I didn’t want to direct this question to Americans specifically because, at this point, other countries have shown support to Israel in one or the other way. If my country was financing this, I would be taking the streets. Shit, I’m right now in the hospital but all I can think about is protesting anyway just to feel I did something to stop this madness.
Are you doing something about this? Are you feeling unsettled? How do you feel about all this mess?
EDIT: So, buying Chinese stuff takes the USS Gerald Ford to Gaza’s coast. Also, TIL that that chocolate my cousin gave me when she was 20 and I was 5, (delicious stuff!) made me a slavist-ish. The fact remains, this genocide is being paid and supported by taxpayers money; of course, I was hoping that most of us didn’t pay taxes wishing for this. Thank you all for your responses, some of them were hard to swallow.
Since you probably buy stuff made in China like everyone else, you tell us.
What does China have to do with anything?
“it’s not whataboutism when I do it”
If you read the thread, or at least my responses, you would probably made a more conscious effort to answer my question.
The point is that you’ve made an insulting and reductive statement that borders on propaganda in its presentation. Obviously, no one would be pro genocide but that’s not a side that actually is available to participate actively with either.
This question accomplishes nothing but lets people virtue signal to each other. Feel better now?
How did you feel insulted? I’m not saying any citizen is guilty of anything. I do not think so. But this is happening with their money. All I’m saying is representatives of these countries should know and follow whatever the people they govern thinks they should do. If you feel insulted, maybe, just maybe that’s on you.
No.
“How do you feel about financing a genocide?”
The statement says the reader is financing a genocide in its phrasing. It’s insulting by implication. It’s like if I asked you, “If you’ve stopped beating your wife yet?” It’s inflammatory by its nature, and I’d be right to feel offended if I didn’t recognize it for the flame bate it was.
Thank you for saying it better than I could have.
China meets the manufacturing needs for most of the world, it’s economically not realistic to boycott them
That said, we still should boycott them, at least in principle.
It’s really not that hard to boycott China, people just don’t do it because they’re selfish and would rather support an authoritarian regime than stand for what’s right
I haven’t eaten any cooked hot food since the HK protests because every appliance is made or parts majority made in China
I will eat sliced bread and beans the rest of my life to own the Chinese
Beans is one thing, but cold beans??? That’s a step too far, I now uncritically support Xi.
Psh. You posuer. I’ve converted my life savings to yuan notes and am now keeping them under the bed to reduce the circulation of cash in the Chinese economy.
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We paid them slave wages to make things for us but they didn’t play fair and learned how to make things for themselves
In general I agree with you, but reality is also more nuanced. A blanket boycott can often harm the people you want to protect. A common question in the debate about Palestine and Uyghurstan and boycotts is what to do about companies that give equal opportunities to people from the targeted communities - i.e. companies that give jobs in the same terms to both Israelis and Palestinians or the Han Chinese and Uyghur people.
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Tell me you haven’t read any serious report about the situation in Uyghurstan (can we please drop the chinese “new territory” colonial designation? I don’t think it helps anyone, including the Chinese position) without telling me you never read a serious report about the situation in Uyghurstan. There are several identified cases of the use of slave labor, but there are also lots of companies that had credible audits to show that at least on a superficial level they treat everyone fairly - and a huge chunk of places where the situation is as clear as mud.
Personally, I would choose to focus on things I ostensibly have some amount of control over. As an American, I have no effect whatsoever on Chinese laws or policy. However, I allegedly have power over my own country’s laws and policies, so I choose to expend my energy trying to end slave labor in America, which is legal if the person has been convicted of a crime.
Why would I spend the precious little free time and energy I have (between making enough money to pay rent and eat food) on something out of my control?
I just love all these creative ways people find to say that they’re imbeciles without saying it explicitly.
I have been boycotting them for best of my ability for the last 6 years.
I think problems usually include airplanes or using car where it is not clear what components is chinese made.
The one I got stuck with was a PS5 controller. I thought Sony electronics fully made in Japan to later find out they sourced things to china.
I mean, if you’ve purchased chocolate in the last century, you’re supporting slavery by your logic. Same for many other commodities, but most people know about diamonds. You could be protesting your entire life, justifiably, about many things. Most people in the world cannot consume without inadvertently causing harm and suffering somewhere in the world. It’s nice that you’re now thinking about it though.
I believe you are taking my question out of context. I didn’t start thinking about this just now. Ultimately, not every company owns representatives in the state. Yes, I believe we should be careful about what we consume and who’s behind those products, but it needs to be in the power of the states to control the best practices to produce goods; it is not reasonable for an individual, for one citizen, to ask for this. It is different with our governments, we can and should demand for them to represent us with dignity. As individuals, we can demand accountability for their decisions taken in our names. Companies don’t represent us, governments do.
Leading question.
Edit: For an actual “answer”, some people are in fact taking it to the streets. For your favorite country you can search for it and if you don’t want to do that here’s an article for the US. While you may argue that we should’ve expected this, at the time of financing all we know is that there was a first strike and people were angry. Now it’s different, at least in my local circle.
Either way, this should not be a question for asklemmy. It should be in the politics community or something.
Loaded question.
rhetorical “question”
My country burns money, resources and human lives to enforce its hegemony on the other side of the planet while I only have health insurance through my crappy job and the infrastructure is crumbling everywhere. How do you think I feel?
Not too hot, I guess. Thanks for taking the time.
Many are just trying to make the best out of what we have and it often feels like we have such little impact on these things happening across the country, let along in other parts of the world. The world population approaches 8 billion. Our impact is often meaningful in some way, but incredibly limited overall.
How can someone truly help with something across the world, like Ukraine/Russia and now Israel/Gaza, when conflict is constant and many also have to simply survive, in the face of entities that are capable of spending trillions of dollars.
No problemo
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Keep posting of that’s all you can do right now.Great quote you made me think of.
The truth hurts, but silence kills. -Mark Twain
I feel that taking one side over the other without allowing for any nuance in that complicated clusterfuck over there is disingenuous. I feel very sorry for all civilians caught between the many murderous assholes in that region, but I can’t fully support one group while completely condemning the other. Acting like it’s a black and white issue is so very wrong and not helpful.
But our government did pick a side. So what is our obligation, then?
Let your delegate know that you wish for more nuance, that instead of supporting the state of Israel, that it’d be better to side with the civilians on all sides who are dying in this messed up conflict.
Well put and i completely agree!
Which side is committing genocide? That’s the side to oppose in any fight.
Not good. All I can do is vote. Until they take that away.
Do you feel represented by one of the political parties you may have in your country? Would they act in a general agreement with your own convictions?
I do not. Not one iota. That being said, I’m an American who’s been around the world twice and speaks multiple languages. I consider myself reasonably left, but in this country I am extreme left. Our politicians are bought and paid for by lobbyists. The few who tend to be honest are either marginalized or silenced.
My vote counts for nothing. I will still vote in earnest.
This is why I started to support rank choice voting like they have in many countries in Europe. It’s not perfect but a nice step forward from what we have.
I’m assuming you meant ranked choice, but the mental image of your typo is quite entertaining.
Don’t they have tank choice in places like Russia, North Korea, Iran? Thanks for pointing that out and your welcome for the laugh.
I’ll take a T-38 please
Agreed. Ranked choice is one of the few ways to vote with your conscience.
Contact counts for way more than voting.
Contact your representative, they don’t know who voted for them, they do know about the people who care enough to call though.
I’m an anarchist with no political representation. My country (US) has never been in agreement with my convictions. I don’t expect it to in my lifetime, but I am disappointed it isn’t even headed in a non-authoritarian direction.
I’m an anarchist with no political representation. My country (US) has never been in agreement with my convictions.
Well this shows that not everything about the US is bad.
I’m Libertarian and there are candidates that seem way more up my alley than the Big Two, but it never gets much traction.
Also while I think our foreign involvement should be minimal, I don’t think unceremoniously dropping those connections is wise. I think if the State Dept were following my orders, it could take about 50 years to get to the level of foreign interference I think we should be doing.
DISGUSTING.
Prime minister of my country supports Israel because “they’re allowed to defend themselves”.
What is happening now, has nothing to do with defending themselves, it’s their mission to genocide. I cannot believe the entire world is fine with it. Western but also Arabian countries unfortunately.
In my opinion, “justice” does not exist. It never did. Because it seems the law doesn’t apply to Presidents and a country that purely stands for genocide.
It’s never just been the US - Israel doesn’t just have a whole bunch of enablers… said enablers also back the very idea of a modern-day Israel.
France, the UK, Germany, Australia, Apartheid-era South Africa all played their part in helping with all this - I guess the fact that it’s all countries with histories that are deeply entwined with white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism is purely coincidence, eh?
Did I read this correctly? You just tried to say that Israel’s supporters are antisemitic? How’d you connect those two dots?
You just tried to say that Israel’s supporters are antisemitic?
No. I never tried to say it.
I just plain said it - the countries that enable Israel is as antisemitic and white supremacist as they have always been. They’ve been hiding it since WW2 - but, as the resurgence of mask-off far-right ideology in the US and Europe proves, it’s still the same old west.
The west’s support for Israel has always been antisemitic - dumping European Jewish people in Palestine was literally one the Nazi’s potential solutions to the “Jewish Question”. It’s no secret - just mundane history that westerners doesn’t like talking about.
Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism - the whole reason these white supremacist and antisemitic societies fantasized about a modern-day “Israel” was simply because they did not believe Jewish people belonged in their precious “white” societies.
You don’t have to think about it for very long to see it for yourself - who were the people that made it so difficult for Jewish people to “belong” in western societies? If the US was so friendly and welcoming to Jewish people as the US wants to pretend it is (prominent Jewish people like Steven Spielberg and Noam Chomsky will happily tell you about US-style antisemitism), why would Jewish people need a “homeland” in the middle-east?
No. I never tried to say it. I just plain said it…
I’d like to point out to folks that whatever your stance on the issue may be, this statement (taken by itself) is pretty funny.
Please excuse the interruption and continue.
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Either you replied to the wrong comment, or I’m misunderstanding yours
Ah so it would seem. Sorry.
No worries. These things happen.
In the US, speaking the truth about the Israel-Palestine ::cough::Palestinian genocide::cough:: war will get you cancelled by AIPAC astroturfers and useful idiots who just cancel who they’re told to cancel. That’s how they (the AIPAC, the military industrial complex, and AIPAC-run film industry…if you don’t believe me, why was Harvey Weinstein so friendly with ex-Mossad agents that he was able to use them against his opponents?) manufacture consent among normal people these days.
Additionally, 35 US states have anti-bds laws on the books punishing US citizens that choose not to buy products from Israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws In many of those US states you can be fired from government jobs for refusing to buy Israeli products in your own personal life.
I desire the end of America and indeed all capitalist states, ideally before they slide even further into fascism in the near future. Death to the Israeli state, and death to any states that support it.
The only thing I’m dissatisfied with is their free hand with bombing civilians along with military targets. I can understand that Israel is angry, and rightfully so, but they fancy themselves a western country, being better than terrorist Hamas. They can’t let their anger take control. Bombing civilians undermines their legitimatecy, I think they should try and be as surgical as possible, like they did in previous rounds of fighting. Other than that, I fully support their desire to root out Hamas. Though conquering Gaza only has any merit to it if they decide to stay and govern it themselves, otherwise Hamas would just rise up again.
I think they should try and be as surgical as possible
How about this, remove the blockade on Gaza, give everyone there citizenship and become a secular state.
like they did in previous rounds of fighting
When has Israel not leveled civilian buildings? Have you not seen charts comparing Israeli casualties to Palestinian ones?
I can understand that Israel is angry, and rightfully so
I think Palestinians should be the ones who should be angry for the way Israel has treated them since inception.
I have so much to say over this comment. I’ll try to be concise.
remove the blockade on Gaza, give everyone there citizenship and become a secular state
- Israel doesn’t trust Hamas. The blockade, which, mind you, is also enforced by Egypt, is meant to limit the group’s ability to procure weapons. Water, food, fuel and other necessities are usually provided by both Israel and international help.
- Neither Gazans want Israeli citizenship, nor Israel wants Gazans to be its citizens.
- Religious and secular political forces quarrel in Israel daily. It can’t just “become” secular. A big portion of Israelis don’t want it to.
When has Israel not leveled civilian buildings? Have you not seen charts comparing Israeli casualties to Palestinian ones?
- If not for Iron Dome, Israeli casualties would be way higher.
- Any civilian casualties are to be condemned. Yet, you must remember that Hamas likes to base itself under hospitals, schools, mosques. Not only that, but Gaza is also very densly populated. They’re some 2.5 million people over 365km squared. It’s very difficult to carry out any strikes without damaging hundreds of people. Yet, in the 2021 conflict, only 260 Gazans died as a result of strikes, despite hundreds if not thousands of shellings. Israel claims that at least 200 of those were militians. If that is not surgical, I don’t know what is.
I think Palestinians should be the ones who should be angry for the way Israel has treated them since inception.
Read a little about the history of the conflict, as well as about peace talks and different offers that Israel made.
If not for Iron Dome, Israeli casualties would be way higher.
Ok, why not give Palestinian their own iron dome?
Any civilian casualties are to be condemned. Yet, you must remember that Hamas likes to base itself under hospitals, schools, mosques. Not only that, but Gaza is also very densly populated. They’re some 2.5 million people over 365km squared. It’s very difficult to carry out any strikes without damaging hundreds of people. Yet, in the 2021 conflict, only 260 Gazans died as a result of strikes, despite hundreds if not thousands of shellings. Israel claims that at least 200 of those were militians. If that is not surgical, I don’t know what is.
Kill yourself
Religious and secular political forces quarrel in Israel daily. It can’t just “become” secular. A big portion of Israelis don’t want it to.
And? Why is that a reason for Palestinians to be treated like second class ‘citizens’.
Water, food, fuel and other necessities are usually provided by both Israel and international help.
Why does Gaza have a huge electricity deficit? Why is their water polluted? Why does Israel deliberately limit food to keep Gazans on a ‘diet’.
Read a little about the history of the conflict, as well as about peace talks and different offers that Israel made.
You are a zionist pig and you should fucking kill yourself.
Israel doesn’t trust Hamas.
Then maybe Israel shouldn’t have funded them.
The blockade, which, mind you, is also enforced by Egypt
The US-backed dictatorship in Egypt is doing the US’s bidding? You don’t say…
Any civilian casualties are to be condemned.
Israel hasn’t made much distinction between combatants and non-combatants since 1949 - can’t blame Hamas for playing by Israel’s rules.
Yet, you must remember that Hamas likes to base itself under hospitals, schools, mosques.
Right, because there are vast tracts of unused real estate in one of the most densely populated areas on the planet, eh?
If that is not surgical, I don’t know what is.
There is no such thng as a “surgical” artillery shell, Clyde. And as for the claim itself… the IDF is no more trustworthy than the Apartheid security forces were.
Fuck Israel.
Not only that, but Gaza is also very densly populated. They’re some 2.5 million people over 365km squared.
So weird that Palestinians would choose to live like this without the influence of any other party. They even built a huge wall around themselves to keep other people out.
See I’m against that. I think that individuals and groups have a right to be armed. Putting a blockade around a people to prevent them from getting weapons is a violation of those people’s rights.
Wat?
Why even post?
Are you going to edit later?
This is Pig Poop Balls, which shows that this person disagrees with my opinion, to put it mildly.
I must have blocked whoever posted that.
Yay!
Ah, thank you!
I would rather not have known, hahaha
I did not know people replied with that, thought it was a bot/troll.
Are you satisfied about they having a nuclear arsenal after this? It’s not a rhetorical question, I’m actually interested in your thoughts about this.
I don’t know, what does it matter? They don’t even acknowledge it, nevermind about using it. The only instance in which they might use their nukes is the Samson Option, which looks like something any country would do.
It matters because it changes all logics in a war. In this case, I think it matters because you described them as angry, bombing civilians along with military targets. If they don’t differentiate one of the other, the only thing stopping them from nuking the Gaza stripe is probably the inconvenience of being too close.
Ah, I see. No, they’re not that stupid. Even if nuking Gaza didn’t affect them because of proximity, they wouldn’t. They rely on American help too much, and struggle as they do with international forces. Nuking Gaza would leave them ostricized and heavily sanctioned, if not invaded.
Or nuked
the only thing stopping them from nuking the Gaza stripe
The politics understander has logged on
but they fancy themselves a western country
They are. This is what the west is.
Looking at the geopolitics and many sides of the conflict, wouldn’t other better and bigger groups join in if it comes close to the annihilation of Hamas?
Looking at Hezbollah and Iran, joining in as a minimum.
This would start making the war closer to WWIII.
Anyone with more information or confidence want to correct or add detail?
This attack will energize the populations of a lot of middle-eastern regimes that have been playing footsie with Israel over the last few decades - so yeah… both in the long and short term things are looking shaky for Israel. Would it lead to WW3? Unlikely… even if Israel’s geopolitical reach and importance is curbed by this, the US already has another thug regime in the area that can do it’s dirty work for it - Saudi Arabia.
I love genocide. I just wish there was some way I could actually vote for it. Instead I’m stuck voting for the closest option which does none of what I want but fortunately both sides support Israel killing Muslims in mass.
I’ll put this here because people are dumb as hell /s
Sometimes I feel like people forget that Israel was actually attacked.
Still doesn’t justify commiting a genocide
Israel has been attacking Gaza and destroying Palestinian lives for the last 75 years. How is resistance not justified? Zionist idiot.
If my country was financing this, I would be taking the streets.
If I took to the streets over this, I would make protestors look bad because I have no experience, no social skills, no support network, and I’m a terrible rhetorician, especially when I am angry. Additionally, my family is fast to call the cops and has promised me that they would cooperate with the police if I ever got on their radar, so my presence would be a security culture issue.
Are you doing something about this?
Well, I have chosen not to work for companies that participate in such genocides, which is not a completely vacuous statement because they have sent me recruitment emails to design their fucking missiles! But frankly, I am fighting my own battles right now. I am desperately trying to find work. I am constantly fighting insurers to pay for the few times I ever muster up the courage to use my insurance. I am fighting my own goddamn family who will throw me to the fucking wolves if I can’t afford the rent. I am fighting the urge to walk off into the woods and fucking die of embarrassment at having accomplished so little at my age.
So no, I’m not really doing anything. I’ll cop to that. I’ve copped to worse, and at least for now I can live with being a hypocrite. Sorry if that’s unsatisfactory.
Are you feeling unsettled? How do you feel about all this mess?
I fucking HATE America, I fucking HATE world governments, and this just adds to the list of reasons why. Unsettled doesn’t even begin to cover it.
