Hehe, the actual “old internet” resembles the fediverse of today, it’s what we thought the internet was supposed to be back then. Once corporations found the internet, we got the bullshit we have today.
More instances will need to spin up. People aren’t used to having choice so it’ll confuse them at first. Same thing with Linux distributions, people aren’t used to having choice so they don’t know how to go about comparing what’s on offer. They’ll accept making choices at the food market, but are too confused when it comes to OS’s and social media, lol.
It’s bold of you to assume that I can handle choices at the food market. I am paralyzed by the prospect of choosing between twelve different kinds of sandwich bread. [/s… mostly]
My issue with picking an instance was less that it was confusing and more that I could tell there was going to be a certain amount of internal culture in any instance I picked, and I didn’t know how to interpret that until I spent some time browsing. Everyone says it doesn’t matter if you follow/participate in your local communities, which is true, but it’s still nice when you can.
Sure, but it’ll be the same story all over again. The big platform will be ruined and the alternative option will be smaller and therefore not as good (since user base directly contributes to quality when it comes to community-based platforms; it’s the users who post all the content, so fewer users = less content).
There’s something to be said for smaller communities, if you are looking for connection rather than just raw content. If you really prefer a larger community, that’s fair, but I don’t think everyone is going to feel the need to hop onto a commercial instance just because it’s bigger. I used to like some really tiny forums back in the day, and I don’t think they would have been better if they had been bigger. They were fine just as they were.
Email is often drawn as something similar to the fediverse. … but if you’ve ever tried to run a small Mailserver, you’ll quickly find that “the big corps” have created a walled garden that’ll keep the “small fish” out.
It’s all based on what the big players view as your “reputation”. This is based on proprietary metrics (usually how many emails you send), but your reputation will determine if the email is delivered or not.
… but the point is that one big corps consolidate and reach the size (in terms of traffic/content) like Hotmail, Gmail, yahoo, etc - they will not hesitate to squeeze out the smaller fediverse fish to force them into paying to use the bigger pond.
Well if instances keep defederating each other, it does matter. Plus there’s the question of stability. Sure, you could make your account on some tiny niche instance, but what if the guy running it decides he’s had enough and terminates it? What happens to your account, your post history?
If you care about your account and your post history, you’re free to run you own instance. People are also working on mechanisms to sync community subscriptions between accounts, which would at least help the UX navigating multiple accounts. Lemmy also has an API that I’m sure users will be looking to create services to backup your content as well, if something like that doesn’t already exist.
As for defederation, I’m only aware of these major reasons and all of them are legitimate:
Nazis
NSFL/CP
Sourcing illegal content (illegal from the defederating hosts side, and this really lends to the above two as well)
I’ve been pondering this very reason. It’s compelling for me to make my own instance so I have my own little slice of fediverse to call my own, and have access to the greater picture of it too.
Reddit became part of the shitty second season / crappy sequel era of the internet.
Also, can we not call the fediverse “Lemmy”? It’s.a disservice to what we all are vying for here and sets us up to land right back into the same bullshit.
Interaction was on non-Web-based systems, mostly distributed
This was mostly pre-2000s and tended to go into decline in the 1990s or 2000s as Web-based platforms focusing on ease of use picked up users. Many of these were distributed.
Usenet (decline as a discussion forum dating to maybe late 1990s, though lots of pirated information is still transferred via it)
IRC was great back then. The other day I jumped on Undernet because I was feeling nostalgic. It’s still running but didn’t have much activity. The fact that it still exists made me smile.
Yeah, I did more-or-less the same on each of the Big Three networks. Not that they’re Reddit alternatives, but I thought that I’d at least take another look. They are still churning away, but the userbase is far smaller than it used to be.
I need like a crash course on how this all works. I was so used to subreddits and I’m finding myself lost. I’d love to be a pilot of gardening/brewing/MTG subreddit style thing here but again, I need a crash course
Think of it as fortuitous timing. Reddit is the old internet. Lemmy is the new world. You are one of its early movers. Come fill this place.
Hehe, the actual “old internet” resembles the fediverse of today, it’s what we thought the internet was supposed to be back then. Once corporations found the internet, we got the bullshit we have today.
I’m still a little concerned what happens once instances start getting real traffic though.
Same, but I am optimistic that decentralization will lead to better options for dealing with the problems as they happen.
Might be unpolished, but at least it is ours.
More instances will need to spin up. People aren’t used to having choice so it’ll confuse them at first. Same thing with Linux distributions, people aren’t used to having choice so they don’t know how to go about comparing what’s on offer. They’ll accept making choices at the food market, but are too confused when it comes to OS’s and social media, lol.
It’s bold of you to assume that I can handle choices at the food market. I am paralyzed by the prospect of choosing between twelve different kinds of sandwich bread. [/s… mostly]
My issue with picking an instance was less that it was confusing and more that I could tell there was going to be a certain amount of internal culture in any instance I picked, and I didn’t know how to interpret that until I spent some time browsing. Everyone says it doesn’t matter if you follow/participate in your local communities, which is true, but it’s still nice when you can.
Too true.
On the plus side, many spurned app-developers seem to be checking out Lemmy and kbin as well.
History repeats itself. The fediverse is going to go downhill too once it gets big enough for corporations to notice it. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Except the code is open source, no matter how many corps invade the Fediverse, there will always be an option.
Sure, but it’ll be the same story all over again. The big platform will be ruined and the alternative option will be smaller and therefore not as good (since user base directly contributes to quality when it comes to community-based platforms; it’s the users who post all the content, so fewer users = less content).
There’s something to be said for smaller communities, if you are looking for connection rather than just raw content. If you really prefer a larger community, that’s fair, but I don’t think everyone is going to feel the need to hop onto a commercial instance just because it’s bigger. I used to like some really tiny forums back in the day, and I don’t think they would have been better if they had been bigger. They were fine just as they were.
Eh, don’t be so sure.
Email is often drawn as something similar to the fediverse. … but if you’ve ever tried to run a small Mailserver, you’ll quickly find that “the big corps” have created a walled garden that’ll keep the “small fish” out.
It’s all based on what the big players view as your “reputation”. This is based on proprietary metrics (usually how many emails you send), but your reputation will determine if the email is delivered or not.
You can find more information here.
… but the point is that one big corps consolidate and reach the size (in terms of traffic/content) like Hotmail, Gmail, yahoo, etc - they will not hesitate to squeeze out the smaller fediverse fish to force them into paying to use the bigger pond.
Sadly … this is just business as usual.
And users will facilitate that process by glomming on to certain instances thinking that it matters to which they belong
Well if instances keep defederating each other, it does matter. Plus there’s the question of stability. Sure, you could make your account on some tiny niche instance, but what if the guy running it decides he’s had enough and terminates it? What happens to your account, your post history?
If you care about your account and your post history, you’re free to run you own instance. People are also working on mechanisms to sync community subscriptions between accounts, which would at least help the UX navigating multiple accounts. Lemmy also has an API that I’m sure users will be looking to create services to backup your content as well, if something like that doesn’t already exist.
As for defederation, I’m only aware of these major reasons and all of them are legitimate:
The only thing a giant corporation could do is muddy the waters, but people who care about the future of Lemmy are working to prevent that https://wedistribute.org/2023/06/fedipact-blocking-meta/
I’ve been pondering this very reason. It’s compelling for me to make my own instance so I have my own little slice of fediverse to call my own, and have access to the greater picture of it too.
JOIN MY WEBRING!
Maybe the Fediverse’s logo should be a little animated gif a of a construction worker.
This page best view with: Netscape Navigator 3.0!
“Webring”… good lord, that takes me back. :)
We should call the fediverse Webrings 2.0
“Old Internet” - I like it!
The old internet was great. I had a lot of fun with the local bbs, irc, and telnet talkers. It was a simpler time.
Reddit became part of the shitty second season / crappy sequel era of the internet.
Also, can we not call the fediverse “Lemmy”? It’s.a disservice to what we all are vying for here and sets us up to land right back into the same bullshit.
Ehhh.
I’d timeline it something like this:
Interaction was on non-Web-based systems, mostly distributed
This was mostly pre-2000s and tended to go into decline in the 1990s or 2000s as Web-based platforms focusing on ease of use picked up users. Many of these were distributed.
Usenet (decline as a discussion forum dating to maybe late 1990s, though lots of pirated information is still transferred via it)
IRC, peaking around 2003 according to WP
Email (peaked later, in 2009, according to WP. Obviously still pretty healthy compared to the above two.
Web 2.0
People tend to shift towards interacting with each other on large websites; these tend to later acquire mobile apps to cater to smartphone users.
Facebook
YouTube
Twitter
Reddit (though a fair number of third-party clients did exist)
If the Fediverse manages to pick up a lot of people, it’s probably somewhat-closer to the first phase.
deleted by creator
IRC was great back then. The other day I jumped on Undernet because I was feeling nostalgic. It’s still running but didn’t have much activity. The fact that it still exists made me smile.
Yeah, I did more-or-less the same on each of the Big Three networks. Not that they’re Reddit alternatives, but I thought that I’d at least take another look. They are still churning away, but the userbase is far smaller than it used to be.
Old, Centralised Internet
I need like a crash course on how this all works. I was so used to subreddits and I’m finding myself lost. I’d love to be a pilot of gardening/brewing/MTG subreddit style thing here but again, I need a crash course
Unrelated, but love the username, even though I never finished the series.