• CatratchoPalestino [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    yours is not the only one captivated. mine and many across latin america are so captivated we actually elect these people to power lol. it’s fine anyway since I selfishly want the government in iran to remain in power long enough to kill israel you can selfishly want the anti-american governments to stay in power to oppose your country. also honduras is a western country too lmao

    • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
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      1 year ago

      you can selfishly want the anti-american governments to stay in power to oppose your country. also honduras is a western country too lmao

      Yes this is exactly the point being made here. Its not even selfish. Its just how Lenininst antiimperalism works. Wanting American hegenomy to be hurt as an American is actually the opposite of selfish?

      Also for the last line, yes its in the western hemisphere but its not part of the imperial core. Which is why we carefully use that language instead. The tem “western” is fairly useless for this reason.

        • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          No, I think Latin America has more in common with itself. Tons of countries in Asia and Africa (basically every country) has significant and sometimes complete fluency in a European language, and are Christian, but not considered Western.

          Not to mention that many Latin American countries and subregions have huge cultural influences from regional Native American cultures and enslaved Africans

          Latin America has never received economic benefits from the Western umbrella in the way that the EU states have. And they probably never will, and their racial origin is the most major reason for this. They are not Western.

          • Odo [any]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Latin America has been westernized by continuous economical, cultural, and imperialist influence by the United States (and other global north countries), it doesn’t make sense to think of our countries as some non-Western society, it’s inaccurate and a bad framework to try to change our life. Our religions have been westernized, our mode of production is capitalism, our cultural references are western cultural products, our music is dependent on western notions of what is “good” music. The products that we buy and we sell, that we most value are influenced by westernized perceptions of value.

            Yes, there are bubbles, territories, regions, where this is not true, maybe even glimpses in everyday life, but it’s not the case for the vast majority of people living in Latin America. We may not be part of the west in a historical sense, but we are westernized countries living in the world that the West has created for us with violence.

            • Latin America has been westernized by continuous economical, cultural, and imperialist influence by the United States (and other global north countries), it doesn’t make sense to think of our countries as some non-Western society, it’s inaccurate and a bad framework to try to change our life.

              I’m going to paste what I said in another comment replying to another user just because it mostly applies here too.

              Look, neither you or I get to define what “the West” means. It is a racist concept, but that’s the unfortunate reality of the situation. “The West” is not defined by who thinks they should belong to it, it’s defined by the material reality of exploitation. It’s nearly synonymous with “Imperial Core.” If you’re in the periphery, you are not part of “The West” no matter how much your society mirrors so-called western culture. Just as a regular worker is not part of the bourgeoisie no matter how much they want to be. There are the exploiters and the exploited. Latam, on the global stage, is exploited by the imperial core and there is no escaping that fact. The exploiters will never see it as part of their club because they’re exploiting it! It’s not like we (hexbears or leftists in general) see this as a good thing or want to perpetuate it. We want to tear it the fuck down. But we can’t deny material reality, and it seems like that’s what you’re trying to do by insisting that Latam is western and getting mad at us for the fact that it’s largely racism that determines who belongs to the in-group “Western” and who doesn’t.

              We may not be part of the west in a historical sense, but we are westernized countries living in the world that the West has created for us with violence.

              Absolutely. So you do see it is “The West” that unfortunately gets to define who belongs in the club, and it does so via violence. The West has violently created the world you live in, but that does not make the world you live in part of it, no matter how many people around you mistakenly think it does.

        • Frogmanfromlake [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          I agree with you as a Guatemalan. I’ve always considered our countries part of the West and think it’s a little patronizing how richer Western nations don’t consider us Western. The diaspora like to push this idea that we’re majority indigenous and that indigenous cultures are more prevalent than they actually are.

          We’re kind of like the Balkans. They go on and off as to whether or not we’re included as Western or not.

          • CatratchoPalestino [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            I’m palestinian honduran so I wouldn’t even bother trying to argue with the few people I’d run into that seriously consider race what makes someone western. I still don’t see why it matters so much to american leftists tho. is bashing on the west too awkward for them if you include poorer countries in the americas and balkans? I don’t get the point in bashing anyway I’m not gonna feel guilty for being born in the west