In all honesty, most people that hate current trek don’t hate it because it’s too woke, they hate it because it’s just generic trash. Classic trek didn’t care much about big space battles, loads of pew pew and great action shots. Classic trek cared about great stories. The ships were places where people actually worked and lived together.
Current trek (anything after enterprise) has horrible story lines, horrible dialogue, is mostly about dump action pew pew and CGI, ignores 50 years of history, is all about fuck this, fuck that and fucking fuck you and honestly: it isn’t woke: it’s only virtue signalling.
Classic trek was woke by making great stories about real issues in society. New trek is just a sad shadow of what it used to be.
I was never bothered by new trek being too woke because it isn’t.
To quote a really shitty show: sheer fucking hubris.
Current trek (anything after enterprise) has horrible story lines, horrible dialogue, is mostly about dump action pew pew and CGI, ignores 50 years of history, is all about fuck this, fuck that and fucking fuck you and honestly: it isn’t woke: it’s only virtue signalling.
To claim that all iterations of modern Trek are a homogenous unit cut from one singular cloth tells me that either you haven’t actually even attempted to watch even half of it, or you’re completely blinded by personal biases. Either way, your opinion would be easy to discard even if it wasn’t a rant only tangentially related to the original post.
I’m with you, I did not really like 1-2 much (despite liking the characters, sets, costumes music, etc.) and 3 was an improvement, but season 4 I actually thought was phenomenal and what I want to see more of in Trek, specifically the slower pacing and big weird alien-aliens, and a conflict not solved with pew pews.
I feel similarly with Enterprise, Season 4 of ENT was so good, so I’m excited to see if DSC S5 can keep it up.
Discovery was a rollercoaster for me. It kept having moments that made me think it was getting its stuff together and then instead of sticking the landing it would fall flat on it’s face.
So you’re saying I should be chewed to death with Dijon mustard? I don’t get why every time I barge into a thread and drop a completely unrelated turd of a reddit brained opinion someone like you always shows up to bully me.
Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks have been pretty good at scratching the classic itch I think. But yeah I do agree that picard and discovery suffer from a problem that a lot of Marvel and DC comics these days suffer from. They dont slow down and spend every arc going from a threat THAT WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING to another threat that WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING. So many universe ending events.
Yeah, there’s a difference between a well written stories that take on social issues and really breaks down the ethics of them in an interesting and entertaining way and a poorly written story that’s trying to do something vaguely similar and completely fails to accomplish anything other than just mentioning that social issues exist.
It’s a weird feeling where I agree with what they’re trying to do but it’s so painful to watch them constantly fail.
A bad thing about the anti-woke thing is it’s hard to criticize things that have good intentions but have bad execution without being lumped in with the assholes. And I feel like poor writing won’t improve when there’s that excuse of “well they’re just hateful anti-woke assholes” to fall back on.
Okay so what’s your take on the core dilemma presented by the villain in Prodigy? Given an apparent choice between isolation and extinction, what do you think the right resolution is? Personally I think the conflict mirrors the real world isolation of Sentinel Island. And with the Sentinelese in mind, it starts feeling culturally insensitive to say isolation has no cultural excuse.
Or do you think the question posed by Prodigy is overly simple?
Well said. I don’t think new Trek has been too “woke” (whatever that means because no one can define it). The only one that was over the top was that kid who was non-Trill that had a symbiont. For being in the 31st century (or whatever) they focused too much on his they/them nonsense. You’re not suppose to mention it. When you make a thing of it, it doesn’t come across as normal. That’s like TOS making a big deal of a black woman working on the bridge. Sure, in reality it was a big deal at the time, but being set in the 23rd century it should be normal by then.
New Trek sucks for all the reasons you said. God awful writing, poor dialog, and plenty of bad actors. No character development. I can only remember a few characters names from Discovery. The rest I just physically describe: chick with metal on half of face, robot chick, darked haired guy and blonde chick who stood in the back of the bridge sometimes, and chick with African name.
I only continued to watch it for Stamets (after he chilled out), Saru, and Georgiou.
And it was a scene of, what, 30 seconds where they stated what their pronouns were, then it was never mentioned again? How is that focusing too much on it?
You’re not suppose to mention it.
Unless everyone’s a mind reader, nobody’s going to know what a person’s pronouns are unless they tell them. They did, and that was that.
It was several scenes. Mostly between the doctor and Stamets. More than “30 seconds”.
No other character stated their pronouns, so how am I supposed to know everyone elses? The same way people figured it out since day 1. And here’s an easy way for us to know. Other characters can call him by it, and then we’ll know. Not everything has to be outright stated on camera for the audience to figure it out.
I’m only aware of this scene. What others are there? Stamets misgenders them at 0:09 and they’re done with the scene around 0:48, so you’re right, it was about 40 whole seconds.
I am frequently just… astonished to be honest, how often it’s repeated that it was a “major plot arc” or “multiple scenes” when it was, (as you pointed out) so brief. And it doesn’t ever seem to sway anyone’s opinion when this fact is pointed out!
“They made an entire episode about nonbinary people”
“The one in TNG?”
“No, Discovery”
“There was a single 40 second scene”
“Are you trolling? It was shoved down our throats”
Its funny because while we gloss over it today, this is how shocking uhara just being on the bridge was to people, or the shatner kiss. Like people were still being murdered and lynched for interracial relationships and even in northern cities we had red lining and racial violence. The big trans arc is a minor scene. With a person who also literally and unsubtly has memories of being MULTIPLE sexes and genders.
Its so shocking for some people it stands out. Even if they arent overt bigots being exposed to it rubs them a certain way.
I kind of get where some people are coming from if they’re (in good faith) saying that by that time Adira should just be matter-of-factly correctly Stamets rather than acting uncomfortable, but here’s the thing: the show might take place in the future, but it was made in 2020. Star Trek has always addressed the social issues of its time in a way that plays to the audience.
And hell, plenty of people are uncomfortable correcting others in general, regardless of the reason.
You know you’re never going to get any hard evidence other than surface-level stuff that they can get from their bigot blogs, because bigots hate actually engaging with media.
For the sake of argument (and I don’t care enough to go digging), let’s say it was no more than 40 seconds, but you didn’t respond to the rest of my comment so I’ll assume you’re in agreement.
Maybe they didn’t respond to the second half of the comment because, even though they had just corrected your pronoun misuse, you did it right away again.
You assume incorrectly. So in conclusion, a 40 second scene is the show “focusing too much on they/them ‘nonsense,’” since it’s the only part that addresses it.
Current trek seems to ignore the origional ‘meta’ of Star Trek, until the ratings are so bad that they overly backpedal and turn it into poor fan service. And because of that, it tells poorly written stories.
Lower Decks is brilliant. But Discovery and Picard was enough to make me hate new trek. What else is there? Prodigy is just a trashy show for kids. Well for stupid little kids it’s good enough. You don’t need quality writing for kids /s
PS: Yes I’m angry at the enshittification of star trek.
Prodigy is great for what it’s trying to be. If you don’t like kids shows that’s fine, but Prodigy is still teaching a new generation about Starfleet ideals and I think that’s awesome. Strange New Worlds is also pretty decent.
Well lol, very loosely yeah kinda. Very similar processes. Instead of being in the control of creatives who love the franchise, the franchise is owned by a corporation through a monopoly (IP ownership) who just try to diversify the portfolio and suits just hire anybody that sounds like they make money. And nobody else is allowed to make star trek. The Orville was better Star Trek than new trek but it competes against the name recognition of the brand.
I agree. StarTrek was always woke in the truest sense of the word.
In my opinion the new shows are just not good - Neither as StarTrek nor as general entertainment.
Except for maybe Strange New Worlds which certainly has shown some potential.
In all honesty, most people that hate current trek don’t hate it because it’s too woke, they hate it because it’s just generic trash. Classic trek didn’t care much about big space battles, loads of pew pew and great action shots. Classic trek cared about great stories. The ships were places where people actually worked and lived together.
Current trek (anything after enterprise) has horrible story lines, horrible dialogue, is mostly about dump action pew pew and CGI, ignores 50 years of history, is all about fuck this, fuck that and fucking fuck you and honestly: it isn’t woke: it’s only virtue signalling.
Classic trek was woke by making great stories about real issues in society. New trek is just a sad shadow of what it used to be.
I was never bothered by new trek being too woke because it isn’t.
To quote a really shitty show: sheer fucking hubris.
To claim that all iterations of modern Trek are a homogenous unit cut from one singular cloth tells me that either you haven’t actually even attempted to watch even half of it, or you’re completely blinded by personal biases. Either way, your opinion would be easy to discard even if it wasn’t a rant only tangentially related to the original post.
Strange New Worlds is more like classic trek, it’s not bad like Discovery.
IDK I think Discovery is weak for like 2 season before it figures itself out and is currently pretty good.
If it wasn’t trek I would have checked out in season 1, but if you’re willing to push through I think it’s worth it.
I’m with you, I did not really like 1-2 much (despite liking the characters, sets, costumes music, etc.) and 3 was an improvement, but season 4 I actually thought was phenomenal and what I want to see more of in Trek, specifically the slower pacing and big weird alien-aliens, and a conflict not solved with pew pews.
I feel similarly with Enterprise, Season 4 of ENT was so good, so I’m excited to see if DSC S5 can keep it up.
Discovery was a rollercoaster for me. It kept having moments that made me think it was getting its stuff together and then instead of sticking the landing it would fall flat on it’s face.
what does this have to do with the meme or are you just kinda doin your own thing over here
Personally, I think the sandwich is the ideal food delivery system.
So you’re saying I should be chewed to death with Dijon mustard? I don’t get why every time I barge into a thread and drop a completely unrelated turd of a reddit brained opinion someone like you always shows up to bully me.
look I’m not here to kink shame you
Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks have been pretty good at scratching the classic itch I think. But yeah I do agree that picard and discovery suffer from a problem that a lot of Marvel and DC comics these days suffer from. They dont slow down and spend every arc going from a threat THAT WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING to another threat that WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING. So many universe ending events.
Yeah, there’s a difference between a well written stories that take on social issues and really breaks down the ethics of them in an interesting and entertaining way and a poorly written story that’s trying to do something vaguely similar and completely fails to accomplish anything other than just mentioning that social issues exist.
It’s a weird feeling where I agree with what they’re trying to do but it’s so painful to watch them constantly fail.
A bad thing about the anti-woke thing is it’s hard to criticize things that have good intentions but have bad execution without being lumped in with the assholes. And I feel like poor writing won’t improve when there’s that excuse of “well they’re just hateful anti-woke assholes” to fall back on.
Okay so what’s your take on the core dilemma presented by the villain in Prodigy? Given an apparent choice between isolation and extinction, what do you think the right resolution is? Personally I think the conflict mirrors the real world isolation of Sentinel Island. And with the Sentinelese in mind, it starts feeling culturally insensitive to say isolation has no cultural excuse.
Or do you think the question posed by Prodigy is overly simple?
Well said. I don’t think new Trek has been too “woke” (whatever that means because no one can define it). The only one that was over the top was that kid who was non-Trill that had a symbiont. For being in the 31st century (or whatever) they focused too much on his they/them nonsense. You’re not suppose to mention it. When you make a thing of it, it doesn’t come across as normal. That’s like TOS making a big deal of a black woman working on the bridge. Sure, in reality it was a big deal at the time, but being set in the 23rd century it should be normal by then.
New Trek sucks for all the reasons you said. God awful writing, poor dialog, and plenty of bad actors. No character development. I can only remember a few characters names from Discovery. The rest I just physically describe: chick with metal on half of face, robot chick, darked haired guy and blonde chick who stood in the back of the bridge sometimes, and chick with African name.
I only continued to watch it for Stamets (after he chilled out), Saru, and Georgiou.
*their, not his
And it was a scene of, what, 30 seconds where they stated what their pronouns were, then it was never mentioned again? How is that focusing too much on it?
Unless everyone’s a mind reader, nobody’s going to know what a person’s pronouns are unless they tell them. They did, and that was that.
It was several scenes. Mostly between the doctor and Stamets. More than “30 seconds”.
No other character stated their pronouns, so how am I supposed to know everyone elses? The same way people figured it out since day 1. And here’s an easy way for us to know. Other characters can call him by it, and then we’ll know. Not everything has to be outright stated on camera for the audience to figure it out.
I’m only aware of this scene. What others are there? Stamets misgenders them at 0:09 and they’re done with the scene around 0:48, so you’re right, it was about 40 whole seconds.
I am frequently just… astonished to be honest, how often it’s repeated that it was a “major plot arc” or “multiple scenes” when it was, (as you pointed out) so brief. And it doesn’t ever seem to sway anyone’s opinion when this fact is pointed out!
“They made an entire episode about nonbinary people”
“The one in TNG?”
“No, Discovery”
“There was a single 40 second scene”
“Are you trolling? It was shoved down our throats”
Its funny because while we gloss over it today, this is how shocking uhara just being on the bridge was to people, or the shatner kiss. Like people were still being murdered and lynched for interracial relationships and even in northern cities we had red lining and racial violence. The big trans arc is a minor scene. With a person who also literally and unsubtly has memories of being MULTIPLE sexes and genders.
Its so shocking for some people it stands out. Even if they arent overt bigots being exposed to it rubs them a certain way.
Yes exactly! I am reminded of this TikTok if you haven’t seen it yet.
I kind of get where some people are coming from if they’re (in good faith) saying that by that time Adira should just be matter-of-factly correctly Stamets rather than acting uncomfortable, but here’s the thing: the show might take place in the future, but it was made in 2020. Star Trek has always addressed the social issues of its time in a way that plays to the audience.
And hell, plenty of people are uncomfortable correcting others in general, regardless of the reason.
You know you’re never going to get any hard evidence other than surface-level stuff that they can get from their bigot blogs, because bigots hate actually engaging with media.
YouTube is a big part of it too. I sometimes wonder how many people skip the episode and go straight for the rage bait.
I do know. But I think it’s worth calling out the absurdity regardless.
For the sake of argument (and I don’t care enough to go digging), let’s say it was no more than 40 seconds, but you didn’t respond to the rest of my comment so I’ll assume you’re in agreement.
Maybe they didn’t respond to the second half of the comment because, even though they had just corrected your pronoun misuse, you did it right away again.
You assume incorrectly. So in conclusion, a 40 second scene is the show “focusing too much on they/them ‘nonsense,’” since it’s the only part that addresses it.
/agree. Well said.
Current trek seems to ignore the origional ‘meta’ of Star Trek, until the ratings are so bad that they overly backpedal and turn it into poor fan service. And because of that, it tells poorly written stories.
Yeah I quickly started hating Discovery and Picard. “Not my Star Trek” lol, they had to make it like grimdark and postmodernist.
What is REALLY good is Lower Decks though. Absolutely brilliant even though it’s a cartoon comedy it feels like TNG.
I think you only watched Discovery and Picard.
Lower Decks is brilliant. But Discovery and Picard was enough to make me hate new trek. What else is there? Prodigy is just a trashy show for kids. Well for stupid little kids it’s good enough. You don’t need quality writing for kids /s
PS: Yes I’m angry at the enshittification of star trek.
Prodigy is great for what it’s trying to be. If you don’t like kids shows that’s fine, but Prodigy is still teaching a new generation about Starfleet ideals and I think that’s awesome. Strange New Worlds is also pretty decent.
Star Trek started using their monopoly power as a platform to squeeze their business customers for the benefit of shareholders?
Well lol, very loosely yeah kinda. Very similar processes. Instead of being in the control of creatives who love the franchise, the franchise is owned by a corporation through a monopoly (IP ownership) who just try to diversify the portfolio and suits just hire anybody that sounds like they make money. And nobody else is allowed to make star trek. The Orville was better Star Trek than new trek but it competes against the name recognition of the brand.
I agree. StarTrek was always woke in the truest sense of the word. In my opinion the new shows are just not good - Neither as StarTrek nor as general entertainment. Except for maybe Strange New Worlds which certainly has shown some potential.
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