People will do anything to avoid installing “linux”…
I’m amazed there are people out there putting windows on a Steam Deck. It’s like buying a Monet and then bringing it home and doodling on it in finger paint
If doing certain things under proton was less of a pain in the ass, I’d agree with you. But proton still isn’t simple for some usecases.
EDIT: the people downvoting me very likely have only surface level experience with Proton. Sorry, it isn’t perfect. It’s based on WINE, which also isn’t perfect. It’s making a lot of progress and is damn close but it isn’t perfect.
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I guess they are referring to playing some specific games or software which don’t work well on Linux even with proton.
That’s the great thing about the deck; You can use it for whatever you want.
I personally would rather not play those games than worsen the general experience by installing Windows. Other people feel differently and that’s okay.
Yeah, Mod Organizer 2 beta is still broken due to a qt6 dependency issue with WINE. Vortex Mod Manager still has issues and is a pain to even install. Certain mods for games require manually renaming DLL files and figuring out which ones to rename and what the name should be. You can’t simply treat it like Windows, which means for some usecases it’ll be far more complex to handle.
Mod Organizer 2 beta for Starfield still doesn’t work properly because of a qt6 error in WINE
You’ve got to rename .dlls nonstandard because the way they’re made breaks the WINE layer
But tell me again how it works perfectly? I’ve been using these tools since before the Steam Deck existed lol
Edit: Three weeks ago you were complaining about an issue with steamOS and external display resolution.
Tell me again how it’s all perfect?
If doing certain things under proton was less of a pain in the ass, I’d agree with you. But proton still isn’t simple for some usecases.
While true for those “some usecases”, Proton is the simplest solution for most use cases, though. Not because Proton is perfect but because it works best for what the Deck is designed as.
Proton is literally just the windows compatibility layer and doesn’t “work best for what the Deck is designed as”. Feel free to say that about SteamOS, sure. But Proton is literally just a side effect of most software not targeting Linux.
Proton is literally just the windows compatibility layer and doesn’t “work best for what the Deck is designed as”.
It’s not possible to make a Steam Deck equivalent product with Windows, therefore there is no alternative to Proton for making a equally compelling product.
Feel free to say that about SteamOS, sure.
SteamOS is part of the product that is Steam Deck.
Your first statement is essentially factually incorrect, and your second statement is true but I’m not really sure exactly what you mean by it.
Look, all I was getting at with my point is some things don’t work right within Proton, and the solutions to make it do so are really annoying. I still like Proton, I still use Proton, I still prefer Linux (and steamOS).
That doesn’t change the fact that certain specific gaming usecases (like using a version of Mod Organizer 2 with Starfield support that isn’t outdated) are just simpler overall under Windows right now, and relatively painful to get working under Proton.
Edit: It’s a lot of little stuff, like this, that makes various tools crash, that are the most frustrating. I still really admire and regularly use the WINE/Proton projects, it’s just that certain workflows are really complicated or broken in that environment.
Your first statement is essentially factually incorrect
Factually? Oh, I see. I beg your forgiveness for thinking that was subjective.
The anti piracy bullshit that goes along with a lot of the online games. Or in rare cases, wanting to use windows for work related stuff.
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I love GNU, but windows 11 works very well and the software
just works, and fast. stable etc…I tested it for 4 months.
I put steam back on yesterday because it was made for it. so it runs better.
I can also use KDE 😅💕
so it works for me.If it had no desktop
I would have no
choice but would
be ok having to
use windows.PS: I know there are those hurting
for a windows key. You can buy OEM keys online for 30 bucks and its legal.https://www.kinguin.net/category/19429/windows-10-professional-oem-key
That’s why they called it “SteamOS”, not “Steam Linux”
Fact of the matter is the most successful Linux devices are the ones that you don’t need to know Linux to use. Chromebooks and steam decks are popular because they don’t need tinkered with. You can if you want, but the average person can just use it.
The Steam Deck is the first Linux machine that hasn’t killed itself on me or given me hiccups during basic installations of things.
The only thing the Steam Deck hasn’t “just worked” for me for is Rocksmith.
Again, the Steam Deck is the only Linux machine that I’ve had that just works and does not make me want to tear my hair out.
When Linux accomplishes that it will be more popular. Until then, it feels like trying to play whackamole with fixes and solutions to things that should just work in the first place.
Yeah, the fact that it just works and comes with the hardware is good.
However I think the article is suggesting a world where gamers go and install SteamOS as a regular distro. I think that’s going to be a lot harder and more error prone than just installing Mint and putting Steam on it.
The thing is valve is doing a ton of extra stuff. Game mode by default, for example. Mint won’t do that, or at least not to the same extend/speed. If your primary use is gaming, there’s value in a gaming focused distro. You can still do many other things with it anyway.
I’d argue it hasn’t imploded on you because it’s immutable. You’d have a similar rock solid experience on any of the immutable Fedora releases (Silverblue, Kinoite etc) or some of the other immutable distros
That’s fair, although it could go further with how an immutable distro isn’t as effective for some of the desired uses - in the case of the Steam Deck it’s designed to do what it does and it does it. Other Linux installs are retroactively configured by the user, where whether it’s a regular computer for grandma or a server for a homelab will net you wildly different results of what distro you choose.
While it’s nice having options, it doesn’t make things easier for new users when searching. Having a hundred ways to solve a problem just makes the problem more annoying to solve (inb4 rtfm)
Also, I just remembered I lied. There’s one other Linux install I’ve never had issues with which was Tails, though to your point can be operated as immutable, though I think at the time mine was not set up to be RO
Yeah as much as I love Linux, it’s much more tuned for tinkerers, developers, and techies because everything is rtfm and troubleshooting yourself. After the initial setup process though, you would have gained enough knowledge to fix a lot of things if it ever is broken.
I agree to an extent regarding the last sentence, things like networking make that a whole can of worms to itself!
I just spent 2 hours trying and failing to get a Hello, World! in Eclipse, I’m not brave enough for Linux
Your first mistake was using Eclipse…
Which programming language do you want to use?
Depending on what you want to do the one does not imply the other. (And some times coding actually is easier on Linux, I had a way better experience compiling my c++ projects there then my friend had on windows)
It’s easy to compile things in Windows! First, set up WSL …
It’s easy to compile things in Windows! First, set up WSL …
Yep,
echo "Hello World!"works just as well in WSL as under native Linux.Are you bashing bash?
Are you bashing bash?
No, I’m making fun of anybody who claims that outputting Hello World on Linux is somehow complicated.
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HoloISO is almost the exact same thing, just without any support from Valve.
All public interest in HoloISO pretty much died when the author came out as a fanboy of Putin’s war. The aforementioned Bazzite seems to be the best supported option these days.
Oh, I wasn’t aware of that at all, my bad. Bazzite looks much more polished, as well.
Check out Bazzite. Works pretty well on Desktop in my opinion.
At this moment in time, Bazzite is just straight up a better experience than SteamOS. Fedora backend with rpm-ostree is way better than what Valve has going on. And for Steam Deck, GNOME just makes more sense for touch interfaces.
Yeah, I was puzzled why Valve chose KDE to be the default desktop for a touchscreen device. Ultimately though I figured they just wanted a Linux desktop that would be more familiar to Windows users.
I would bet the main reason is that KDE is way more willing to accept features and contributions outside of the typical use case than Gnome is.
I was puzzled why Valve chose KDE to be the default desktop for a touchscreen device.
The default software selection, especially when SteamOS 3.0 had launched, clearly showed that they picked a setup they wanted to use for themselves (my setup is heavily customized by now but I clearly remember VIM having been set as default text editor). If Valve was interested in Desktop Mode being primarily for touch use, they could go with Plasma Mobile instead of Plasma Desktop. Plain Gnome without any extension is not good to use as either desktop or handheld. The Gnome developers can’t even make up their mind which shell to use for touch devices because they literally have two competing ones (Phosh and Gnome Shell Mobile).
You guys are using the touchscreen? You know there’s a perfectly serviceable trackpad you can use, right?
The trackpad is the only way to really use the desktop, but if the touchscreen was better KDE still wouldn’t allow a good touchscreen experience.
Bazzite is just straight up a better experience than SteamOS. Fedora backend with rpm-ostree is way better than what Valve has going on. And for Steam Deck, GNOME just makes more sense for touch interfaces.
Bazzite defaults to Plasma for Desktop Mode just as SteamOS. According to https://universal-blue.org/images/bazzite/installation/ Gnome is only the 4th installer choice.
Can confirm, been using it since…launch almost. Was on Ublu Kinoite Main38 when F38 went into beta.
Was on Ublu Kinoite Main38 when F38 went into beta.
I’m not even sure if you’re taking the piss or that’s a real thing
To clarify: I was using Fedora Kinoite 37 already:
When I stumbled upon Jorge’s YouTube videos and his excitement for the Univeral Blue project made me just have to join/try it out.
So when the beta for Fedora 38 went live, instead of rebasing Kinoite to 38, I rebased to Universal Blue 38:
rpm-ostree rebase ostree-image-signed:docker://ghcr.io/ublue-os/kinoite-main:38(The
kinoite-mainimage since I have an AMD GPU)Now I’m on Bazzite 39 Desktop:
rpm-ostree rebase ostree-image-signed:docker://ghcr.io/ublue-os/bazzite:latestThe Full Image List:
NVIDIA Images:
Honestly it’s a better out of box experience than even a chromebook. Except it’s Fedora. With lots of extra goodness and tweaks.
I really like what ublue is doing and I recommend anyone check it out. But I feel like most users won’t understand the jargon used to describe ublue. Images, container, cloud-native are all terms that might overwhelm new users.
Them being enthusiastic about how ublue works is awesome though and people who understand the terms can easily understand what it’s about. My two cents.
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Welp, there go my weekend plans.
I’ve been loving it on desktop, personally
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I hope it does because the biggest problem for handhelds like the Ally is the atrocious experience as soon as you leave steam big picture. Armor Crate is buggy as hell and trying to click anything in windows with the joysticks is not fun. Not to mention the usual Windows shenanigans of “update every damn day” and “spam me with bs about one drive and angry birds”.
Yeah, I feel like the Steam Deck is the only handheld PC that could be a decent experience without trackpad, since it provides a console like experience. It’s pretty unacceptable in my opinion to have windows handhelds forcing a windows desktop experience without a trackpad.
I imagine some of the smarter people at Microsoft are seeing the Steam Deck unfold and are realizing it’s a potential threat. Desktop is dying, and gaming is one of the few segments still doing alright in the space. Microsoft wants to make sure games continue to be made for Windows even as mobile and consoles take over the lion’s share of profits. They haven’t been buying up studios just to prop up Xbox 😉. The Deck runs Windows games, and if compatibility ever reaches a point that the average gamer doesn’t need to know they aren’t running Windows, Microsoft is in big trouble. With the progress made just in the last five years alone, it’s an eventual possibility.
Licensing is a cost in an already razor-thin market. If gamers won’t care that a device isn’t running Windows - they won’t install Windows on it, and the OEM will just pocket the difference. Valve also has an advantage traditionally enjoyed by console manufacturers. They can sell it at no profit or even a loss, because Steam Store sales will make the money back.
So long as Valve keeps steady progress and improving compatibility, they will carve out their niche. If they can somehow get studios with major multiplayer games to provide official support, the chicken and egg problem will solve itself.
I don’t think microsoft worrys that much about PCs they make their money in B2B where they profit from Lock-ins due to their vast ecosystem not because companys use windows for gaming.
Very true. It’s similar to NVIDIA in that way. Their money comes from data centers, licensing, and B2B - not gaming GPUs. I’m speaking in the terms of Windows on traditional consumer desktops and their position in that space. I don’t mean to sound like one of the usual “MS is dead any day now” people, cause frankly they are wrong.
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The temerity to repeat ‘soon’ for well over a year is one of Valve’s worst traits. One wonders if reflexively lying to customers is intentionally baked into their culture.
This right here is why they do like one interview a year, lmao.
What he actually said was “We’re hoping [it will be] soon”, but for whatever reason people’s reading comprehension skills go out the window whenever there is a Valve interview.
The reading of his intention is plain; regardless my curiosity stems from a similar interview that was issued before the Deck launched and not this particular conversation.
Back then advising “not anytime soon” would have set a fair expectation but Valve chose to serve pablum and continues to do so regardless of the number of interviews/communications that have been released in the past year alone.
I spent a few minutes going over old interviews and didn’t find anything insinuating that would be “soon”. Most I could find was:
We actually want to work with them to make sure that, if they want to use SteamOS or offer a SteamOS based alternative, that can be done
Once it’s widely available, not only are we excited to see other manufacturers making their own handheld PC gaming devices, we’re excited to see people make their own SteamOS machines which could include small PCs that they put next to their TV
I think it’s pretty silly to expect Valve to release SteamOS when it doesn’t even have a (immutable) package manager, among many other missing features.
Two years ago Valve advised it would be generally available shortly after launch. I find it less silly to expect a company to shoot straight with the consumer than it is to apologize on their behalf (parasocial creatures though we may be.)
Valve advised it would be generally available shortly after launch
Again… I can’t find where they said that, maybe post the quote?
I think Valve has good intentions and wants a lot of things done soon, but they just don’t have enough people on their Steam Deck team to get things done at the speed they want.
Yeah, and that’s probably why development for 3.5 has also been this slow. They were busy with the OLED model
Your guess has the right feel for me too. A lot of people were hungry for OLED and this is the trade off.
I’m just ready for Linux to grow. Maybe it is naive to think that one distro will carry us much further but with the proper solution I can easily imagine a lot of people dual booting their PCs soon.
Honestly, what would you get out of SteamOS on PC anyway? Just install Linux, set up the drivers you need, launch Steam at startup, and default it to Big Picture Mode.
Boom, SteamOS.
Steam OS is a lot more powerful than big picture
In what way? Sure… If you compare just big picture mode to an entire OS, but that’s hardly what was meant.
My desktop with endeavour OS and SteamDeck can do all the same things… In fact doing some things on the deck is more tricky because it’s limited to installing flatpaks.
In fact doing some things on the deck is more tricky because it’s limited to installing flatpaks.
That’s the advantage. A PC with a layer on top is a PC with a layer on top. It still wants you to have a mouse and keyboard. You still have to update it like a normal desktop PC.
Steam OS is controller and controller only. It’s a no bullshit durable system designed to be put on a box and just leave it that way.
You can do the same things, but I’m not putting a norma lLinux box running steam under my TV.
Except SteamOS is also just “a linux box running steam”… A PC with a layer on top. The only differences I’m hearing you wanting is immutability, and discrete version updates instead of a bunch of package upgrades. There are several immutable distros, and updates can be made painless in a variety of ways.
The SteamOS UI is big picture mode now. Since some update or other, the old big picture mode from SteamOS 1.0 got updated to the SteamDeck UI for desktop as well.
Except SteamOS is also just “a linux box running steam”
You can basically count on this as a rule, whenever you’re saying something reductive like this, You are probably missing something really critical.
In this case that critical thing you’re missing is ease of use and support.
I’m not putting a Linux distro under my couch because I know that almost as a fact that computer will break in some strange way, and I will have to dig that stupid thing out from under my TV, plug it into some stupid monitor keyboard and mouse, and fix it by following a guide on Google, reinstall the operating system to whatever the hot flavor of the month that actually has developer support is, that sort of thing.
But I would happily install steam OS, because I know I would drop steam OS on that box and it would just work for however long valve has a successful hardware line, which at this point I think is going to be a decade given the success of the steam deck.
No, you don’t. SteamOS on Deck is only so stable because everyone has the exact same hardware, a version that people can just install on anything they want would have the exact same post-install risks as any other distro.
And even then there have been problems with SteamOS on Deck big enough that it made some have to re-image the OS entirely. There was one version that would stop booting once it hit a certain number of files on system, and all you could do was just to occasionally re-install SteamOS until it was fixed.
The OS being bug-free on valves hardware absolutely does not mean it will be on whatever you’re chucking beneath your TV.
But this defense doesn’t even apply to the claim you made, or why I took issue. What you said, is that SteamOS is “more powerful”. It’s not, it’s objectively less capable than most linux distros. What you meant, is that’s is more convenient, and less likely to require occasional troubleshooting.
SteamOS is Steam running Big Picture mode on a modified and limited Linux distribution based on Arch, with not much else going on. There is some weird shit with the compositor, but you can replicate that on any other Linux system.
It’s quite literally nothing special. The only reason to want it on Desktop is to save a few minutes of setup for a machine you intend to only run Steam games.
Right, and I never said it was only Big Picture. What can it do that Linux + Big Picture can’t?
Its a fair take, but the “game mode” where the is is running gamescope allows valve to do some magic that’s not super possible with the current big picture
Does it have more oomph? More chutzpah? More mileage? More HP? More pep in its step? More ability to go the distance? More firepower? More brass? More boldness? More flavor?
Yes
SteamOS is a less flexible distribution of Arch Linux. You can do the same and even more with other distributions. Even on the Steam Deck.
The lack of flexibility is power when it comes to use as a console. “You can do the same” isn’t true when the desire is to have a no bullshit “just works” experience with minimal setup.
You can install Bazzite and you will have the same experience you would get with SteamOS. Don’t use the extra features and you won’t be able to tell the difference. It is a “just works” experience with minimal setup. The setup even includes emulators and launchers like the FFXIV one so it is even more minimal than SteamOS.
It may not work directly on a given PC or a specific device, but that would also happen if Valve released a generic SteamOS.
Edit: typo
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Installing games is same as Windows, download and launch via Steam. As for lack of FPS, willing to bet you had an Nvidia card but didn’t install the drivers for it.
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You click the game on Steam, click “install”. That’s the same on Windows or Linux, the client doesn’t change.
Going from 144fps to 2fps sounds like a graphics driver issue to me, what was the problem then?
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Incorrect again.
uh… ok. It really is that simple, I play games everyday on Linux and that is exactly how I’ve installed 100s of games, so I’m really not getting it… Are you talking about enabling Steam Play in the Steam settings or something?
I don’t know. The “that’s the story of the time I tried to play games on Linux” indicates that I, and most every other user, doesn’t care enough to spend all day burrowing through search engines and support threads to figure out how to just make the thing work.
I don’t know why you are telling me this, I’m not the King of Linux or anything. Just thought I might help you with your problem, I don’t know what I did for you to unload all this on me lol
Incorrect again. If you try to do that on a non-Linux game, Steam just acts like it’s incompatible and the install button is greyed out without any indication of anything to do with Proton or how to make it work.
Then you disabled Steam Play.
So it sounds a lot like you’ve never actually done this before because that’s factually incorrect.
As a long time openSUSE user I know for a fact that you’re wrong.
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And as someone who has actually used Steam on Linux
And you’re the only one!
Had to go searching around online for how to even install a damn game.
Wait, you had so much trouble to look if the “Enable Steam Play” checkbox was ticked? 🙄
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Yet another person missing the point 🤦
Nah, we all get the point. You claim that Steam does not come with Proton on regular Linux distributions but you’re wrong which is an easily googlable fact you continue to deny. If your installation of Steam is somehow broken, that’s specific to you. At most the “Enable Steam Play” checkbox has to be ticked in Steam’s settings.
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I continue to deny it because it’s wrong.
Yeah, the whole world is wrong. You’re the only one knowing the truth.
I dunno but I tried that and it didn’t work at all. Had to go searching around online for how to even install a damn game.
Just for shits and giggles I fired up a VM and did a clean Steam installation from Flathub. This is the default:
Steam Play (=Proton) is on for supported Windows games. For unsupported games it’s off.
You can tuna steam deck but you can’t tuna fish
What about the glue?
Not going to happen until NVIDIA proprietary drivers work well in Wayland
Not going to happen until NVIDIA proprietary drivers work well in Wayland
Maybe Valve could just release it and replace the download button with this to get the incompatibility message across:
You might want to check out update 545
Yes, I tested it. Some issues were fixed, but it’s far from being complete
This is also my assessment. I’m still going to give it an honest go, since no night light was honestly my main gripe and that works now.
From the issues that I encountered:
plasmashel has some artifacts leaving traces after cursor move when blur is enabled (as default)
plasmashell sometimes freezes
Weird frame sync glitches (past frames cross with more recent ones). happens on any compositor when framerate goes below refresh rate
I don’t think SteamOS is a good desktop OS. It’s designed for a gaming console, e.g. a handheld or gaming pc connected to a tv.
The desktop mode is great but the immutable filesystem isn’t good for installing of system level apps that are necessary for day to day usage. E.g. kernel modules for OBS virtualcam, VirtualBox and similar.
Any Linux distro with Steam is a generally better experience for desktop usage. SteamOS is big picture mode by default, a desktop OS should open the desktop by default.
That’s why I think people will be disappointed if Valve releases SteamOS for any pc.
Immutable OS’s are increasingly popular. While some types of software are harder to install, the system being harder to break is very appealing. I know if I setup my wife/kids/parents with a Linux OS I would go with an immutable OS to reduce how much they could accidentally break.
Big thing is SteamOS needs a way to install traditional packages permanently. Other immutable OS’s usually offer an option to reboot to install packages not otherwise available/viable through flatpak or distrobox/nix.
Look into Fedora Silverblue, immutable filesystem OSes have come a long way. Things like Toolbx allow you to install packages in sub-systems similar to WSL and flatpaks make all the grapical applications avaliable. Plus package installation doesn’t pollute your base install with packages making the OS increasingly unstable.
I’ve used Fedora Silverblue for a while and it’s still on a laptop that keeps itself up to date without any user intervention. The specific way SteamOS is immutable is the problem, namely wiping apps installed through pacman on updates. Most apps work in containers (flatpak, distrobox) but gaming-related software like the xbox controller driver xone and v4l2loopback for OBS virtual camera support do not work well with how SteamOS currently works.
My point is not that SteamOS couldn’t be a great desktop OS, but that Valve focuses on solving a relatively narrow use case. This makes it not an ideal general purpose desktop OS, altough that is subject to change.
So what comes first: SteamOS for desktop or Half Life 3?
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ok
I’m on kbin, I can definitely downvote you
I’m on Lemmy, downvotes assemble!
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The post you originally replied to and are currently commenting on is a Lemmy post which was federated to Mastodon, where I’m guessing you’re seeing a copy of it. We’re seeing this on Lemmy, where it was originally posted, where there are definitely downvotes.
https://kbin.social/m/steamdeck@sopuli.xyz/t/615037/News-SteamOS-will-be-coming-to-other-handhelds-before-you#entry-comment-3485009
Windows doesnt blankent statement run every game faster than linux as native sometimes isnt the fastest method.
Take for example, dx11 and older games. They lack a asynchronous shader cache which heavily helps minimum framerates and 1% lows. Because of older api games going through the dxvk translation process, games them would have a working cache and bypass some inherent problems with a game. MMOs like Final Fantasy 14 and guild wars 2 gain benefits, even single player games like FF7R translating from DX11 > Vulkan performed better than the DX12 native.
Elden Ring was one of the first games to show this problem and was documented. When Elden Ring launched, it effectively had shader cache broken, causing microstutters. Users on Linux, especially the steam deck, did not receive that problem because Vulkan already fixed the probelm without the devs needing to fix it.
We can still downvote you, being the only user here accessing the thread via mastodon, just means you’re the only one not seeing how big of an L you’re taking.
The rest of us can see it just fine.
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@Fubarberry a bit of newbie on these distributions, it seems that nvidia graphic cards are a nogo for chimeraos and holoiso. Has anyone some good experience with bazzite ?
I’ve heard lots of good things about Bazzite, but I don’t have any hands on experience with it. I think it would be a good option.
@Fubarberry stuck on https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite/issues/391 for now… shame they don’t have a list of supported devices.
