Bananas are ridiculously cheap even up here in Canada, and they aren’t grown anywhere near here. Yet a banana can grow, be harvested, be shipped, be stocked, and then be purchased by me for less than it’d cost to mail a letter across town. (Well, if I could buy a single banana maybe…or maybe that’s not the best comparison, but I think you get my point)
Along the banana’s journey, the farmer, the harvester, the shipper, the grocer, the clerk, and the cashier all (presumably) get paid. Yet a single banana is mere cents. If you didn’t know any better, you might think a single banana should cost $10!
I’m presuming that this is because of some sort of exploitation somewhere down the line, or possibly loss-leading on the grocery store’s side of things.
I’m wondering what other products like bananas are a lot cheaper than they “should” be (e.g., based on how far they have to travel, or how difficult they are to produce, or how much money we’re saving “unethically”).
I’ve heard that this applies to coffee and chocolate to varying extents, but I’m not certain.
Anyone know any others?
Surprised nobody said meat yet. Current prices are only possible through gigantic subsidies and the blatant disregard for even the most basic of animal wellbeing and that’s not even starting to factor in the environmental and climate damage meat production ensues.
I agree with you but there are more ethical ways to eat meat while also saving money. Last year my wife and I purchased 1/4 of an entire cow from a farm about 35 miles north of us (friends and family bought the other 3/4). This cow was responsibly raised, grass fed, on a small, local farm. We received 200 pounds of meat with probably a dozen different cuts of meat. This includes dozens of pounds of excellent steak and the meat is simply amazing. We will definitely be going this route moving forward as we averaged the price per pound to ~$4/lb which is far less than the local grocery.
I understand this isn’t possible for everyone as we also had to purchase a chest freezer which requires space but has made our grocery bill far smaller and the meat we are eating much better in many ways.
The problem is that you are still contributing to demand for meat. It would be impossible to meet all of the current demand by “ethical” means, so the only way for meat to become more ethical across the whole industry is for the demand for meat to go down massively (or the supply is reduced by legislation). And I don’t see that legislation being likely if people are still so invested in eating meat.
the only way for meat to become more ethical across the whole industry is for the demand for meat to go down massively (or the supply is reduced by legislation).
this presupposes that ethical production is not the norm despite animal welfare laws and humane slaughter being the norm in the entire developed world, and also shows a great lack of imagination and a misunderstanding of economic theories.
industry creates is own demand. you aren’t going to stop big meat by buying beans. there use no amount of beans you can buy that will change how many head of cattle a rancher keeps.
Factory farming is indeed legal. You seem to be suggesting that it is ethically defensible as well. That’s a serious stretch if you know what it really looks like, even in the most restrictive jurisdictions, i.e. Western Europe. The only charitable explanation is that you have not looked into the subject very deeply.
what I said is that animal welfare laws and humane slaughter laws are the norm in the western world. I said nothing about legality of factory farming implying morality. I’m saying there are legal restrictions to ensure it is humane.
Yes, and I am saying that you clearly do not understand the reality of what goes on in the average factory farm. Or do not care. But I prefer to imagine that it’s ignorance, that is less disturbing.
you have no basis for these accusations. you have no idea what I know or what I care about.
Even if the cow is responsibly raised, there’s still the question of how it was conceived. No farmer simply let’s a bull on top of a cow, since our modern cows are too big to safely mate. So usually a cow is artificially inseminated, which is an inherently violent procedure. The milk industry could simply not exist without this institutionalized rape
As you said, they can’t mate… so what’s your solution? Let them go extinct and we lose not only a beautiful creature but a significant part of our species food source and history? We’ve been drinking milk and eating beef since the dawn of animal husbandry
Wait you’re saying it’s better to be genetically experimented on, caged, forced to breed, and be killed in your early adulthood than not have children?
That’s it’s actually more ethical to make a creature who you later kill for your own pleasure than not to do that? because the alternative is only wild cows and cowlike creatures existing?
They’re living beings, not museum exhibits ffs. Species don’t have preferences, individuals do.
they didn’t say any of what you said.
you are arguing with a strawman.
That’s what a farm is. They’re saying we should keep farming them or else they would go extinct and that would be worse than continuing to farm them.
they did not say what you said. you are putting words in their mouth.
Point out the wild bovine to me bruh, they don’t exist, they’re one of the many species dépendant upon humans for their survival.
Ummm. Are you serious?
Very frustrating to argue with people who claim to have no concern for living creatures when in fact they probably love their dog or cat and would find it just as hard as anyone else to watch a video of what goes on in factory farms. Food choices are such a fundamental part of human culture that most people just cannot stand having them questioned, it’s as if you are questioning their religion. Alas.
this reads like an appeal to ridicule, not a rebuttal
>it’s actually more ethical to make a creature who you later kill for your own pleasure
no one is doing that
What is meat farming? in most of the world at this point in time it’s much more efficient to eat plants. Nobody with access to a supermarket is eating only what meat they might need to survive with no alternatives, you eat it for pleasure. For this pleasure someone must die, therefore you kill them for pleasure.
if you are buying food in a supermarket your not killing anything except maybe lobsters
you literally don’t know what anyone else needs. you can’t dictate the diet that is right for them.
>it’s better to… breed…than not have children?
the highest benefit to any organism is to pass it’s genetic material to another generation.
benefit for whom?
for the DNA
That’s only really true in dairy. Most meat cows are conceived using ‘natural cover’, where several bulls are just left with the ladies to do their thing.
artificial insemination isn’t rape. it’s a veterinary procedure
If I artificially inseminated you would you feel raped?
I’m not a cow and I somehow doubt you are a veterinarian
So it would be abhorrent right? What makes it ok to do to a cow then? Is it the prop stethoscope? the certificate of graduation on the wall? Do cows just not matter? if so why not?
if you have something to say, say it. what I said is true.
cows aren’t people.
Their method isn’t perfect, but taking steps is a good thing, imo
I wish I could do that. Gotta save up for a chest freezer and hope I can make it work! Lol
Yes but did the cow go to college? Was it provided with cable TV? These cows live boring farm lives, and we could do so much better.
I started eating substantially less meat over the last 10 years. The money I save eating less goes towards higher quality meats from small farms. Weirdly, it depends on if you know where to go. If you buy from a farm that also butchers and packages the meat, it’s going to cost and arm and a leg because they are selling both convenience and are aware that audience they are selling to has more money. However, if you purchase say 1/2 a cow and arrange to have it butchered, you pay a lot upfront, but it’s even cheaper in the long run. Only problem is, you’ll likely need a chest freezer.
Yeah, I’ve been making efforts to reduce meat from my diet for plenty of reasons. But I enjoy the taste, so I’m excited for lab-grown meat!
I loved the taste of meat and it kept me from quitting for years, and I will say that I don’t miss it nearly as much as I thought I would.
There will be too much pushback for that to make an impact in a hurry.
The most exciting one is plant based eggs and milk, because a LOT of people who wont buy a lab grown steak also wont read the back of the box of cookies to see of it uses real milk and eggs. Mass produced processed foods will use the shit out of it if its cheaper.
I would argue that of the three items you listed (bananas, coffee, chocolate) that the main reason those items are “cheap” is exploitation of the workers and economies of the global south.
https://daily.jstor.org/fruit-geopeelitics-americas-banana-republics/
This is just one popular science article on the topic, and it just brushes the surface of how colonial politics have stripped the global south of resources while simultaneously building capital in the global north.
This single pane comic is the jist of it.
Hold up. We exploit South America pretty hard too.
Absolutely, the comic was from a piece on Imperialism from Europe in Africa, but a more comprehensive one would show the entire global south dug up.
China is currently colonizing Africa and SE Asia as well.
What about Asia? Are we forgetting Africa is China’s China right now?
100%. Exploitation is not limited to one continent or group of people.
If China does to Africa what they did to themselves, that would be awesome!
Enslaving and killing ethnic groups en masse, creating a surveillance police state, imprisoning people for criticizing the government, making their people work in sweat shops to rule and manipulate global manufacturing, collecting personal information on every person on earth, militarily and financially supporting the worst despots on the planet?
Why are you talking about the US? And literally what the Europeans did to Africa for centuries.
Yes, both are terrible. Africa should be run by Africans.
And that’s exactly what China does? They don’t do unilateral trade agreements. They don’t impose their policies on countries they make deals with. They are equal partners. Which is why most countries in Africa prefer China as a partner than the US or EU nowadays…
Southeast Asia, Australia, and parts of the US chosen to accommodate for national debt would like to have a word with you.
People don’t ever seem to want to talk about demographics in China, I can’t figure out why 🤔 maybe the fact that it’s an ethnostate…
“This Jacobo, he’s making us pay minimum wages!.. and that’s not all, he’s taking our unused land and giving it back to the people! Does that sound familiar?”
Without a doubt. And when it’s things that can only grow in those parts of the world, it can be harder to find alternatives.
Not that I can afford them, lol
Snack cakes. Do you want to know why America has an obesity epidemic?
Because a whole box of Swiss cake rolls is $2.50 at Walmart and a deli salad is $5.00.Yeah, but they can keep those deli snack cakes on the shelf for years until they’re sold; you have to throw the salad out after a couple days. /s
It’s not much different in Canada. I strongly dislike all the HFCS-sweetened stuff.
The United States subsidizes the hell out of dairy products. Dairy (and by extension, beef) is way, way cheaper than it should be.
For anyone curious about this, go google “cheese caves”. The US government has massive caverns full of cheese. The government keeps buying cheese to subsidize the dairy industry, and ensure they keep enough dairy cows around.
But this also means they have a metric fuckload of cheese, and no way to get rid of it. They can’t just give it away to the public or sell it at cost, because that would crash the price, which would harm the farmers, which would defeat the entire purpose of the subsidy in the first place. So they just lock it in a cave. The government has entire caves that are just packed full of cheese. It’ll never be eaten, and is simply left there to age.
I believe one of the biggest reasons for even keeping the cheese around at all (instead of just doing something like tossing it into a volcano) is so they can use it as a strategic food reserve during war or famine. If, for instance, the government suddenly needs to feed a much larger army, it can start tapping into that massive food reserve simply by opening the cheese caves and pulling out the (now very aged) cheese. But that’s a very large “what if”. Or maybe there’s some big disease that wipes out the majority of the dairy cows. The government would be able to keep shelves stocked while farmers work on replenishing their herds.
Government cheese is called that for a reason. Anyways I totally agree with you but it’s interesting so I’m just providing a link for anyone who is interested in learning more.
Government cheese is a commodity cheese that was controlled by the US federal government from World War II to the early 1980s. Government cheese was created to maintain the price of dairy when dairy industry subsidies artificially increased the supply of milk and created a surplus of milk that was then converted into cheese, butter, or powdered milk. The cheese, along with the butter and dehydrated milk powder, was stored in over 150 warehouses across 35 states.
Isn’t there the thing where the cheese needs to age by just sitting there, the farmer needs cash flow, so the cheese is put up as collateral. (But yes there is government cheese too.)
I was always wonder how the heck did beef and milk are so cheap in US. I live in south Asia btw. Our income and wages are dog shit compared to the USA, yet our (normal) beef cost US$15 per kilo (the “good stuffs” could cost up to US$25 per kilo).
Rice. A 20lb bag can provide 70% of your food volume for a month and costs like $10. Easily the best poverty food hack there is.
Unfortunately a lot of rice is contaminated with arsenic due to pesticides. The only way to remove the arsenic also removes most of its nutrients. So you might be better off going for a different grain like wheat, oats or barley.
Arsenic aside, rice is probably one of the best deals when you consider how long a bag can feed you.
Seems like quite the FDA violation. Is it true?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10375490/#:~:text=The investigation concluded that the,'%20dry%2Dbrown%20rice%20cereal.
It should be an FDA violation, but the demand for rice is powerful and rice is a staple food for much of the world. It’s like if the FDA tried to ban alcoholic beverages because they contain toxic chemicals (alcohol.)
As far as I know just cooking the rice with enough water solves the arsenic problem for the most part.
This is true for white rice. But using a lot of water also removes the vitamin fortification and makes it less nutritious. So you are left with the dilemma or either eating the arsenic or losing the vitamins.
For brown rice, no amount of water can remove all the arsenic since a lot more of it is in the outer part of the grain. This is unfortunate because in all other respects brown rice is the healthier option.
Also, some regional varieties of rice have less arsenic than others. Basically avoid rice grown in any country that uses or has ever used arsenic based pesticides. Even then, the rice will have a little arsenic since it is a naturally occurring mineral.
That is good to know, thank you 🙂.
We can’t grow rice in Canada, so that definitely applies to us! Still cheap here, though.
Just about all of it.
Most farming gets subsidised. This is a good thing. You want excess in the system. You’ve seen what the free markets did to housing. You don’t want that happening to food.
The slavery-in-all-but-name isn’t such a good thing, but hey-ho.
Removed by mod
Our housing market is not a free market because government heavily suppresses the supply side.
beef, corn, and almonds
beef takes up an incredible amount of land and water per ‘unit’ nutrition and has a profound impact on the local and global environment. it has an artificially low cost due to subsidies and cheap grain (corn) feed.
feed corn isnt really consumable by humans and takes a large percentage of land. its price is kept low by subsidies.
almonds take a lot of water to grow and are commonly grown in regions where water is scarce and is provided to farmers for little to no monetary cost with few restrictions
Where are you that almonds are cheap?
i never said they were, lol
Pretty much all food. I can work for 5 minutes and buy 700 Calories’ worth of trail mix. My work consists of walking around a climate controlled room answering questions about things people are buying.
This means that with 15 minutes per day of effort, I get a diet more consistent than my ancestors could get with six hours of work per day.
Food is ridiculously cheap around me.
Bananas happen to be very productive plants. One banana plant produces hundreds of bananas. The further lowering of the cost comes from economy of scale and fucking over workers and nature.
Dry beans. A $2 bag makes a massive pot.
But when you think about it, beans should be cheaper than meat or something. Yeah a bag makes a whole bunch of beans but it’s straight ground to plate vs feeding a cow from birth. In fact relatively speaking of seems like the bean to cow cost ratio is out of proportion, the beans should be cheaper or the cow should be more.
Right but consider the work involved in gathering a pound of beans. One can get beans for far less work than that.
Does water count? It’s the first thing that always comes to mind for me. I’m certainly not complaining, but it amazes me that, no matter where you go, water, even clean water, is universally free. It’s certainly not unlimited.
That does depend on where you are in the world. Even in North America, not everyone can just turn on a tap.
As well, it’s generally our tax dollars that go to treating and supplying it. So we do pay for it.
That said, you’re absolutely right. It’s my favourite thing to drink, and it probably wouldn’t be if I had to pay for every glass! Lol
Our tax dollars pay for it because a significant portion of the population is dead inside a week if the tap water stops or becomes unsafe. The government takes care of it because the populace can’t be trusted to take care of themselves lol
So as you said, it’s not free really, but there’s a really good reason for that
Access to clean drinking water should be a human right. Water shouldn’t cost anything. So it can never be too cheap.
As opposed to other foods?
Coffee and Chocolate for sure. Their prices rely really heavily on slavery or something so very near it you’re splitting hairs by drawing a line.
And even then, with chocolate, costs are rising. You can tell by how prevalent things like “chocolatey chips” are.
We’ve gotten too used to having cheap coffee and chocolate, and I’m disappointed with the substitutes…too bad I can’t afford the ethical stuff quite yet, lol
To be fair, banana are only cheap in North America compared to the cost of other fruits. Bananas are pretty expensive if you consider you can get around 8-10 for a dollar in places where they are local.
I can get 4 for a dollar where I live in the States
Yes and 8 for a dollar seems to be twice what you’d get.
Ramen always surprises me by how it remains consistently cheap
Yeah it’s cheap, but I miss when it was $0.10/pack cheap, cheaper than dirt.
Lol I’m the same way. Ramen was 10 for $1 when I was in college. Now any time I see it in the store for like 30 cents a piece, I miss the good ol days.
And I’m thankful for it!
It kind of makes sense though. Pasta is cheap too. Most ramen packs are less noodles than you’d get in a bag of pasta, but with a bit of packaged salt/seasoning mix. It can also be manufactured anywhere with stuff that grows locally (at least where I am).
Always thought garlic bread is such a steal. Often you can get 2 (small) baguettes for less than £1 and G Bread is so good. When my plans of world domination come in, free garlic bread for everyone is first on the agenda.
I’m not sure if world domination usually comes with an election, but I’d vote for you!
