- cross-posted to:
- nottheonion@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- nottheonion@lemmy.world
Donald Trump has said that he will not become a dictator if he becomes US president again except “on day one”, after warnings from Democrats and some Republicans that the US was in danger of becoming an autocracy if he wins the 2024 election. Fuck, well at least he’s honest on this statement
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if the US actually re elect him they’re fucked
Yup, and Trump doesn’t have a choice. It’s looking more and more likely that he’s going to lose a lot of money and potentially face jail time. His only way out is to seize power. Since he’s backed himself into a corner, he’ll try everything to steal the next election, including another coup attempt.
I don’t personally think it’ll work, but on the slim chance it does many of us will be facing an existential threat which will require swift action. He’s already publicly stated that he sees leftists as vermin which need to be eradicated, and I, for one, don’t want to give him the chance to act on that threat.
Yeah and Donnie’s definition of leftist is anyone that isn’t actively deep throating his boot
Of course he has a choice.
He can choose facing the consequences of his actions.
If that’s unappealing, he can also choose to, let’s say, “pull an Epstein”.
Let’s not give him the benefit of saying this is the only “strategy” he has left, because that implies you can’t blame him for trying. Like any reasonable person in his position would do the same thing.
And that’s complete nonsense. He’s not an animal stuck in a bear trap, he’s a human being, who has been very open about his penchant for fascism long before he was charged.
Epstein did not kill himself.
Regardless it’s an option for him.
Nobody said otherwise.
If somehow, Trump managed to off himself despite constant monitoring by his secret service detail, what a shame that’d be.
I might have to take a day off of work just to celebrate.
pension for fascism
If you are making a joke here, it is funny.
I’m speaking pragmatically. Perhaps ‘choice’ wasn’t the best word.
He can choose facing the consequences of his actions.
If that’s unappealing, he can also choose to, let’s say, “pull an Epstein”.
I find both of these alternatives extremely unlikely, but here’s hoping.
He’s too much of a narcissist to pull an Epstein
The leftists need to learn how to use guns and own them. SocialistRA and liberalgunowners are communities that welcome leftist gun enthusiasts and new comers who want to learn for whatever reason.
There are plenty of “leftists” who own guns in the US.
They just don’t flaunt it around like the rightards do.
As evident by the 2 orgs I Listed in my comment. I’m aware, but most of the left aren’t gun owners, like 70%. I’m obviously not talking about the ones who already are.
Issue is, the whole world will be effected by it.
Hard to say what would have happened, but I feel like I was pretty much unaffected as an European the last time.
It is difficult to say because you do not observe the counterfactual. I would definitely say we would have progressed more on climate action if HRC had become president. Also, the culture war issues would have definitely played out differently. The Trump presidency also emboldened Putin, which may have affected the situation in Ukraine. But again, in foreign policy so many things happen simultaneously that it’s often difficult to pinpoint direct causes.
In Canada, we’ve seen a rise in Trump-like politics…
If that is the objective truth, then count yourself lucky for being a white, ethno-european, climate denier.
Yeah, probably wasn’t great for climate action, but that’s true for all conservative politicians not just the crazy ones. How did Trump affect whites and non-whites living in Europe differently?
Stuff and reasons, basically. But actually the worst thing he could do is try to leave or undermine NATO, and ditch Ukraine
I live in europe currently, and there’s been a hard right turn here since trump seriously got on the scene. In france Macron only beat the female french trump by a small margin. In Italy, they’ve elected a hard right person as their leader, In switzerland, the right wing party is in power. Trump was the first domino to fall and now we’re going to be seeing shit like that all over.
but yeah, I was pretty much not directly affected by any of that shit that happened stateside.
We’re all fucked, not just the states
This is the “best” America can push forward, we are already fucked. We were fucked 24 years ago.
The right wing in America has been sliding further right for a long time, and tending to drag the left along with it. (Nobody is under the impression that the US “left” isn’t actually center-right.) In the last decade, that rightward silde has accelerated. Trump, being the presumptive Republican nominee for president, is the “best” that the lunatic far right - not America - can push forward.
The Democratic party, representing the
leftcenter-right, is no longer allowing itself to be dragged further right. And there remains a fairly large proportion of people who still call themselves Republicans who oppose the burgeoning fascism. Those are the people who feel politically homeless right now; they just need someplace to go and someone to vote for. Liz Cheney is floating a third party run, and I think she’s easily able to consolidate “sane conservative” support.I was predicting that the Republican party would split back in 2015. I had no idea they would drag on like this for so long.
The right wing in America has been sliding further right for a long time, and tending to drag the left along with it.
See: Overton Window
We were fucked 24 years ago.
Exactly: that’s when the first coup (the Brooks Brothers Riot) succeeded.
As an American I think we’re fucked already.
Were fucked, We just get a 50% chance to choose what hole.
I don’t think the American people would ever let a Dictator get that far. If Trump gets nominated by the GOP you’ll see so much violence that by election day the entire course of history in the United States will be forever changed. I personally believe the GOP will not let him be nominated and will reject him. Trump will run third party and split the vote and give the Democrats a huge win.
I wished I could be so optimistic. They have had endless chances to reject him and haven’t. It’s almost like Putin has some leverage on a bunch of em lol.
He will get nominated, but hopefully my fellow Americans will not let him return to the white house.
Maybe instead he’ll just die while shitting on his gold toilet some time next year. Would be kinda nice.
I wish that were true, but I suspect that the American people have become too passive to resist a dictator. He won’t take over by force, but cloaked in legitimacy, just like Hitler and Mussolini did. Heck, you don’t even have to go back that far. That’s Putin’s playbook, too. A Republican President also has a Supreme Court that favors very strong presidential powers and a permanently divided and largely impotent Congress. No real resistance there.
So, what’s left? The police? American police would love having more power under a dictator. The public hates cops these days, and a dictator would restore their “rightful place” as respected and feared enforcers who will “clean up the streets”.
The military? Well, that’s a wild card. They may not support a dictator, but they also don’t want to start a civil war. I think a US dictator will give himself enough legal cover and legitimacy to convince the military to hang back from interfering in politics.
The most likely source of resistance is from individual states. However, I’m not sure what they can do, realistically. Secession would certainly start a civil war, which would play right into the dictator’s hands, giving him the perfect excuse to suspend rights and use the military for domestic purposes.
The military? Well, that’s a wild card.
Just want to mention Tommy Tuberville holding up military appointments. Unrelated I’m sure.
Despite claiming he will stop blocking such appointments, he is still going to continue blocking the appointments of 3 and 4 star generals.
They literally had the chance to stop him during his second impeachment after the attempted insurrection. Anyone who didn’t do it then, sure as hell isn’t going to do anything now.
The last thing the GOP wants to do is piss off his supporters right before the next presidential election. The electoral college could have ousted him during the 2016 election (as people had floated around) too. There’s just not enough people are willing or have the desire to reject him. Many would love to have him as a dictator, they just need the right pieces in the SCOTUS to say it’s in the constitution.
He’s 100% going to be the nominee now. Even if he goes to jail, he’s still going to be the nominee. The time for anything different is LONG past.
Why do you think there will be violence before the election, but after Trump’s nomination? In this scenario, in your mind, who are the ones that kick off this violence?
Historical evidence on the rise of Dictators. You have to opress your opposition through violence to look strong. I foresee Kent State style responses from Trump loyalists in law enforcement.
Before the election? Why would they do it before the election? I don’t really understand what you’re saying.
If you prosecute violence against your opposition, publicly and with great force, you run a good chance of terrifying large portions of your opposition’s voting base into not voting for fear of implied violence.
You think they want a fair election? It will be January 6 on steroids.
Yes, and Jan 6 happened after the election…
They will be fine (as fine as these nutjobs can be) until the results are announced. If Trump loses, then they go crazy. If he wins, they’ll be very happy (but also go crazy because these people are insane).
They are not going to risk an election.
Let’s not demonize Trump man, he really brought what a lot of people thought would be a culture war into an economic war, which you may think is bad, but it’s actually brought a more muted epiphany for many across both sides that for many people jobs are very important to their lives, unlike in EU where places like Scandinavia, Spain or Greece see culture wars as mud to be stepped on and brushed off but economic sanction is a more realistic declaration of conflict of interest
You can only become a dictator one time, after that you are a dictator.
So he’ll only “become” a dictator on day one, the rest of his life hell just be a dictator.
And let’s not entertain the fantasy that his heath will catch up to him sooner rather than later, remember he has access to better healthcare than 99% of the population and it’s entirely state funded.
We’ll be stuck with him for at least a decade, but I wonder who will inherit the throne when he’s gone?The golden one? Probably Eric. He seems like the type that would need a golden throne.
evil people tend to live longer too. it took kissinger a hundred years before he did anything decent with his life.
“It is with great reluctance that I have agreed to this calling. I love democracy. I love the Republic. Once this crisis has abated, I will lay down the powers you have given me!”
–Chancellor Palpatine
Has there ever been a dictator who relinquished power after “fixing” things? Yeah guys, I’m going to need some extra judicial powers and have the military become my personal army, but it’s just temporary, I swear.
Yes, the original roman ones. This is the origin of the word. They were appointed for emergencies with a lot of power.
They all gave up their position after a while except for Caesar. When Caesar was appointed as a lifelong dictator, he was shortly after assassinated by most members of the senate. But the turmoil led to the Roman Empire not being “democratic” anyway.
Slight correction, he wasn’t assassinated by most of the senate. There were about 60 conspirators out of 200-300, and only a dozen or so actually participated in the assassination (and only 5 actually confirmed to have stabbed him while still alive). Regardless, it’s still true that they came to that conclusion after Caesar was declared dictator for life and started taking away senate power
(and only 5 actually confirmed to have stabbed him while still alive)
It’s medically pretty unlikely you can be stabbed 60 times and not die till the last guy gets his turn.
Funny thing is apparently only one of the wounds was lethal, we were literally one dude getting sick off from Caesar just going Palps mode
Yeah, but he was rustled since they wanted to disband his legions and all that. Who wouldn’t be
A general must always have brothers/sisters to carry upon his shoulders
Despite his relatively old age, [Cincinnatus] worked his own small farm until an invasion prompted his fellow citizens to call for his leadership. He came from his plough to assume complete control over the state but, upon achieving a swift victory in only 16 days, relinquished his power and its perquisites and returned to his farm.
Anyone who wants power, shouldn’t have it.
At least we can trust he will give himself a deadline to step down
The heat death of the universe is technically a deadline, right?
If he goes down that’s fine by me too, all I’m saying is that I am not that kinda guy and I don’t care much either way
Lol
The original office of dictator as defined in the Roman Republic was exactly that,
It was literally the office of “we have tried literally everything else and still have a problem, you there, you seem like a not idiot person, you can do basically anything you want for the next six months or until you solve the problem, after that we’ll make cool statues of you if you do a good job.”
I’m so happy that a fellow history nerd came here and said it before I could.
Given how the reality can get modified over long periods of history, I have to wonder how much those old dictators stepping down were motivated by threats of stabbing if they didn’t.
Well one of them was Cicero, who would have been VERY loudly indignant had there been such a threat,
Not because he intended to defy it, but because he’d be so personally insulted by any insinuation he’d be that kind of dirty politician.
You knew him personally?
No, he was just an extremely prolific writer and a far more prolific narcissist
One of the benefits of writing about yourself, you’ve got an absolutely amazing subject who can do no wrong.
That’s fair :)
Honestly it’d probably work better than our current system.
Just give one random guy carte blanche to run everything. Get immortalized if you do a good job. Get executed if you don’t.
And I’m sure lots of people would take it up, and think that they’d do a good job. And more than likely, they wouldn’t.
I’ve heard the term ‘benevolent dictator’ before, but it might be philosophical. It doesn’t seem to me that anyone capable of assuming the role could remain benevolent long.
I definetly could
source: trust me, bro.
“Better than Trump” is a pretty damned low bar though
I think if we had a trained monkey with a typewriter, it would do a better job than trump.
If teleported in as is, I’m sure, but you gotta get there first.
I don’t think dictatorships are meant to be long term anyway, but I would be careful who I would hand over any power to.
Depends what you mean by ‘meant’.
In Roman times
Cincinnatus is always the classical example, as a senator who was named dictator twice and in both cases relinquished his power as soon as the crisis was resolved.
What’s less often mentioned is that the second “crisis” was just a prominent plebeian undermining the prestige of the Senate by providing cheap grain to the poor during a famine—Cincinnatus presided over the plebeian’s extrajudicial murder, and it’s that as much as his subsequent resignation that made him an eternal hero to the Senate.
To be fair until Augustus there was a particular taboo in Rome of coming off as kinglike, being one guy and making a point of stepping on the Senate’s toes was a VERY fast way to get yourself killed, see also The Gracchi Brothers and Marius.
Romans hated anything to do with royal aspiration so much that one of their most sadistic pleasures was to watch the former royals of newly conquered lands be forced to march in the victory parade of the lead general of the conquest before being ritually strangled. It took being a literal child for the Roman public to hold back from gleefully jeering you for having been a monarch, nevermind being willing to ask for you to be spared from being killed.
Basically just imagine a several centuries long stretch of peak Robespierre paranoia about anything to do with potential plots on kingly aspirations and you can see why some guy deciding to take state business on himself, especially state business that can earn a lot of public support, would be seen as a dictatorship worthy crisis to the Roman Senate.
And we named a city after this guy?
George Washington
Washington was elected in 1788 and re-elected in 1792. However both were unanimous, unopposed, and done solely by the electoral college. Adams/Jefferson in 1796 was the first proper election, after Washington set the 2-term precedent and relinquished power. That precedent was maintained until FDR served four terms during the First World War sequel, which led to the drafting of the 22nd Amendment to the US constitution limiting presidents to two terms in 1947. It was ratified by 36 of the 48 states in 1951.
Also while trying to remember the dates I read Section IV of the 20th amendment. What the fuck is this word salad? Is this the original “Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like??”
The Congress may by law provide for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the House of Representatives may choose a President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them, and for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the Senate may choose a Vice President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them.
The Congress may by law provide for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the House of Representatives may choose a President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them, and for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the Senate may choose a Vice President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them.
Commas were expensive back then.
Pakistan’s Pervez Musharraf?
He was facing heavy domestic and international pressure as well as sanctions on the country. He didn’t do it out of honor.
Ah yes, the “just the tip” of fascism.
Lol and his fans are still totally fine with him saying dangerous crap like his. It’s unbelievable.
Why wouldn’t they be fine with it? A dictatorship is exactly what those traitors genuinely want.
Or think they want… Until they end up being part of a group that’s targeted.
No one who cheers for a dictator thinks that they’ll be ever targeted. There is a large number of minorities for Trump to obliterate before turning to white cis-het neurotypical Republican voters.
That’s because they like the idea of a Trump dictatorship. They simply assume they’d be on the side that’s going to do the dictating.
Can’t dictate from a burnt down house. Can’t dictate with a bullet rattling around your head. I don’t know about the rest of you’se, but I’m not going to be dictated by any rat fuck righties. They can have, and lose, their second civil war.
The scary thing is they literally don’t even hear it. It doesn’t get played on Fox News, and hearing it from any other source will make them prejudge it and ignore it as liberal propaganda.
Slaps knee
Both sides, am I right? /s
You know your country is a failure when the perpetrator of a previous coup attempt is allowed to run for office again like nothing happened.
Can you use those 2A rights to defend against tyranny anytime soon or does that only cover school shootings and gang violence?
This is exactly what the Second is intended to take care of, but no part of the constitution will have any meaning if Trump installs himself as a dictator. Unfortunately the average right winger doesn’t seem to understand that. This is literally the moment they have claimed to be waiting for but they’re on the enemy’s side. He’s going to cancel their gun rights and they’re going to cheer for it.
This is exactly what the Second is intended to take care of
Not it isn’t. The idea that the 2a is supposed to prevent government overreach is revisionist history.
The intention of the 2a was to make a standing federal army unnecessary. Madison didn’t want a federal army, but knew the nation would need some form of military, so he wrote militias into the constitution.
(He changed his tune when the War of 1812 showed him how necessary a true military was.)
It’s laughable to think that people in power wanted others to be able to overthrow them with guns. In fact, rebellions were attempted with guns in the years after the revolutionary war. And they were put down. Never did George Washington say, “Ah, these men with guns seem to think we are being tyrannical. We should reconsider.” No, he said, “Pay your fucking taxes.”
It’s a bit of both. In the 18th century, it was abundantly obvious a country needed to be able to defend itself against both foreign powers and internal threats. But it was also very clear that if you paid a group of people to be professional soldiers, you basically always lived under the threat of those people going “That’s a nice country/state you have there” and launching a coup.
Hence the well-regulated militia, because then you don’t need a proffesional military, and there’s nobody to launch a coup, and also no way for the federal government to take over individual states. So in a way, it WAS to prevent government overreach, but not in the wat it’s usually said.
And, in any case, it’s laughable to think that a group of armed Americans could stand up to the US military if an American dictator ordered them to attack US citizens and they obeyed such an order.
The citizens would be charging in with guns blazing, but the military would send in a few drones and wipe them out. The whole “guns would let us stand against a dictatorship wielding the might of the US military” idea is a fantasy.
The fact that the right is that one that parrots this line while supporting someone who is actively saying he’ll be a dictator and send the military against US citizens blows past ironic and lands in Downright Scary territory.
He will be worse than last time.
Yeah the fact that he doesn’t have a lawful reelection to consider is concerning. Also concerning when you think about the fact that he clearly thinks being the president shields him from a lot of legal ramifications.
So he doesn’t have to temper his behavior to get reelected in any way. He has a shitload of grudges. Pursuing those grudges would likely be various shades of illegal. He thinks staying in office will protect him from the consequences of his actions. That is a recipe for a constitutional crisis if I ever saw one.
Just the tip, I swear I won’t put it all the way in.
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I think you underestimate the security billionaires have.
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Quoth the Privs: “bUt BiDeN sAmE!”
He is, difference is that he is already dictator unfortunately
I would love to hear an example.
He won’t have one.
Biden sucks, but isn’t a dictator and anyone claiming as such is acting in bad faith.
Gas prices
Please explain how Biden controls the gas prices, and how him controlling the gas prices constitutes a dictatorship.
Bad economics
Gas prices are high world-wide.
The reality is that the states that control the supply are in between a rock and hard place, and I truly feel bad, don’t envy them one bit . Saudi, Iran and even Israel to a degree are simultaneously fighting to maintain their state power beyond being an old glorified oil/gas refinery plant, towards becoming a productive collective, staying relevant in the 21st century and also playing their cards well by selectively withholding oil for purposes beyond tanks and rockets is tough and puts pressure on them to innovate in ways that not only threatens the status quo but also the usual backwater terrorist types who they’ve been battling the last decade or so
What about bad education?
Well, that must’ve happened before Biden if it now makes people think the global gas prices are a sign of US president dictatorship.That isn’t the definition of a dictator.
Biden make nunber go up me NO LIKE
Damn your president is raising gas prices in my country too I guess, that asshole lol
Gas prices are high because of supply cuts in Russia and Saudi Arabia and heavy flooding in Libya. Biden has expanded domestic oil drilling at an even higher rate than under Trump, but it takes time for these wells to begin production. In fact gas prices are expected to drop below $3 soon.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/economy/oil-tumbles-below-70-dollars/index.html
None of that makes Biden a dictator.
The guy who says he should be allowed to serve three terms because the Democrats supposedly obstructed his agenda? The guy who says we should re-do the 2020 election after losing? That’s the guy you’re going to trust to be a 1-day dictator, huh?
He’ll only be a dictator for one day. In completely unrelated news, Dictator Trump has proclaimed that every day is his first day in office. Since his second day in office never officially arrives, he can remain a dictator and not have to worry about his term ending. /s
Remember: Trump mocked a disabled person on national television, he raped a 13 year old girl and settled out of court, he called for all of the violence on January 6th 2021 and the overthrow of the American government’s peaceful transition of power, he ordered the use of MOAB, he wasted billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars building a sham wall that hasn’t kept out undocumented immigrants, he moved the American embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, he’s cheated on every single wife he’s ever had, he’s currently charged with 91 criminal charges related to rampant tax fraud, he destroyed Atlantic City, he saluted an enemy general in North Korea, he asked for Russian hackers to perform cyberattacks on his political rivals, he illegally attempted to blackmail Zelenskyy by demanding dirt on the Bidens in exchange for military aid, he ordered law enforcement to open fire on protestors, he gave tax breaks to the rich and increased the taxes on the working class, he brags about sexual assault, and he just told everyone he will be a dictator.
Better vote for him? Don’t Americans watch the news?
“he just says what’s on his mind! He’s just like me!” - my parents probably.
He’s a known liar. Vote Biden, imprison Trump.
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
Vote Biden, let the judicial system come to its own conclusion based on the overwhelming evidence against Trump, without political interference.
Tbf, I don’t think he’s lying about his explicit desire to a dictator.
