name reminded him of gagging) and an indifferent Harry Potter.
She also offered it to Hagrid, but he refused as well, saying that the elves liked to work. Fred and George Weasley also put in that the house elves were happy to work at Hogwarts.
Becoming infuriated with Hermione’s “obsession” with the Society, Ron Weasley started calling the group “spew” and, on occasion parodied the name by inventing S.P.U.G., “Society for the Protection of Ugly Goblins”. Hermione angrily replied to this by pointing out that goblins, unlike house-elves, were capable of defending themselves against wizards on their own.
Around 28 June 2011, when a Hogwarts student noticed a S.P.E.W. badge amidst Winky’s stuff, Winky explained the organisation to them and how house-elves should be ashamed of it.
Taken from the wiki. The house elves were seen as happy to be slaves, and any attempt to free them was both unnatural and misguided. If you’re looking for a more in-depth review of why the Harry Potter series was problematic, Shaun made a video about it about a year ago, and he actually (re)read the books before talking about it, unlike you or I. The section on slavery begins at 37:47.
Well that’s kinda my point though. If you look at it trying to find things to be offended about, you’ll find them. They are non-human creatures, hermione essentially tries to force her morals on them despite their entire being wanting this lifestyle. This isn’t a case of poor elves being forced into slavery, in the context of this world, this is what they are and what they want.
It’s not saying slavery is a good thing, or a bad thing, but forcing beings to do things to fit your worldview is more immoral than letting it be. Granted, slavery is not quite the best method to make that point. But if you cannot accept a reality within a story without casting some real world agenda on it, you’re gonna have a bad time. I do find it interesting that creatures being themselves is more problematic than all of the murder, torture, abuse and pain the characters experience.
But yeah, i can see why at first sight, someone might side with hermione if they don’t think about it in the context of the story world. I’m also not saying this is Rowling’s perspective, id rather avoid her as a person. But i do like the series, despite the many story inconsistencies, which frankly are a much larger problem with enjoying the stories than some wrongthink.I think many of the best stories make you see the world differently. I’ve read many books by authors with horrible worldviews, but because i enjoy getting many perspectives on the world, as long as the story gives something to think about, im happy with it.
In conclusion: im a white male slave apologist and i should be cancelled. oh and i probably support trump too. i must be really dumb and brainwashed if i enjoy a book about wizards with a character named “Cho Chang” or whatever else is in your videos.
I do find it interesting that creatures being themselves is more problematic than all of the murder, torture, abuse and pain the characters experience.
I don’t even know what you’re referring to here. Are you thinking that the abuse the house elves are subjected to is not as bad as them “wanting” to be enslaved?
as long as the story gives something to think about, im happy with it.
I’m not convinced. You don’t seem to really want to think about the story. We’re shown, very clearly, that at least some of the elves want to be free, but the very next time they’re brought up we’re told “no, elves were born to be slaves. Slavery is their natural state, don’t question it or try to change anything,” which just might be more indicative of the author injecting her worldview than a good point about respecting others’ cultures.
In conclusion: im a white male slave apologist and i should be cancelled. oh and i probably support trump too. i must be really dumb and brainwashed if i enjoy a book about wizards with a character named “Cho Chang” or whatever else is in your videos.
Your persecution fetish is showing.
They’re probably talking about the one black character being named Shackleford. It’s fucking stupid.
For pleasantness and YA high fantasy vibe Le Guin’s Earthsea Cycle is great.
For wizard school with a much more mature tone R.F. Kuang’s Babel is a great read. Warning though it is much darker and heavier, so prepare yourself emotionally haha.
EDIT: was recommended that I give a heavier content warning to Babel which is fair. While it is thrown around as an HP alternative it is emotionally harrowing, has some extremely violent and disturbing sections, and is generally focused on depicting the horrors of colonialism. A good read, but prepare yourself going in and don’t expect it to be quaint or pleasant.
Just to add a couple of thoughts to this.
Earthsea is often described as being rather mature despite being YA. I agree. There’s a clarity and immediacy to Le Guin’s writing style that cuts straight to the point while also providing clear images and characters which is combined with deep and arguably universal themes and sometimes nice allegory.
Additional to this, the series goes or progresses in surprising directions. As is so often the case, Le Guin didn’t intend to write as many books as she did, but used the opportunity to do interesting or personal things with each book. While there’s a continuity throughout the whole series, it’s not a simple or single story but rather multiple stories with large or important intersections. You could for instance stop any time you like and not really miss out on any satisfying climactic ending.
Tehanu was my favourite and it’s so good and so different from the previous books.
For Kuang I agree that they are generally enjoyable reads (or rather, exciting or suspenseful, I suppose) but I would strongly hesitate to put them into a recommendation looking for quaint and pleasant.
Her books go fairly detailed into gore and excesses of violence and sexual abuse, more so for her earlier works. So - good reads but come prepared.
Yes I think Babel is a little lighter on gorey excess than the Poppy Wars (which I haven’t read but my partner has described in detail to me). Which is to be expected for books designed to depict the horrors of colonialism.
But mainly mentioning it with a content warning since it’s often tossed around as an HP replacement. I think the first half of Babel captures a similar “wonders of magic school” vibe, although with a lot more caveats about how inequitable the entire system is. It does get extremely harrowing by the end so maybe should include a clearer warning in my post.
I think that’s completely fair!
light spoilers for Babel
And I also think you hit the nail on the head with both the way it introduces the ‘magical’ world and then pulls the rug out underneath you and protagonist in quite a distressing fashion. Pretty clever actually!
Brandon Sanderson Cosmere fits the bill and is super easy to get into.
The Mistborn series might fit your description the most. But my personal favorite is The Stormlight Archive. The Stormlight Archive is what got me back into reading.
What makes the Cosmere so easy and enjoyable to get into is that different series are only vaguely connected. They take place in the same universe but on different worlds or realms. But since they share the same creation “myth” there are similarities between these worlds. When getting started a lot of the connections feel more like an easter egg. An easter egg that teaches you about the history of the universe.
But each series is basically self contained. Most characters and people aren’t even aware of the existance of these different worlds. The focus is mostly on the specific world. Meaning you don’t have to worry about reading order or missing out. Heck, if you don’t enjoy a specific series you can even skip it without losing too much.
There are a few unpublished or planned books that will focus on the connection of these worlds, on characters that travel between them. They will probably be the most enjoyable if you read everything in the Cosmere.
Sanderson has some amazing books, but I wouldn’t describe any of them as quant or pleasant. They’re pretty dark.
His Dark Materials
I got the trilogy as a used box set recently and I really wanted to love them but just didn’t click for me. Don’t read a lot of YA now anyway so maybe missed my chance, definitely see the appeal though and think it’s a good fit for OP’s request!
Agreed, especially now that the second trilogy is underway. Hoping the next book follows the same more mature progression and can wrap up the story in a satisfying way.
An obvious choice for me is The Hobbit. It hits a completely different and more adventurous feeling to LoTR, while still hinting at the lore that would follow. Sometimes I think I might prefer to LoTR in general tbh.
You will be offended for your entire life if you can’t separate art from artist
On the other hand, Rawlings uses her success as a public validation for her bigotry. So it is fair to opt out of supporting her artistry.
Secondly, bigotry is layered in her books.
- family is better than being free of abuse
- slavery is funny, also they like it
- goblins are a terrible caricature of Jewish people
- general acceptance of eugenics in daily society
Ok there’s a bit here I disagree with.
-
I feel like one of the messages I got out of HP is that chosen family means more than given family. Such as when Harry gets sweater from Mrs Weasley and nothing from Dursleys
-
Just because slavery exists in the story, doesn’t mean it’s treated positively. There’s an entire revolutionary movement for them in one of the books and Hermione is active in it. And Hermione is often a pretty safe moral compass.
-
No defense of the Goblins, this one is pretty bad.
-
Again, just because this idea exists doesn’t mean it’s supported. In fact, the bad guys are the ones always supporting it so it’s pretty clearly a villainous idea.
Your arguments remind me of the illiterate folk who claim that Lolita supports pedophilia when the opposite is true. Just because something is present in a story doesn’t mean it’s presented as a good thing, or something worth supporting.
For the record, I do not support JKR and kind of wish HP would fade into obscurity, even if it was a defining moment of my childhood/generation.
Hermione is constantly made fun of for being anti slavery and her movement does nothing. The whole thing is treated like a joke, a pie in the sky fancy of someone who doesn’t understand how the real world works.
Which is true in real life too so I don’t see the issue. Think of climate activists and how they’re treated in the US. Or those supporting socialist policies like right to housing or food. They are treated as an absolute joke, just for wanting to do the right thing at the expense of those in power.
If I had to pick a character who does the right thing more often than anyone, it’s probably Hermione.
-
What if I am not offended at all, but am very content with my decision not to consume art by certain artists?
Miss out on a lot of good art then
Depends on how many artists work I choose to avoid.
Right now there is one.
Her books meant a lot to me through my youth but I don’t really miss any of the newer stuff that I don’t consume.
And there are enough other books to read.And before I get called hypocritical for not avoiding other, arguably worse, artists, it’s not like I actively seek out stuff to boycott.
Rowling just actively inserted herself into a public conversation and now that I lost all respect for her I can’t really enjoy her art anymore.That’s too bad for me, but the movies turned to shit anyway, so I guess I just stick to art, that brings me more joy.
Why I would separate the artist from what they made? I’m interested in what they have to say about the world. That’s the point of art.
It’s not just content to make me happy until the next hit. Like, it has meaning.
What if the art has nothing to do with the artist’s views?
For example, Burzum
I think we have very different ways of enjoying art. I don’t really understand how it’s possible for at to have nothing with the artist’s views, unless it were totally random. Actually, even that would be saying something.
But I get the feeling that we look at art pretty differently.
Go back to bed, Orson Scott Card.
The Discworld series might be what you’re looking for.
The Amber Chronicles by Zelazny
Branden Sanderson has a bunch of good series that fit the description.
Love seeing the Chronicles of Amber get more love these days.
Raymond E. Feist’s Magician series was quite engaging, I thought… though I read it many many years ago.
The Bartimeaus trilogy was really good
Dunno about it being quaint/pleasant lore, but it’s definitely a good and funny series
The David Eddings books are excellent.
I’m re-reading them again and quite like them, but OP might not - depending on what they consider bigotry and how sensitive they are. It was written in the 80s (Belgariad, anyway) and sensibilities have moved on a bit.
Especially ethnicity is very simplistic in the Belgariad - these races are mostly good, these races are mostly bad, each one has a pithy stereotype and people seem to behave more or less like theirs dictates. That seems unfortunate, but in-universe this is justified - the races really are significantly different through selection (7 gods each picked their people), breeding and religious pressure. One of the gods is the Big Bad, making for an “evil race”. The story is not quite that black and white, but it’s also only as complicated as needed.
I think taking it as commentary is a big mistake - at worst it’s still just kinda lazy, IMO - but some people will likely get offended by it anyway. (“This will probably offend Polgara, but that’s too bad. If it wasn’t this, she’d just find something else.”)
I would still recommend it to anyone who likes irreverent (for the 80s) High Fantasy - the story is bog standard YA Fantasy/coming-of-age etc., but then the story isn’t really the point. While not Tolkien or Sanderson level worldbuilding, it certainly fits the lore part.
Because I’m on a similar search and have never heard of Eddings, I immediately googled him and found that he and his wive spend a year in prison because the abused their adopted son. It sounds to me this is something OP would take into consideration…
Wow, I totally missed that…
“these details did not resurface in media coverage of the couple during their successful joint career as authors, only returning to public attention several years after both had died.”
She died in 2007, he died in 2009.
His Dark Materials aka the Golden Compass books
The Daevabad Trilogy by S.A. Chakraborty was very enjoyable. Still YA, but engaging throughout.
Percy Jackson… kind of? Still a tad childish.
