- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
(does not reflect my opinion, just thought it looked funny)
Less hostile when in context.
Taken from a YouTube channel called Not Just Bikes.
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Cars are already subject to noise restrictions. So effectively loud cars are banned. There is just little enforcement for most of it.
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What does it matter if they aren’t enforceable?
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That may work to a point, people who get off on their noisy shits are more than willing to put in the work themselves.
Yep, 99% of the time that’s the case around here. Live next to a well trafficked road and have heard enough to identify a modded exhaust. It’s very rare that the loud assholes have stock exhausts, they usually put money into buying loud shit or just slice their old one off for good measure.
Also, even the modded exhausts wouldn’t be so bad if the drivers didn’t intentionally gun it just to make noise.
Then come the motorcycle groups, they’re the absolute worst. Even one is bad, but when a group of 50 travel through here on a quiet day it’s just… sad, enraging etc.
They’re the loudest we get around where I live, if ANYONE is breaking a noise ordinance it’s them, 50× over but I’ve never seen them pulled over or ticketed.
I don’t care if they’re loud, go do that on a “back road” where the houses are an acre away, don’t do it on a small street where babies are sleeping barely 20 feet away from you. At that volume, being that close they’d might as well knock on your door and scream in your face.
I don’t think you understand why some cars are louder than others
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BECAUSE THEY ARE STROOOOOONG dude! That’s why loud! I LIIIIKKKEE THE STRONG FAST MACHINE! Strong manly, fast manly, LOUD MANLY!
Amen brother. If your engine doesn’t make every dog in the neighborhood bark can you even call yourself a man? I wanna make every glass of water on the block shake like that scene in Jurassic park.
That’s not what homie is getting at.
Irritatingly loud cars don’t come from the manufacturer like that. When you buy a car there’s no “annoyingly loud” option.
People modify their cars. The objective is better performance, but the car will probably be louder.
In what world? Are you naive? AMG alone is thriving their business model on loud cars. There is luxury brands like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Königsegg which are loud by design. There is muscle cars from Ford, Corvette, Cadillac etc.etc. There is loud Audis, Porsche, BMWs, Mercedes. There es even a ridiculously loud Volkswagen Golf GTI or R.
Like what?!?!
Edit: they even having a sound check feature on their websites lmao (at least Mercedes)
Edit: for reference the Golf R has even a membrane build into to cockpit to amplify its sound to the passengers.
Let’s refocus the police funds of shooting or falsely arresting POC, and instead ticketing and enforcing the loud car situation.
Who needs cops? I believe CA passed a bill to trial automatic enforcement of this issue last year. Detects excessive noise and photographs the license plates just like speed cameras.
I’m waiting to see where they will trial it. I haven’t heard anything recently.
Agreed. Take 90+% of their funding, and use it for preventative measures instead.
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Is that true? They still send them out.
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This article says the opposite though.
Therefore, federal courts have affirmed the right of municipalities to use speeding and red light cameras. Additionally, lawsuits challenging the use of private companies to operate red light cameras have been dismissed or defeated.
I am not a lawyer and I have wondered about the constitutional questions of these. But according to this the courts have largely allowed them.
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Our po-po don’t shoot POC (generally) but we still have loud cars.
I know what I’m saying is not objective data, but where I live I hear a ton of motorcycles that are tweaked to remove the silencers and noise protections
I’ll say that so much of this is unnecessary or even BS. Ban loud cars because they’re annoying, that’s all that is necessary. Set a decibel limit and if you exceed it then you can be fined. Set time limits like when most people are sleeping so you can have loud cars at some more reasonable times and ban them when people aren’t expecting stupidly loud noises.
Most cities already have noise ordinances. But as usual owning a car gives you situational immunity to the law.
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They are not enforced.
This was the line of thought I had as well, it should be so easy to stop this problem as it stands
You can’t just bust out a sound meter and take a reading. There are so many factors that it makes it unenforceable, because at the end of the day the burden of proof would still be placed on the enforcement arm that it was that vehicle. How do you control for ambient noise? Distance? Temperature? It is just unenforceable to make a dB level a mark.
If your car goes pop pop pop, though, I think you need to have your car taken away, and maybe your freedom, because you’re just an asshole.
You can say this about the whole topic of car centricity. It is easy to solve. It’s just not wanted.
Fine the manufacturer for each incident with each vehicle and make them recall and fix every one to stop it. Unless it’s the result of someone modifying their own vehicle, then you seize the vehicle and suspend their license.
People modify their vehicles to be loud.
Ok well regardless of surrounding habitats; it’s a driving hazard. Loud cars are a hazard on the road if the owner cannot hear those around them. It’s not on the list but it should be front and center when it comes to road safety around others cuz the road is shared.
That doesn’t really make a lot of sense either though. Most cars have built in sound proofing and while you can hear other cars, it’s rarely a useful sense when driving. If not being able to hear is a significant hazard then why are deaf people allowed to drive?
Doesn’t mean there isn’t a benefit with hearing.
There is for sure, but I would argue that a quieter sports car with too much power for an inexperienced driver to handle is more of a hazard than a loud old beater car. I guess I’m just trying to add that there are other things that people drive that are more dangerous than a loud vehicle that we should probably focus on first, as much as loud vehicles can be a nuisance.
Focus on first?
Why do you need this to be a competition? That’s pretty toxic approach to problems.
A loud motorcycle is annoying, but way less dangerous than a quiet truck that the driver can’t see over, at least to other drivers and pedestrians. That’s all I was trying to add. No competition or toxicity, so I don’t know why you are getting that vibe. I even gave you that 1 up vote you have on that last comment there.
Better ban radios too then.
Well you sound unreasonable.
Points 1-9 are empirically proven effects of noise, none of them are BS. Point 10 is an arbitrary opinion.
Points 1-9 being empirically proven is still a BS argument unless you’re also supporting banning all loud noises. Using it as a justification for banning loud cars when we are around loud sounds elsewhere.
Uh… yes? This is commonly the case.
Germany e.g. has maximum noise immission levels of 55 dB(A) during daytime in mixed zoning areas to 35 dB(A) at night in hospital and similar areas…
Ambient sound levels from bugs can exceed 55dBa. We banning bugs?
35 is literally unobtainable, I don’t understand. Wearing high heels will get you a fine. Laughter. Rain.
Immission, not emission. Generally the regulations deal with noise made by humans and especially their appliances. Also, of course there are exceptions, e.g. for children.
And yes, 35 dB(A) is achieveable. A hospital at night is no place to have a party around. Also nobody will wait for you to run around in high heels to give you a fine. But if you regularly do that in your flat and your neighbor below is sick of it, that might get you in trouble.
Edit: does anyone think downvoting will change those facts? 🤡
Yeah, immission isn’t a word I’ve ever heard before so excuse my ignorance. Seems to correlate with how things are measured around here, where basically you take a historic ambient sound level and then the adjusted sound level after a source is introduced. For development, obviously doable. For people traversing the local roadway? Literally impossible. In fact, where I am from, the vehicle traffic associated with a use is typically exempt from their land use application because it’s just not feasible to get an accurate representation. It’s also not feasible to have a business put a “No popcorn tunes” sign up, and then actually enforce it.
Do you have any info on how this 35dB rule is enforced? Genuinely curious. My familiarity with the technology is through the testimony of experts in a quasi-judicial setting, and so I am far from an expert, but what I’ve heard with enough frequency is that it’s difficult if not impossible to pull out vehicle noise from ambient noise.
In that vein, there are restrictions based on the duration of noises and their level. Basically, a car door slamming is instantaneous. The backup alarm on a truck is constant. But yeah, unrelated. I just don’t know that you can use decibels to limit the motoring public.
And I say all of this being so staunchly against aftermarket tunes making your exhaust sound like you’re running rich. Shit is stupid. I say this having, at a point in my life, drove a car (factory stock) that had a loud exhaust. And so I think if you’re concerned, the best place to make a change is in regulations associated with vehicle exhausts. Neuter pickups and cars if they can’t cc comply. You need noise to get horsepower and torque? Too bad, muffle and restrict your pipes, and if you can’t make your vehicle strong enough, maybe make it smaller.
Most of all it’s just that there’s written rules, and that you can point at them if you feel things are too loud. With immission a lot is already considered when building new houses, train rails, streets, for example.
With cars and motorcycles there’s also emission guidelines, and you have to register aftermarket changes with the inspection authority. And if the police catch you with unregistered alterations they can fine you, ask to show proof of registration within a week, or even impound your vehicle on the spot.
And if there’s a e.g. noisy party in your area, you can call the police (a rite of passage for every German – your first noise complaint (“Ruhestörung”)) and they will ask nicely one time, if they have to come a second or third time they might confiscate your stereo, disband the party, etc. But it’s just their decision what’s too loud, they won’t take measurements.
If it’s something that’s not immediately obvious (e.g. dogs constantly barking), or the government is… less eager to act (e.g. airports) then it can evolve into a tedious and nerve wrecking legal battle. Which frequently happens.
I have lived in 4 different cities, two have no noise limit (just a generic don’t be loud when it will bother others noise ordinance), the other has an 85 db night time ordinance, and the last is 55/45 db residential day/night (60/55 mixed use, 70/60 industrial).
Yeah.
This is commonly the case
… outside the US…
Idk, I’m curious how common it is outside of Germany specifically. I’ve heard that Germany has exceptionally strict noise restrictions.
So you didn’t bother reading the comments right next to yours where I already explained this?
Yeah everything from the list except last point is forced and overdone
You guys lump motorcycles in on this, right? There’s some biker rally/meetup relatively close by this week/weekend, so I’m busy giving the finger to every asshole that passes with their stupid straight-pipe harleys and dumb shitty radios screaming skynard or AC/DC.
I drive an EV, fwiw. There’s literally zero public transportation here, so I’m not on the fuckcars train, sorry.
Fuckcars is not necessarily about not having a car. It’s about wanting the conditions in which you’re able to get rid of your car.
You can have a car and still want to fuck cars… wait no… and still be fuckcars. I do, and I’m mad I need one at all without losing hours a day.
My town has a “bike week” every few months it feels like, where all the people with their way too damn loud bikes get the privilege of blocking off half the city for a week to… I don’t even know?? Drink, I guess? Whatever the case, a major road becomes impassable and the entire city gets too loud to have a conversation on the sidewalk. It’s awful, god knows why the city thinks it’s a good idea. Ugh, now l’m annoyed again just thinking about it…
I’d argue fossil motorcycles should be banned before fossil cars. If it’s about riding with nothing between you and the ground, an electric MC will do plenty. Otherwise, cars serve the same need.
They’ve both gotta go. The order is not important to me as long as it’s soon.
I’m intending to get an electric bike, when I can. For me, nothing beats cruising down fire roads and a bit of single-track on a quiet vehicle.
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Driving an EV does not mean you don’t make noise, the noise is also mostly tires on the road above 30 km/h
But what about that one dude who wants to go rrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRR at three in the morning and wake up everyone in a five mile radius?
Or the dude who installed a cheap car alarm himself and it goes off all the time because somebody is gonna steal his 15 year old Civic
Or when these two idiots team up and guy one sets off the alarm of guy two.
And you’ve barely slept in three weeks and you just got the baby to sleep.
Take his license.
As someone who lives near a busy road: lets start with making subwoofers illegal first. Its 100x worse than a roaring engine
How about both? A car with a subwoofer is still a loud car.
Idk about the US but here you can be fined if you cause noise. Like maxing out the subwoofer on a parking lot next to residential areas, being a nuisance. As much as I agree with you, I still found loud exhaust/engine noise worse, just because there’s much more of it.
Yeah, there are noise ordinances in theory, but those are never enforced and if you live in a questionable neighborhood, the penalty for calling the cops to enforce them is way steeper than just dealing with the insufferable noise. I hate feeling bass shake my whole house at 2am, but if I have to choose I guess I pick that over being shot.
Yeah there is definitely more of it, but somehow its less disturbing to me. Its at least usually constant whereas bass is like pulsating. The odd Harley Davidson motorcycle can be extremely annoying though, the exhaust on those is designed to be extra loud, which I would say is worse than bass.
All of the above should be fined, however, its basically unheard of to get in trouble for blasting your speakers or having loud exhaust, at least where I live.
Or just because it’s annoying as hell and we have the technology to make silent cars, so there is no valid reason to have noisy cars on public roads.
The reason why someone wants loudness is for their own safety factor such as motorbikes. If cars can’t see them or hear them it is very dangerous. And it helps even less that someone with a car also wants to be loud so they can’t be aware of others on the road.
Loud pipes do not actually save lives. It’s been studied. And they absolutely would not have prevented or mitigated my own wreck (sideswiped in traffic), which has led me to an extended hiatus from riding.What did save my life and minimize my injury? Proper safety equipment.
A full-face helmet that was properly tested for regulatory approval is why I didn’t receive a TBI or need reconstructive surgery, as I high-sided and slid for a ways on my face, and got hit by my bike as it has more inertia.
An armored jacket with CE level 2 armor is why I suffered a nickel-sized abrasion as my only visible external injury (if it had impact armor covering my abdomen, my internal injuries may have been prevented).
A pair of armored, kevlar-mesh overalls are why I did not have a broken hip or need extra hardware (my hip does inform me when it’s cold, however).
A pair of tall, CE certified boots, that were close to needing replacement, are why I sprained, rather than fractured my ankle and why my shin was not fractured. My ankle appears to inform me when precipitation is likely though, so between in and hip, I’m almost a human weather station now :P
And finally, the piece of equipment that I think did the most to save my life are the CE-Cat 2 EN13594/2015 certified gloves, with hard sliders (steel and composite) that I was wearing. Not only did they prevent significant injury that my hands would have suffered, but they allowed me to gain control of my motion, turning my tumble into a slide and steer myself away from traffic that I would have otherwise collided with, very likely causing fatality.
Loud pipes really just annoy the piss out of people around the bike and force pedestrians and those in their homes and businesses to pay attention to said biker. There’s better ways to get attention in the community, like volunteer work or developing an impressive skill. Then, take the money that would be going towards loud pipes and spend it on actual, effective safety gear, not that leather vest nonsense.
Fellow Moto guy, I agree with all this and am glad you made it ok.
This is such a lame argument.
You could just beep your horn every time you see another car.
Which then offers a way to cause accidents in another new awful way.
How about how some luxury cars are so silent, that speakers or exhaust diaphragms are added to make noise.
Silent cars are dangerous too, I had an electric bus zoom past me and i didn’t hear shit because of the busy road. I thought I was dead. They should have some kind of sound at least.
I don’t think it’s the silence that makes car and other vehicle dangerous… It’s the fact that the road is there turf and you as a pedestrian or a cyclist have to be extra vigilant to cross. It’s regrettable most cities are designed that way. Plus, I am almost certain electric buses, just like trams, have a ring bell to make extra noise warning distracted pedestrians. Finally, it’s always the responsibility of the driver (even you as a car driver) to be vigilant of his surrounding, the driver is in charge of the safety of people all around him as he his in control of a massive, deadly machine.
So you didnt hear it because other cars are louder. Tire noise already accounts for a substantial amount of the noise that cars make when the exhaust hasnt been modded to be louder.
Can’t really expect everyone to go full environment friendly mode. And adding silent hunk of fast going metals is just dangerous. Besides living in India you get so used to all the traffic noises, you can’t keep track of tire sounds cuz they’re everywhere.
Very similar arguments apply for church bells, too.
In the right column should also have : cannot be aware of others on the road if you can’t hear their regular engines around you.
that’s what all the windows are for. use eyes
Hearing adds benefits. You cannot deny it.
benefits maybe. deaf ppl still drive fine
Never said they didn’t. I can see you live up to the user name.
my point proves yours moot. doesn’t matter what you said or didn’t say
You don’t need loud vehicles for that, you can still hear quiet vehicles today
Not if you have a louder vehicle.
The only situation here in Europe where I hear individual cars is when I’m a pedestrian on a fairly empty road or when they’re obnoxiously loud.
Otherwise, I mostly hear my own car due to modern soundproofing and maybe the overall din of all the cars combined.
The former situation is actually addressed legislatively for really quiet cars (like EVs): They’re required to have a minimum noise level. If they drive slow enough to be really quiet, they have to generate an artificial sound.
(Edit: I do hear motorcycles, because they tend to have a unique, loud sound.)
I found that a straight-through muffler made for a 99% reduction of pedestrians stepping into the road without looking.
Ah, you’re a troll, thx for letting us know.
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Just screenshot and reupload?
Probably would’ve taken less time than the whiny comment
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Fair
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Eh. Not denying that also cars have cons, but some pros are 1. sometimes the car is the best way/in the shortest time to get somewhere 2. You can carry much more with you if you have a car 3. It can be used as a place to sleep in 4. You can give lifts to people 5. Some work require to have a car (if you need to be in many different places in a day)
I myself don’t have a driving license and I hope I never need one. I use public transportation and a bicycle to get around.
Dunno why loudness is a thing though. Reasonable volume should be advised.
Don’t try being the voice of reason in /c/fuckcars - it’s pointless.
It’s just a dumb meme anyway.
Haha. Is okay. I just wanted to point out some stuff 😄
No, because there aren’t any businesses which pay a livable wage within walking distance of 98% of Americans. yay logic!
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They’re agreeing with y’all tho?
“Yay logic!” means they think it’s dumb logic.
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That’s exactly their point though? The people who argue for cars argue that they’re necessary because US cities aren’t walkable, while conveniently ignoring that that’s entirely due to the auto industry and that making cities more walkable is still an option. They’re pointing out how fucked that logic is.
If that’s not what they’re saying, then they’re a terrible communicator as well as an idiot.
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Ugh, that’s what I get for having faith in people
So let’s make it so that cities are easily traversable without cars!
And in 80 years we might get the report from the committee about the proposal to create a committee to study the feasibility of possibly allowing four story homes.
Oh, wait, no, some NIMBY killed it.
True but this really has little to do with the excessive noise issues. Really easy to build quieter cars, we just let assholes choose how loud they want to be and the results are predictable.
As somebody who lives in a questionable neighbor, I would personally sacrifice a lot if we could ban vehicles from playing music above personal listening levels while in residential zones. Feeling house-reverberating bass at all hours of the day is way worse than normal car noises.
Kind of like the no wake zone for boats. You don’t even have to change the name.
On vehicles modified for sporting purposes the silencers no longer work because the propagation of sound is different and therefore db-killers are applied or it is avoided to drive them around the city center or during off hours. Then there are people who purposely remove the silencer just to make noise and this also reduce factory performance, these deserve to have their license withdrawn because they take advantage of the fact that noisy vehicles occasionally exist.
I moved to an apartment adjacent to an intersection on a medium-high traffic stroad and it was the biggest mistake of my life. I have never been so stressed. I can barely even enjoy music now because half the time if I hear low bass in a song I think its coming from outside and I get annoyed for a few seconds.
And car sound systems.
