Young voters overwhelmingly say they would support President Biden over former President Trump in a hypothetical head-to-head match-up if the 2024 presidential election were held today, according to a poll released Wednesday.
In the Economist/YouGov poll — conducted via web-based interviews Dec. 16-18 — more than half (53 percent) of registered voters under 30 said they would support Biden, and less than a quarter (24 percent) said they would support Trump.
Another 10 percent said they would support another candidate, 4 percent said they were not sure, and 9 percent said they wouldn’t vote.
Sure, Biden kinda sucks, but THE ALTERNATIVE IS ACTUAL FASCISM.
Lol no he doesnt
Yeah people catastrophise so badly when it comes to politics. Biden is bland, uninspired and gaff-prone - however, he is a safe pair of hands. Just because a politician does not make you excited does not mean they suck.
He said he’d veto a bill for universal healthcare. That sucks. It just sucks less than trump saying he wants to be a fucking dictator
Weaponized apathy
I actually care very much about having a boring president, thanks.
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You know that every POTUS since 1948, including Trump, has been a vocal supporter of Israel right?
The chips are on the table now to actually affect the path of Israel in its genocide of Palestinians though and Biden is out to lunch on it just smiling and patting the backs the IDF while occasionally saying “well, I don’t know if you should do thattt, we would be upset with you” with a rushed whisper following “but you still get all the bombs you want don’t worry!”
Biden doesn’t get a pass because this has been the politically easy default stance for presidents to have, his job is to be president and make choices and he has made some truly awful ones here that have directly allowed the mass murder of children.
“Kinda sucks” is not catastrophising.
No, Biden sucks and if you think he doesn’t you honestly need to turn off the crap cable news you are getting your news from.
Exhibit A, Biden essentially has taken the same path with immigration that Trump did and it is tragic and brutal. He just lets conservatives completely define the narrative “ohhh the border is OUT of control” republicans thousands of miles from the border say… and then implemented the same brutal policies. Now centrist liberals all of a sudden don’t seem to care so much about the brutality of what is happening to immigrants and their families just trying to improve their lives, but that is neoliberals for you. They care when the narrative says they should!
Also, there is the whole thing about Biden being the most powerful enabler of the horrific genocide in Palestine in the world and he seems to be totally fine with it beyond say some curt words for the murderers dropping the bombs.
Is Trump or any republican candidate worse? Absolutely, but Biden is not a great President. He is terribly suited to this moment in US politics and we can only hope everyone hates Trump enough to get Biden elected.
He’s a neolib and part of the ruling class. He does kinda suck.
Nah neolibs are dope as fuck.
Also there is no ruling class.
I mean … he does. He’s not as bad as he’s made out to be on most domestic issues, keeping in mind the limited power of the presidency and the fact congress holds the majority of the power. But he’s too fucking old. He’s made mistakes, and handling Israel with kid gloves is a problem.
I’m still voting for him because:
I believe we disagree on a few of his policy choices, and what we find good or bad. Democrats are a pretty big tent
I agree with your other points, at least conceptually. They’re good reasons.
like biden’s presidency
him and his vice got in office and immediately went back on campaign promises for cannabis, police reform, women’s rights, voter rights everything went to the shitter just like trump
now here we are AGAIN
and people screaming just vote HOW? not everyone has that right thanks to politicians like biden
https://truthout.org/articles/a-federal-court-will-decide-whether-atlanta-voters-could-have-a-say-on-cop-city/
cop city is happening under biden’s watch too
no difference with either demopublican
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/biden-promise-tracker/?ruling=true
Seems like he’s only went back on one campaign promise so far. He’s compromised on a few, he’s working on a third, got stalled on a third and has kept roughly a third.
Brother there’s a mile wide difference between “couldn’t keep campaign promises” and “literally running on a platform of ‘i will be a dictator for the first day’”
As a minority who will experience an enormous difference if Republicans win, this outlook is viscerally revolting.
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The alternative would have been a strong primary challenger, in a just world.
Im actually quite worried that Trump will be removed from all ballots by the supreme court and Biden will lose to Hailey.
I don’t think he will get removed from the ballots, at least not in current state. I feel like the argument is going to be the presumption of innocence until proven guilty; an indictment is unfortunately premature. We need to apply the law equally or we’ll get Republicans finding every way to do the same… albeit with no arguments for it.
I’d rather have Biden lose to Nikki Haley instead of Trump. Yes, I know she’s a legacy Tea Party candidate, I don’t want her, but at least she isn’t campaigning on ethnic cleansing and actually criticized R bullshit like TC&J.
She literally wants to wage war with Mexico and abolish the Department of Education, as per the first primary debate. She’s also a dangerous loon.
Ideally we would have a Democratic candidate that could wipe the floor with both of them regardless of who the GOP nominee is.
Biden is a Fascist Nazi already.
The alternative is a traitor who wants to be a dictator, who paice nazis… everything points for him to be a nazi, just tell.me, why that nazi traitor is a better alternative?
You can vote third party and not vote for genocode. Will you get thrown in jail for doing that like they do in China?
Both the main parties are literal Nazis now. This should be the perfect time to say “holy shit both parties are Nazis maybe it’s time for a new direction.”
With Trump’s rabid base guaranteed to turn out, a third party vote is a vote for Trump.
I agree it’s a time for a new direction. I don’t agree that either party is Nazis, that’s stupid hyperbole. And right now, with a second Trump term on the line, is not the time to push for a new direction. That would definitely be one of the worst things America could do to itself
Trump literally uses Nazi rhetoric. “Poisoning the blood of our country” is literally lifted right out of Mein Kampf.
You can vote 3rd party sure. You’re pissing your vote away and your voice won’t matter one iota, but sure, do that.
You and your both-sides people are going to burn out the meaning of the word Nazi with your hyperbole. It’s an insult to how depraved that historical moment actually was.
Lol, sure bud just remember, the republicans suddenly are angry at the president for giving aid to Israel, when they were the first ones who always pushed that aid before, but just because now is a Democrat they have an issue. That is hypocrisy.
Lol for starters the “bOtH sIdEs” argument is so stupid. On one hand you have a oarty that likes to appoint an autoritarian racist idiot, and the other is an old man that wants the starud quo… sire bud bOtH sIdEs.
Brutal take. Come back in 10 years after you’ve hit legal voting age.
How exactly? Give examples.
Biden has stood with the majority of the Democrats on almost every issue. If the Democrats overwhelmingly wanted to not fund Israel, he would probably stand by them. Unfortunately, most Democrats back Israel even more than Biden.
The saving grace is that Biden wants to avoid the war turning regional, making him not favor genocide done quickly. Israel can’t kick out Palestinians, as its neighbors will attack over the refugees. If Israel directly kills too many Palestinians, the neighbors will also attack. To not get dragged into a war, Biden wants the IDF to occupy Gaza and cause less collateral damage.
However, Netanyahu doesn’t want the war to deescalate, as the public will kick him and his party out once things settle down. He also doesn’t want the casualties and cost of occupying all of Gaza, as there would be more IDF fatalities. Reservists were already upset at Bibi, and if they took large enough casualties, even the military might not back him. His best option for maintaining power is to genocide Gaza and hope their neighbors don’t attack.
The US isn’t willing to withdraw support from Israel and actually motivate them to stand down. The Judeo-fascists are arrogant fools who think the US deterrent will keep them safe, but they’re playing with fire. If they directly piss off Hezbollah enough, or if they force refugees into Jordan and Egypt, or if they escalate with other Iranian backed forces, or if anyone makes a stupid blunder, everyone will pay in blood.
Biden isn’t doing anything to control israel. He has been a Zionazi for 50 years he said so himself a few days ago. He obeys Netanyahu’s will like a little dog wagging his tail. Genocide Joe is an israeli foreign agent.
The only reason israel hasn’t been invaded yet is Biden putting three aircraft carriers right next to them so they can continue their genocide with impunity. He removes all weapons restrictions on israeli war crimes while ignoring Ukraine like it doesn’t even exist anymore.
I’ve found that cartoon villaining those with shitty opinions leads people astray. You describe Biden like a bloodthirsty sociopath who gets pleasure from killing children and risking war. If you actually pay attention to liberals like him, you realize that a number of them are trying to do the right thing. Biden has a flawed view of what is right, but he’s probably not intentionally being a bad person. He probably thinks he’s as moral as he can be, sacrificing for “the greater good.”
Not every bad person lacks empathy or morals. Realizing how easy it is for you to unknowingly be the bad guy is hard. If you want an incorrect view that misses the nuance and complexity of real people, sure, remain ignorant. I can’t stop you.
JOE BIDEN BOMBS CHILDREN’S HOSPITALS FULL OF KIDS THAT ALREADY HAVE THEIR LEGS AMPUTATED FROM BEING BOMBED IN THEIR HOME!!
What the fuck is wrong with people thinking this shit is okay because it makes the military industrial complex some money holy shit.
Are you going to tell me Hitler had good intentions next??? “No we sided with the Nazi’s because that would further our strategic interests and less of our people would have to die!”
I’m not Biden as a cartoon villain. He is a cartoon villain.
I’d rather have 100.000 people die fighting the Nazis than 90.000 murdered by us joining the Nazis.
Having (what I think of as) a more accurate view of why people do evil things does not mean I think those evil things are ok. The world can sometimes be fair, life can be great, and people can be kind to one another. However, the world is often unfair, life can be cruel, and people can be awful to each other. I don’t have to like it because reality doesn’t exist for anyone. We exist inside of it and are along for the ride.
I refuse to walk away from my best understandings of reality because they aren’t pleasing. I hold a nihilist, deterministic, Hobbesian view of the world. I think we have limited freedom over our own actions and thoughts, we made up all ideas and concepts, and we can never have total certainty about anything. I embrace truths that most people refuse to acknowledge because they find those truths depressing. (I’m not superior than those people, but I am usually more correct.)
However, I still have an optimistic outlook and positive worldview. I think we can overcome our flaws and create a far fairer world. There is no God who cares about us or will save us, but we can save ourselves and care deeply about each other. The fact that there is no objective right and wrong doesn’t mean our morality and ethics are useless. There is no higher meaning outside our constructions, so the meaning we create is the highest meaning there is. We can damn well respect and believe in what we make.
I fully believe that Biden does evil shit, but malice and enjoyment of suffering probably don’t drive him. I won’t delude myself into thinking every evil action is done by a fundamentally evil person. Some people are genuinely evil, but most are not. Many people simply believe in evil systems of morality. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do what is necessary to stop them. A misguided killer and a sadistic killer will both threaten your life, so you can kill them both to defend yourself.
Punishment and responsibility are not inherently meaningful. Punishment and accountability can keep people from causing future harm. Assigning responsibility can reinforce values. Brutal punishment can even scare people into submission. However, you can’t make someone feel bad for their actions if they don’t want to. Making them suffer can only help you feel better.
Justice shouldn’t be thought of as righting the past. We can only make things better in the future. We should hang up the classic idea of justice for one that can actually materialize. Otherwise, justice will never be achieved in any way.
So you’re voting for the Genocide guy again???
That’s how you are going to achieve justice?
You would unironically humanize Hitler if he was alive. Genocide Joe is a scum of the earth piece of shit. I don’t care how much you think he looks like a warm grandpa. Biden should burn in hell along with Mao and Stalin.
I’m going to vote against the even worse genocide guy. Biden has been the least genocidal president since Carter, not because he’s great, but because Obama, Clinton, and every Republican were worse. Trump may have cheered on Hamas after October 7, but that was because he holds a personal grudge against Netanyahu for backing Biden’s presidential victory. Hillary probably wouldn’t have recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, precisely because it would inflame regional tensions. Trump only did it because he respects fascist strongman like Netanyahu. Republicans are so much worse, so Democrats are my pick by a mile.
Yes. I don’t like being disappointed because I expect the impossible. Bad people die happy and successful. Only gods can punish people the way you want, so it isn’t our job to attempt it. I don’t think hell exists, but even if it does, we can’t deliver its justice. We can only deliver human justice.
Hitler was not a demon or inhuman monster. He was only able to become such a vile being because he was as complex and powerful as a human. Him being a human doesn’t mean people shouldn’t have tortured him to death and displayed his corpse to be mocked. That evil brutality should be brutally squashed. At least he’ll be remembered for killing himself like the pathetic coward he was.
I don’t care if Biden is scum of the earth or if he burns in hell. The fact that you think I could only view Biden as human because I see him as a “warm grandfather” is telling. You can’t comprehend my way of viewing things. You refuse to accept that someone can see things as I describe, so you assert that I must actually like evil people because I acknowledge their humanity.
Personhood is an essential part of evil, not mutually exclusive to it. Unless I see evidence of evil outside of humans and similar beings, I’ll stand by my analysis.
You guys aren’t going to convince anyone to vote with the lesser of evils spiel. Shit’s gonna get bad and all you had to do was pick a real candidate.
What do you think happened in 2020?
Biden made a bunch of promises and acted like progressives and leftists actually had a seat at the table. The BBB, student loan, weed legalization, rail strike and gaza genocide have made it clear: We do not.
We gave him a chance and he gave us the finger.
You do realize that Biden can’t just declare things into law, right?
For the first two years, Biden had a Democratic House that could theoretically pass anything he wanted, but a Senate which was split nearly 50-50. If they didn’t get every vote, they could fail to pass a bill. And this doesn’t even get into the filibuster which would tank bills unless 60 votes were reached or the fact that Manchin and Sinema frequently acted to sink Democratic bills despite technically being Democrats. Biden could put some pressure on them, but his options were limited. It’s not like he could hold a gun to their heads and force them to vote on favor of bills
Since January, Biden has had a Democratic Senate with a razor thin margin and a Republican House. This threw even more wrenches in the works.
And then there’s the Supreme Court. Thanks to Mitch McConnell, Trump, and the Republicans, the Supreme Court has a huge conservative majority. So Biden can try to take action for things like forgiving student loans, but then Republicans sue, the case ends up in the Supreme Court and the conservative justices rule that Biden isn’t allowed to do this by law. (He’s managed to find a way to forgive some loans even if it wasn’t as much as he wanted to do.)
Putting all the blame on Biden and saying “he didn’t fulfill all his promises” is disingenuous. He hasn’t exactly had the Congress and Supreme Court that could support what he wanted to do. Could he have done everything anyway and proclaimed that he makes the laws now? Perhaps, but then he’d be a fascist dictator and not working within our political system - exactly the type of thing that Trump wants to do and is properly criticized for.
It’s funny, the student loan thing was literally decided by the supreme Court reiterating that executive branch rulemaking can’t be done capriciously, and people are still pushing this patently false idea that Biden can legalize pot with the stroke of his pen.
Right. And Biden still managed to get some student loan forgiveness through.
I get people being upset when politicians don’t fulfill all their promises, but campaign promises tend to be aspirational statements. Once the politician gets into office, they run into the cold hard reality of how the government works.
This happens with every politician. It would be interesting to see all the promises that politicians from Reagan on made to see how well they kept them. I know there are some sites that track this, but I’m not sure they go that far back. It would be interesting to see if Biden is on par, ahead, or behind the average Presidential promises fulfilled.
I’ll give him credit for fighting for student loans (though he chose a stupid strategy and doesn’t seem to understand basic aspects of negotiation?), I give him zero credit for fighting for a minimum raise increase because of “the parliamentarian”….??
These two things are not the same and are regulated by different laws. By your logic we could conclude that Biden couldn’t do anything.
It’s also important to note that Biden used the weakest legal reasoning available to him when canceling student load debt. Debtor advocates were very critical of him at the time for doing that because it increased the likelihood it would be shot down in court.
Buddy, you seem to misunderstand something here. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. If you want to believe Biden deserves your vote go nuts. It makes no difference to me.
But I’m telling you as someone who voted for him in the 2020 general: Fuck Joe Biden. Do whatever you want with that information. But trust no amount of these excuses will change my mind. I was already angry I had to give him a chance in 2020 after people voted for him in the primaries specifically to fuck over progressive and leftist efforts. I held up my end of the bargain. Biden and the people who elected him in the primaries did not.
Fuck Joe Biden for screwing up the BBB. Fuck Joe Biden for negotiating down from $50k student loan forgiveness. Fuck Joe Biden for waiting until after the midterms to fuck over the rail workers. Fuck Joe Biden for blocking the strike. Fuck Joe Biden for supporting Israel against our wishes.
For someone who needs the votes of people like me to win the 2024 general election he sure ain’t fucking acting like it. He can go fuck himself along with everyone who voted for him in the primaries.
Ok, so I get that you are privileged enough that you can probably ride out Trumpist fascism without much real damage, at least for a while. Just understand that there are many vulnerable people who will be seriously harmed by your decision to do anything besides voting for Biden. This isn’t dooming or trying to scare you into a vote, it’s a simple statement of fact.
If you are fine with that moral liability, then carry on.
Funny, that’s precisely how I view the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries. Where’s your ire for them?
So who you voting for then?
Definitely not trump or Biden. If a decent 3rd party candidate shows I’ll go that route otherwise I’ll just write in.
Gotcha, well that sounds pretty worthless.
You’re angry because you’re ignorant, and because of that, you’re threatening to not vote for the best option in the general election out of spite. Not voting or voting for anyone but Biden is an effective vote for his opponent, which at this time appears to be Trump. So you honestly think that there is anyone else currently running that you think would better represent your interests than the guy that had actually tried to do just that without the needed support?
You can hate the guy all you want, but check in on the reasons you listed and gain a better understanding of the situation around them so you can see how far off you are.
How about in just a high level way, explain how someone could have realistically handled those situations in a better way that would have benefits the country better. Student Loans, Rail Strike, and Israel, how would you have pleased everyone?
Call it whatever you want. But Biden is depending on a lot of votes from people like me to win the 2024 election. Would you rather deal with us or MAGA?
If you don’t vote for the front runner on the Democratic ticket in the general, then there’s no difference. If you’re even considering, at this stage, not voting for the assumed candidate, Biden, then you’re no better than maga. I’m not out here to convince you that he’s great. I’m just saying you threw some blanket, bullshit reasons out, then act like there’s a better choice. In reality, there’s not. You can piss and moan all you want, but the general election is not the place to take a stand.
I doubt I’m going to change your mind at all, but I just want to let you know your information about the rail strike is incorrect. Biden did help secure sick pay for those workers, here’s part of the statement from the IBEW:
“We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.”
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
The student loan aid was also legally blocked by Congress, and the military budgets were also passed by Congress. There’s no magic wand to a lot of the problems you seem to have with Biden, unfortunately. He isn’t the sole authority in the US govt.
This is the unfortunate danger of populism generally. Bernie promised big things with no clear nor realistic path to delivering them, and people who are political rookies think he would have been solely capable of achieving those things through fervent advocacy or belief alone.
Sweeping populist rhetoric slams into actual reality with similar velocity whether it’s Trump’s or Sanders’ when actually put into office. Very similarly to how Trump being elected in 2016 didn’t magically erect a giant border wall, Sanders being elected would not have resulted in us getting single payer healthcare, changed every long-term military alliance we had with others, eliminated the military industrial complex, nor canceled all student loans.
These things are all from a position of “well, the politician just didn’t believe enough!” and no matter how fervent the belief, it takes a long time to affect change in the American system. Even illegally and forcefully turning America completely fascist is a multi-term project, which is why we don’t have grand fuhrer trump this moment.
Because those people don’t have a basic understanding of how the 3 branches of government actually work.
If I’m elected to congress I’ll work towards passing a law mandating all licensed broadcasters run 24 hour marathons of School House Rock and other “USA civics edutainment for children” shows on a set date every year.
That doesn’t justify anyone voting for Biden over Bernie or the other options in the 2020 primaries.
Because all student loans forgiven have been forgiven via executive order, Biden is literally the only person who didn’t give you the finger over it
Didn’t the courts strike down his student loan forgiveness plan? If you support the plan, blame the courts, not Biden.
Biden used the weakest legal argument available to him increasing the likelihood it would get struck down. Debtor advocates were not pleased with his decision and that was before the lawsuit. He does bear some responsibility for its failure in court.
Well buddy, you’re in a two party system. You going to just give a literial fascist a chance because Biden wasn’t able to wrangle the crazies on the other side to agree all the time?
that’s cutting of your nose to spite your face in the worst way.
Nope. I’m just not going to prop up a candidate in the general election who was voted on in the primaries specifically to fuck over progressives and leftists. The people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries can go fuck themselves.
Yes but the part of this you keep dodging is that any Republican is worse. They have all the negatives of Biden plus a bunch of additional terrible stuff. You may not like the system, none of us here fucking do, but it’s either Biden or someone worse. When gay marriage and divorce are illegal, and bibles are the only book allowed in school, try to remind yourself how Biden would have been just as bad. Both sides are not the same, they’re both bad sure, but one is so much worse than the other, it’s ludicrous that people can’t wrap their minds around this.
Then the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries should have made a better decision. They can go fuck themselves.
So do you see this as punishment for liberals? Because it will not punish the people you want it to.
Another “centrist” claiming “bOtH sIdEs”
Seems legit.
You really think anyone voting for Biden in 2020 had high hopes he’d be a really progressive candidate? People didn’t want him then and we don’t want him now, but as long as we’re dealing with actual nazis on the other side I don’t see how the choice has fundamentally changed in 4 years.
I don’t think anyone who supported say Bernie or Warren thought that Biden was a progressive. However, there were attempts made by the Biden campaign to appeal to progressives. After Bernie lost, Biden and Bernie staffers actually collaborated to release a joint list of policy proposals. I think that gave a lot of progressives false hopes for what a Biden presidency could be.
Not high hopes no. But higher and considering the very thin margin he won by in the 2020 general that’s a pretty important point Biden apologists seem to want to sweep under the rug.
Democrats are in an abusive relationship - it’s just better than the alternative.
There were plenty of better alternatives in the 2020 primaries than Biden. People voted him specifically to fuck over Progressives and Leftists. They’d rather lose to MAGA than leftists.
A lot of people voted for Biden in the primaries because they were being told he had the best chance of beating Trump. Plenty of those people actually favored the policy proposals of other candidates.
This is a messaging problem then. The message that other candidates had a good chance against Trump didn’t resonate as much as the message that Biden had a good chance. We need to figure out why that is if we hope to change that.
Leftists are not and will never be popular in the US, even if specific causes they support are popular.
That’s your messaging problem. You need to make your causes seem and feel less extreme.
Republicans didn’t start with Trump. They inched there.
Read into that message a bit more and what you get is: “We voted for Biden in the primaries in order to fuck over progressive and leftists efforts.” Now those same people are expecting our votes in the general? They can get fucked.
So you’re willing to throw away our democracy and freedom, just so you can get revenge on Biden and everyone who voted for him. He barely has any power and can only sign bills that the house republicans are willing to pass.
You really need to get over this persecution complex.
2020 was extremely high stakes and the general population doesn’t think the way you do, and it wasn’t about fucking anyone over.
If you’re not going to hold your nose and sit out from picking a centrist and a far-right fascist, good luck ever getting any leftist policies implemented ever. Cutting off your nose to spite your face isn’t how we move forward.
I know I won’t change your mind, but try to at least practice some introspection instead of telling everybody to “get fucked”. The stakes are even higher this year than in 2020, and your choices are maybe a little bit the next four years and some real change after, or no chance ever. Throwing a fit will push us toward the latter.
Honey, nobody was even thinking about you. Maybe if you spent the last 50 years shaping the political ecosystem to be more receptive to your ideals, like the fascists did, you might have actually have a political presence worth noting. You lost the long game, now all that’s left is damage control.
Maybe you don’t understand the stakes. Biden is the lesser of two evils, and no other candidate is anywhere near popular enough to take on Trump. Biden is the only ethical vote.
Sounds like democracy is already dead then.
People felt the absurdity. It’s been four years. The wound isn’t festering anymore.
Yeah, it’s not at all the fault of you idiots who don’t understand the realities of a two party system
I’ve been saying this for years. It’s kind of not really a choice, as much as it sucks. Let’s just hope enough people actually turn out to vote