with the recent news about the things that were said about Google slowing down Firefox on purpose, are they doing this because they severily dislike Firefox/open source? :c If so, that wouldn’t make a lot of sense!!! Because Google loves open source too. I read they were doing this to stop adblockers, and well if you use Firefox without those, it can work maybe! I use Chromium and Google Chrome on Ubuntu u
Google loves open source when it suits their agenda.
For example, they created an entire OS almost from scratch. It cost them billions and the vast majority of it was open source, so people would be enticed to get onboard the Android ecosystem.
Now that Google has a virtual monopoly with Android, look at the state of AOSP: it’s a shell of its former self. Most of what’s left in it is becoming old and stale, because Google is quietly replacing the open-source bits that are now an inconvenience to them with their proprietary, more up-to-date counterparts.
Not to mention it’s practically impossible to get rid of the Google code in it… Android is so deeply tied with Google, almost no one dares to tackle that code and degoogle it.
@0x4E4F @ExtremeDullard
Could you elaborate what Google Code is for example in GrapheneOS?
That’s not the same as an ungoogled fork of Android, is it.
I’m a bit confused about the emphasis you put in the quote… GrapheneOS is built on AOSP (the open-source part of Android), it’s definitely not some OS built from ground up (look no further than the various Linux phone projects to see how terrible those are as Android replacements atm).
Technically it isn’t Android, because Google owns the trademark and has some requirements for stuff that wants to call itself Android - it needs to pass a compatibility test and more importantly, include Google Play Services. But it is as much Android as any other custom ROM.
@Markaos @0x4E4F
Exactly, thanks.
That was never mentioned, it just said it had Google App compatiblity… and I didn’t look any further to be honest.
In my original reply, that’s why I said “almost no one”. Because, yes, some people might try and untangle that spaghetti code, riddled with tons of Google native things (there’s also LineageOS), but in reality, even if someone does it, no one is gonna use it. Sure, your oddball dev or Linux user, here and there, but mass adoption, no way. Main problem, as with every Android fork - drivers.
I really see no point actually forking Android if you can’t get a decent set of drivers that work, regardless if they’re closed or open source (though open source would be nice).
But AOSP already is “Android without proprietary Google code”, simply because “Android” means AOSP + Google Play Services + compatibility certification. It’s getting increasingly more and more barebones as Google moves functionality into Google Play Services, but it is what the vast majority of third party ROMs are based on.
How they manage to then improve compatibility differs. Truly ungoogled ROMs just don’t - either the app works with AOSP, or it’s not welcome on the system because it would require Google services. Some use MicroG, a small open-source reimplementation that is good enough to replace the real Google Play Services for most apps (but it does communicate with Google servers similarly to the real one, so all it does from degoogling perspective is limit the amount of extra data your phone sends to Google). Then there are also ROMs that support installing the official Google Play Services and related apps. LineageOS can do that (or it can use MicroG, or just not have GPS at all), for example.
And then there is GrapheneOS which has managed to turn the Play Services into a mostly regular app that doesn’t have overreaching access to the whole system and lets you configure how much data you’re willing to leak to it.
Drivers also don’t seem to be that big of a deal nowadays, Google’s effort to simplify Android updates for OEMs has done a lot to help third party ROMs as a side effect. The biggest problem now is the various security attestation mechanisms that are available through Google Play and which Google spends a lot of time and money to convince developers to use. These are very hard / currently impossible to implement in a way that doesn’t trip security checks on the affected apps - want mobile banking? Well, that’s too bad because it will simply refuse to work if Google Play says your system has been tampered with. Workarounds exist, but they’re not reliable over time.
OK, I admit, I was looking into this a few years ago, so I don’t have the lastest info on this. Back then, drivers were the biggest problem. I had an Asus ZenFone 3 Max back then and I really wanted to try and run LineageOS on it. Turns out, everything works 🥳, except for RIL 😒. I could live without bluetooth or IR, that’s fine, but… this is a phone, it’s primary purpose is to make phone calls, not be a tablet. Hell, I could buy a $50 one if I really wanted a tablet.
My point is, there will always be obsticles and ways to overcome them. The only question is, is it worth my time and effort. A thing like ReVanced that takes 2 minutes to install, yeah, sure. But me doing backflips once every 2 or 3 months to overcome paying for things, nah, that’s just not worth it.
I stand behind this, there is no point in forking Android, you gain nothing. Simple apps that don’t need anything to run, yeah, those will run just fine, but as you mentioned, anything that involves data transfer to google services will be a hard to swallow pill. It’s just not worth it IMO. Better invest your time in a new platform. Sure it’s gonna be hard for it to take off, but hey, at least you’re not investing your time in a lost battle.
@0x4E4F
The privacy and security enhancement of GrapheneOS is partly achieved by having next to no Google included in the OS.
That may be true, but I’m sure the userbase is next to none.
@0x4E4F
That’s neither true nor relevant for the question.
What good is an OS if no one uses it 🤨. TempleOS is cool, but I bet you won’t find 100 people on earth that use it as a daily driver.
yeah, i remember that dude. i kinda felt sorry for him, kinda went off his rocker. was following his story when he died.