Cars and bicycles are two completely different things, and should have different rules governing them. A car is larger, deadlier, and takes longer to stop than a bicycle. A car going 40-50 kph is traveling with far more force, and won’t be able to stop as fast as a bicycle traveling 20 kph.
It’s like saying cars and planes should follow the same rules. Or even better, cars and semi trucks. There are highway speed signs that state one speed for trucks and one for everyone else. Or certain roads where trucks aren’t allowed to drive on. We already have a tiered approach to motor vehicles, it should extend to bikes as well. Blanket approaches don’t work in our modern world when we have cars, bikes, ebikes, escooters, etc all sharing the same space.
Cars and bicycles share the same travel surface. In order to interact safely, they need to follow the same rules. Using your example, semis still need to follow nearly all the same rules as cars. There is a base ruleset for everyone who uses a roadway (including, one must come to a complete stop at a traffic control device that directs them to do so), and only specific modifications to certain rules for additional safety for vehicles in certain classes.
Here in Saskatchewan, bicycles fall under the Traffic Safety Act if they are on public roadways. That means they can be ticketed for exceeding speed limits or disobeying traffic control devices.
If different modes interact on the same travelway, they must share the same set of rules. If they don’t, you get conflicts, which means collision between vehicles, pedestrians, bicycles, and other wheeled modes of travel.
In my example the more dangerous vehicle (semi) has more restrictive rules. Should the less dangerous vehicle (bicycle) not have less restrictive rules? I’m not talking about no rules at all, but treating stop signs as a yield sign for a bike makes sense considering the shorter stopping time, slower speeds, and wider perspective (no parts of the car to potentially block vision) on bikes.
The point of stop signs is so that 1000+ kg vehicle doesn’t interact with traffic, usually from a side street onto a main street, without looking first. Or to ensure there is a known pattern at a 3 or 4 way stop. You need this when the average stopping distance for a car traveling 50 kph is 35 m in dry conditions. You don’t need the same safety measures with bikes because of the physics involved with a smaller, slower, faster stopping, etc bike.
Also, all of this is irrelevant to the point if we had proper bike infrastructure in cities there wouldn’t be a shared road space, or not nearly as much. The infrastructure is designed with cars and truck in mind, as are the rules. If we had more separation between the two methods of travel you would have fewer issues.
I agree, proper bike infrastructure would solve much of this issue. With that, many drivers treat stop signs as yield anyway.
I noticed when driving on a trip in Europe (Norway and Scotland) that many of the intersections where there would typically be a stop sign in North America had only a yield sign. It’s quite simple; give way to oncoming traffic and proceed when safe. Unfortunately, many North Americans think yield means ‘assume I’m going to proceed into this intersection and only brake if I have to while I’m rolling through the crosswalk’.
It mainly comes down to what other members of the travelway expect you to do. If you are predictable, your chances of conflicting with others is diminished. Unfortunately, unless you can convince lawmakers to make the change, a stop sign is going to mean come to a complete stop, which is also what others are expecting you to do.
Seems OK to me. The only issue would be if a cyclist not following the road rules causes a car or truck to take evasive action and this causes an accident with another vehicle.
A lot of cyclists also get hit by blowing stop signs. I have seen too many people who just zip through without looking.
People driving cars should absolutely be cautious, don’t get me wrong on that. That being said, right-of-way won’t matter much if you’re dead. All it takes is one ahole not paying attention while driving and it’s game over for the cyclist. You could also use your argument for pedestrians to cross wherever and whenever they want. Pedestrians won’t kill someone like a car would either, but they are also still at risk.
I don’t know, I’ve just never understood taking that risk over saving a short amount of time. I have genuinely seen some people who have made me wonder how they survived so long.
I agree that the Idaho Stop should be implemented in more places, though. I’m pro-yeild, and anti-blowing stop signs for everyone.
Yes I agree also, blowing through stop signs is terrible regardless of method of transportation. I should have been more clear in my advocating for Idaho stops earlier.
Amish buggies must follow the same laws, so do motorcycles, mopeds, golf carts, side by sides, pedal pubs etc. Bikes, especially now with E bikes making them faster, should follow the same rule set unless they are using their own bike path separate from the road.
You’re comparing apples to oranges with the vehicles though. Besides the Amish buggies, which are fairly rare, everything on that list is powered by a motor/engine of some variety except the bicycle. Look at the speed of bikes compared to any of those other vehicles, they’re not anywhere nearly as fast. The only exception is ebikes, but again, this is an argument for a tiered system where there are different rules for different vehicles as they all interact differently. Ebikes are still supposed to be restricted to 32 kph and 500 W motor max in Canada, which is far slower than any car can do. If people are modifying them to go faster then that’s a different issue to be addressed.
The road infrastructure and road rules are designed around cars. Instead of applying old laws not designed for them, we need different rules for bikes as the times are changing. More and more people are using bikes as a method of transportation, they’re no longer leisure use only.
E bikes are quicker to accelerate, but they’re not any faster. They cutoff the assistance before you get faster than 95% of people can get in their own.
Cars and bicycles are two completely different things, and should have different rules governing them. A car is larger, deadlier, and takes longer to stop than a bicycle. A car going 40-50 kph is traveling with far more force, and won’t be able to stop as fast as a bicycle traveling 20 kph.
It’s like saying cars and planes should follow the same rules. Or even better, cars and semi trucks. There are highway speed signs that state one speed for trucks and one for everyone else. Or certain roads where trucks aren’t allowed to drive on. We already have a tiered approach to motor vehicles, it should extend to bikes as well. Blanket approaches don’t work in our modern world when we have cars, bikes, ebikes, escooters, etc all sharing the same space.
Cars and bicycles share the same travel surface. In order to interact safely, they need to follow the same rules. Using your example, semis still need to follow nearly all the same rules as cars. There is a base ruleset for everyone who uses a roadway (including, one must come to a complete stop at a traffic control device that directs them to do so), and only specific modifications to certain rules for additional safety for vehicles in certain classes.
Here in Saskatchewan, bicycles fall under the Traffic Safety Act if they are on public roadways. That means they can be ticketed for exceeding speed limits or disobeying traffic control devices.
If different modes interact on the same travelway, they must share the same set of rules. If they don’t, you get conflicts, which means collision between vehicles, pedestrians, bicycles, and other wheeled modes of travel.
In my example the more dangerous vehicle (semi) has more restrictive rules. Should the less dangerous vehicle (bicycle) not have less restrictive rules? I’m not talking about no rules at all, but treating stop signs as a yield sign for a bike makes sense considering the shorter stopping time, slower speeds, and wider perspective (no parts of the car to potentially block vision) on bikes.
The point of stop signs is so that 1000+ kg vehicle doesn’t interact with traffic, usually from a side street onto a main street, without looking first. Or to ensure there is a known pattern at a 3 or 4 way stop. You need this when the average stopping distance for a car traveling 50 kph is 35 m in dry conditions. You don’t need the same safety measures with bikes because of the physics involved with a smaller, slower, faster stopping, etc bike.
Also, all of this is irrelevant to the point if we had proper bike infrastructure in cities there wouldn’t be a shared road space, or not nearly as much. The infrastructure is designed with cars and truck in mind, as are the rules. If we had more separation between the two methods of travel you would have fewer issues.
I agree, proper bike infrastructure would solve much of this issue. With that, many drivers treat stop signs as yield anyway.
I noticed when driving on a trip in Europe (Norway and Scotland) that many of the intersections where there would typically be a stop sign in North America had only a yield sign. It’s quite simple; give way to oncoming traffic and proceed when safe. Unfortunately, many North Americans think yield means ‘assume I’m going to proceed into this intersection and only brake if I have to while I’m rolling through the crosswalk’.
It mainly comes down to what other members of the travelway expect you to do. If you are predictable, your chances of conflicting with others is diminished. Unfortunately, unless you can convince lawmakers to make the change, a stop sign is going to mean come to a complete stop, which is also what others are expecting you to do.
Seems OK to me. The only issue would be if a cyclist not following the road rules causes a car or truck to take evasive action and this causes an accident with another vehicle.
Defos. Doesn’t matter what you’re driving, be predictable and you won’t get hurt.
Semi’s cause almost all fatal road accidents. I think a bigger blanket would only cause more issues
Do you have a source for that? The NHTSA 2019 data claims only 11% of fatal crashes involved large trucks, whereas 62% involved passenger vehicles.
A lot of cyclists also get hit by blowing stop signs. I have seen too many people who just zip through without looking.
People driving cars should absolutely be cautious, don’t get me wrong on that. That being said, right-of-way won’t matter much if you’re dead. All it takes is one ahole not paying attention while driving and it’s game over for the cyclist. You could also use your argument for pedestrians to cross wherever and whenever they want. Pedestrians won’t kill someone like a car would either, but they are also still at risk.
I don’t know, I’ve just never understood taking that risk over saving a short amount of time. I have genuinely seen some people who have made me wonder how they survived so long.
I agree that the Idaho Stop should be implemented in more places, though. I’m pro-yeild, and anti-blowing stop signs for everyone.
Yes I agree also, blowing through stop signs is terrible regardless of method of transportation. I should have been more clear in my advocating for Idaho stops earlier.
ya, all my close calls cycling were from other bikes and powered scooters blowing stop signs. we need proper respect for right of way.
Amish buggies must follow the same laws, so do motorcycles, mopeds, golf carts, side by sides, pedal pubs etc. Bikes, especially now with E bikes making them faster, should follow the same rule set unless they are using their own bike path separate from the road.
Just stop for the signs guys, no big deal.
You’re comparing apples to oranges with the vehicles though. Besides the Amish buggies, which are fairly rare, everything on that list is powered by a motor/engine of some variety except the bicycle. Look at the speed of bikes compared to any of those other vehicles, they’re not anywhere nearly as fast. The only exception is ebikes, but again, this is an argument for a tiered system where there are different rules for different vehicles as they all interact differently. Ebikes are still supposed to be restricted to 32 kph and 500 W motor max in Canada, which is far slower than any car can do. If people are modifying them to go faster then that’s a different issue to be addressed.
The road infrastructure and road rules are designed around cars. Instead of applying old laws not designed for them, we need different rules for bikes as the times are changing. More and more people are using bikes as a method of transportation, they’re no longer leisure use only.
E bikes are quicker to accelerate, but they’re not any faster. They cutoff the assistance before you get faster than 95% of people can get in their own.