Lol, you need time to know long term effects, there still hasn’t been enough of that yet.
And yes, a mandate has as much weight as a law, it just depends who issued it. The only really difference in mandate vs law is how it’s initiated, but here, they hold the same weight.
You ignore that not a single person was mandated to get a vaccine in a scenario where they had no choice.
Also you idiot, we know the long term effects of death but that didn’t stop you from pretending a hypothetical issue born of a bullshit theory should take precedence.
The choice was lose your income, travel no where, and gather with zero loved ones - or take this vaccine we just came out with, but havent finished testing lol.
It’s kind of funny that I’ve been pretty civil despite all the name calling, and you’re the one blocking me.
Assuming you’re in the US, no one was banning you from traveling or gathering with loved ones. There was nothing close to an actual lockdown that was implemented in the US. Losing income is a different story. Coming in to work and endangering other people’s health without their consent is not acceptable. Not to mention that most antivaxxers are antimaskers as well, which made it worse. If you purposely do not take the necessary precautions to keep other people around you safe, then you shouldn’t be working there. That applies to anything, not just Covid.
I’m not in the US - but also thank you for responding without malice.
Losing income is a big deal, especially with dependants, but that aside - you’re right about your point of possibly endangering others.
However If the vaccine fully protected you (as it was advertised at first) this wouldn’t be the case - anyone who was vaxxed would’ve been immune. Also having natural immunity is just as good, if not better - but instead of doing any sort of antibody testing, we stuck with “be vaccinated or lose your job”. Wouldn’t anti body testing instead of mandates be the pinnacle of making sure those around you are safe? Especially at a time when we didn’t know the risks or effectiveness of the vaccine.
No company or government agency claimed the vaccine fully protected anyone, the efficacy results were published long before the vaccines were made available to the public. Natural immunity isn’t better at all, it’s as good in some cases, but less consistently so across the board and hybrid immunity was better than either. No, antibody testing would be unnecessary overkill vs just vaccinating everyone for this reason.
So death is the only metric? Long COVID isn’t a metric? Just missing two weeks of work isn’t a metric? Because we don’t get flu vaccines because we’re worried about dying from the flu, we get them because we want to avoid getting the flu and avoid the worst symptoms if we do. And that’s even true of other vaccines. The polio vaccine wasn’t about stopping death, it was about stopping the crippling effects of polio. Sort of similar to the crippling effects of COVID.
The worst symptoms are death. I see your point about extending the metrics, and maybe I should consider more than just dying, but I think it’s a strong factor in why this whole thing seems over blown in the way mandates and restrictions came.
For polio, it was about stopping death, paralysis is a death sentence in most places in the world.
There obviously isn’t one, that’s part of weighing the risks - which we didn’t have enough time or data to do for covid and it’s vaccines. Part of the whole informed consent thing.
Thankfully we can all now choose, and see better data
You know you have to get COVID to have natural immunity, right? So what should we do, have COVID parties like parents used to have chicken pox parties for their kids?
Get the vaccine if you’re elderly or have underlying risks, otherwise doing 3 shots a year to stay up to date doesn’t look very beneficial anymore.
We didn’t know how ineffective the vaccine was in the beginning, but our leaders still said things like “This will protect you. Fully. Everyone needs to have it”. I’ll provide links if you didn’t see any of that going on.
It was a lot more political than it was scientific, which is a huge red flag.
Lol, you need time to know long term effects, there still hasn’t been enough of that yet.
And yes, a mandate has as much weight as a law, it just depends who issued it. The only really difference in mandate vs law is how it’s initiated, but here, they hold the same weight.
I won’t be deleting lemmy :)
You ignore that not a single person was mandated to get a vaccine in a scenario where they had no choice.
Also you idiot, we know the long term effects of death but that didn’t stop you from pretending a hypothetical issue born of a bullshit theory should take precedence.
Thanks for the block request btw
The choice was lose your income, travel no where, and gather with zero loved ones - or take this vaccine we just came out with, but havent finished testing lol.
It’s kind of funny that I’ve been pretty civil despite all the name calling, and you’re the one blocking me.
Assuming you’re in the US, no one was banning you from traveling or gathering with loved ones. There was nothing close to an actual lockdown that was implemented in the US. Losing income is a different story. Coming in to work and endangering other people’s health without their consent is not acceptable. Not to mention that most antivaxxers are antimaskers as well, which made it worse. If you purposely do not take the necessary precautions to keep other people around you safe, then you shouldn’t be working there. That applies to anything, not just Covid.
I’m not in the US - but also thank you for responding without malice.
Losing income is a big deal, especially with dependants, but that aside - you’re right about your point of possibly endangering others.
However If the vaccine fully protected you (as it was advertised at first) this wouldn’t be the case - anyone who was vaxxed would’ve been immune. Also having natural immunity is just as good, if not better - but instead of doing any sort of antibody testing, we stuck with “be vaccinated or lose your job”. Wouldn’t anti body testing instead of mandates be the pinnacle of making sure those around you are safe? Especially at a time when we didn’t know the risks or effectiveness of the vaccine.
No company or government agency claimed the vaccine fully protected anyone, the efficacy results were published long before the vaccines were made available to the public. Natural immunity isn’t better at all, it’s as good in some cases, but less consistently so across the board and hybrid immunity was better than either. No, antibody testing would be unnecessary overkill vs just vaccinating everyone for this reason.
You’re either ignorant or lying. Educate yourself
How long after a pandemic starts should a vaccine be released? Give me a number please.
For a pandemic with a really high survival rate? Like a 99% survival rate?
5-10 years makes sense to me
If the survival rate was different, my answers here would be different
So death is the only metric? Long COVID isn’t a metric? Just missing two weeks of work isn’t a metric? Because we don’t get flu vaccines because we’re worried about dying from the flu, we get them because we want to avoid getting the flu and avoid the worst symptoms if we do. And that’s even true of other vaccines. The polio vaccine wasn’t about stopping death, it was about stopping the crippling effects of polio. Sort of similar to the crippling effects of COVID.
Long covid doesn’t exist
And your medical degree is from what institution?
The worst symptoms are death. I see your point about extending the metrics, and maybe I should consider more than just dying, but I think it’s a strong factor in why this whole thing seems over blown in the way mandates and restrictions came.
For polio, it was about stopping death, paralysis is a death sentence in most places in the world.
Especially if we’re going to use a tech in a vaccine that we’ve never used on large amounts of people before
Ok, so you have no problem with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine that was not based on mRNA, right?
Lol you mean the one they took off of the shelves because of blood clots? From a lack of testing?
I said “especially with new tech”. Still need to test the waters with the old one clearly.
You mean the handful of blood clots vs. the millions successfully vaccinated?
Please name a vaccine with zero side effects.
There obviously isn’t one, that’s part of weighing the risks - which we didn’t have enough time or data to do for covid and it’s vaccines. Part of the whole informed consent thing.
Thankfully we can all now choose, and see better data
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/natural-immunity-protective-covid-vaccine-severe-illness-rcna71027
You know you have to get COVID to have natural immunity, right? So what should we do, have COVID parties like parents used to have chicken pox parties for their kids?
You’re going to get covid. Vaccine or not.
Get the vaccine if you’re elderly or have underlying risks, otherwise doing 3 shots a year to stay up to date doesn’t look very beneficial anymore.
We didn’t know how ineffective the vaccine was in the beginning, but our leaders still said things like “This will protect you. Fully. Everyone needs to have it”. I’ll provide links if you didn’t see any of that going on.
It was a lot more political than it was scientific, which is a huge red flag.
The only right thing to do was to do nothing. All the attacks on freedom we suffered through were evil