So its cosplay for cars? Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
All the work and effort needed to eek out the most performance from an ICE car is an understandable act. For purists that don’t mind the effort they can achieve something that most can’t in ICE. For those that can’t we just watch and appreciate their talents.
However for EV none of that is necessary and in fact introducing manual “rev limits” or limitations or speed or performance at certain vehicle speeds to simulate the shortcomings of an ICE car (with a narrow power band that defines the limit of the technology) is the opposite of “extra effort for extra performance”. Its “reduced performance for extra effort”. Its making a thing look and act like another thing purely for cosmetic reasons.
I have no problem if people want to do this or buy vehicles that have this, but its not something I’m interested in.
I’m sure production will make manual mode just a mode, same as shift mode in automatics (including cvt). Some people just enjoy it. I have a mild sports car and a shitty mini truck. I have a “beginner” motorcycle and a rocketing sport bike. The sport bike and sport car check boxes for performing well, but the baby bike and shitty mini truck are a blast to row through the gears on in double-digit speeds and half the gas. For all intents and purposes I’m pretending those two are race vehicles while being far from it with their US-highway shortcomings.
Besides, this is one step closer to the skateboard chassis dream. One base platform with swappable bodies. Could be an auto 7-seat fwd wagon on monday, an auto 3-seat cabover pickup on Thursday, and a manual 2-seat rwd roadster on Saturday.
The sport bike and sport car check boxes for performing well, but the baby bike and shitty mini truck are a blast to row through the gears on in double-digit speeds and half the gas. For all intents and purposes I’m pretending those two are race vehicles while being far from it with their US-highway shortcomings.
But there’s purpose to moving through the gears on the baby bike and shitty mini truck: You’re extracting the most performance from the hardware.
Imagine for a moment you could still do that on those vehicles but that the performance would be worse if you do. Would you still do it?
The act of shifting and the way that it influences the way the car/bike reacts is an integral part of the driving experience. There’s no fun in just pressing a go pedal with no input.
When you drive an automatic transmission ICE car, do you also use the shift handle to force the automatic transmission to use lower gears until you’re up to speed? Do you exclusively use paddle shifters in automatic transmission cars (where available)?
My daily is a very boring, early 2000s automatic suv. It really doesn’t matter if something like that is an EV. I’ll probably replace it in the next 10 years with some base model EV to do my commute to work. It’s boring, but it works.
In any kind of performance driving car, which this is clearly trying to be, the ice and the shifting is integral to the experience.
To someone who only drives because they have to, it’s not going to make a difference. But there’s a lot of enthusiasts who want an ICE because of how the driving experience is. It’s not as refined or easy as an EV, but it’s more fun.
But there’s a lot of enthusiasts who want an ICE because of how the driving experience is.
Lets examine this idea for a moment. Things like traction control, ABS brakes, and even to an extend air bags change the nature of what the driving experience is. Each of these technologies removes human control from a system and replaces it with something automated. Yet few drivers disable these things to retain the original “driving experience”. Why are these things, which bring improvements to the car’s performance, accepted, but the idea of having to mess with a less efficient gearbox isn’t?
I’d say counter to that. When driving a performance vehicle hard, ABS and TC are something you absolutely want to turn off. Road car ABS sucks to drive with, as it deadens the feel from the brakes. They’re important for the road for safety, but as soon as all you can let the real performance out on track those are the first things to disable, as they actually make it harder to go fast.
Air bags change nothing about a driving experience.
Not everyone wants or needs improvements. People who drive because they have to will want the easiest, most efficient, most sanitized inputs. People who like cars tend to want the most raw feeling they can get. That includes driving assists off, generally only leaving power steering.
At the track, every measure can be taken to improve performance
In your daily driver, you don’t go through all options necessary to maximize performance because its not worth it
In both cases a slower, less efficient and lower performance, manual gearbox is the wrong rational choice.
This doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t have the choice for their hobby. There are lots of hobbies where the point is to be less efficient/performant as a callback to a bygone era. There are those that still take joy in hooking up a team of horses to pull a wagon. There are woodworkers that eschew any power tools to experience the joy of creation in the era before power tools. Drivers that want to use old cumbersome methods to re-create what was needed for performance driving in the old era will be no different.
I support you in your hobby of driving in classic ways as a callback to old technology.
So its cosplay for cars? Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
All the work and effort needed to eek out the most performance from an ICE car is an understandable act. For purists that don’t mind the effort they can achieve something that most can’t in ICE. For those that can’t we just watch and appreciate their talents.
However for EV none of that is necessary and in fact introducing manual “rev limits” or limitations or speed or performance at certain vehicle speeds to simulate the shortcomings of an ICE car (with a narrow power band that defines the limit of the technology) is the opposite of “extra effort for extra performance”. Its “reduced performance for extra effort”. Its making a thing look and act like another thing purely for cosmetic reasons.
I have no problem if people want to do this or buy vehicles that have this, but its not something I’m interested in.
I’m sure production will make manual mode just a mode, same as shift mode in automatics (including cvt). Some people just enjoy it. I have a mild sports car and a shitty mini truck. I have a “beginner” motorcycle and a rocketing sport bike. The sport bike and sport car check boxes for performing well, but the baby bike and shitty mini truck are a blast to row through the gears on in double-digit speeds and half the gas. For all intents and purposes I’m pretending those two are race vehicles while being far from it with their US-highway shortcomings.
Besides, this is one step closer to the skateboard chassis dream. One base platform with swappable bodies. Could be an auto 7-seat fwd wagon on monday, an auto 3-seat cabover pickup on Thursday, and a manual 2-seat rwd roadster on Saturday.
But there’s purpose to moving through the gears on the baby bike and shitty mini truck: You’re extracting the most performance from the hardware.
Imagine for a moment you could still do that on those vehicles but that the performance would be worse if you do. Would you still do it?
Not OP, but yes
The act of shifting and the way that it influences the way the car/bike reacts is an integral part of the driving experience. There’s no fun in just pressing a go pedal with no input.
When you drive an automatic transmission ICE car, do you also use the shift handle to force the automatic transmission to use lower gears until you’re up to speed? Do you exclusively use paddle shifters in automatic transmission cars (where available)?
No, because it’s not performance driving.
My daily is a very boring, early 2000s automatic suv. It really doesn’t matter if something like that is an EV. I’ll probably replace it in the next 10 years with some base model EV to do my commute to work. It’s boring, but it works.
In any kind of performance driving car, which this is clearly trying to be, the ice and the shifting is integral to the experience.
To someone who only drives because they have to, it’s not going to make a difference. But there’s a lot of enthusiasts who want an ICE because of how the driving experience is. It’s not as refined or easy as an EV, but it’s more fun.
Lets examine this idea for a moment. Things like traction control, ABS brakes, and even to an extend air bags change the nature of what the driving experience is. Each of these technologies removes human control from a system and replaces it with something automated. Yet few drivers disable these things to retain the original “driving experience”. Why are these things, which bring improvements to the car’s performance, accepted, but the idea of having to mess with a less efficient gearbox isn’t?
I’d say counter to that. When driving a performance vehicle hard, ABS and TC are something you absolutely want to turn off. Road car ABS sucks to drive with, as it deadens the feel from the brakes. They’re important for the road for safety, but as soon as all you can let the real performance out on track those are the first things to disable, as they actually make it harder to go fast.
Air bags change nothing about a driving experience.
Not everyone wants or needs improvements. People who drive because they have to will want the easiest, most efficient, most sanitized inputs. People who like cars tend to want the most raw feeling they can get. That includes driving assists off, generally only leaving power steering.
I think you’re making my points.
In both cases a slower, less efficient and lower performance, manual gearbox is the wrong rational choice.
This doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t have the choice for their hobby. There are lots of hobbies where the point is to be less efficient/performant as a callback to a bygone era. There are those that still take joy in hooking up a team of horses to pull a wagon. There are woodworkers that eschew any power tools to experience the joy of creation in the era before power tools. Drivers that want to use old cumbersome methods to re-create what was needed for performance driving in the old era will be no different.
I support you in your hobby of driving in classic ways as a callback to old technology.