That wouldn’t have happened if the 1-year-old had a gun 🤔
Or if the family lived almost anywhere else in the world.
You saying this in this scenario is the reason why we’re so divided. You try to pervert fair arguments and make them seem absurd.
These are not the issues the democrats are targeting in wanting to solve when they want to ban semi-autos, and you know it.
If the 3 yo instead stabbed the 1 year old, would that make a difference? Should we start banning household knives?
I don’t hear a lot about 3-year-olds stabbing 1-year-olds. I do hear a lot about toddlers getting guns and shooting other kids…
If the 3 yo instead stabbed the 1 year old, would that make a difference? Should we start banning household knives?
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Again, it’s gun nuts like you that make people like me say fuck the second.
HAHAHA I own my dads old little .22. I’m not a gun nut, just empathetic enough with people that have different lifestyles to know that tens of millions of americans provide food and protection for themselves with guns, and that someone using a tool incorrectly across the nation shouldn’t make me hate and ban them.
Knives are in nearly every household yet accidental deaths from laceration are not very common. Maybe they’re not nearly as prevalent in media so kids don’t think to “play” with knives. Maybe they’re just not as deadly as guns (they’re absolutely not).
The biggest difference between knives (plus the dozens of other dangerous household items that any normal person owns) and guns is the purpose. Guns are intended to harm living things. I cut things almost daily, but in 40 years I’ve never had a situation where I thought a gun would’ve improved the outcome.
What 3-year-olds are stabbing people? You are obsessed with this idea.
The implication with what they said is that if there was a repeated incident of toddlers accidentally using knives to kill siblings then there probably would be some type of action. But a three year old can’t harm much with a knife,not like with a firearm
You cant ban “basic” tools
Guns are tools too, but way to specialized. Almost nobody really needs them.
But knives? I use knives daily for food prep/cooking
And opening boxes
And cutting wood
(Of course different knives with different types of blade, etc)
A gun has 1 purpose: kill someone
but way to specialized. Almost nobody really needs them.
Every tool is specialized. How many different screws do they make that need different screw drivers?
And the fact that you can’t empathize with any other lifestyle than your, likely big city, lifestyle is absurd. Do you not know people rely on hunting for food? For protection?
But knives? I use knives daily for food prep/cooking
What if a rural individual hunts every day?
And opening boxes
Guards his animals every day. You ever try to get a hungry coyote off your chickens?
kill someone
See right there, that’s my point. You don’t see it as a tool. You see it as a violent weapon that is only made to kill ‘someone,’ you’re so limited in your world view that you can’t even comprehend someone hunting for a deer to provide for their family. All you know is that you can buy some deer meet at stores.
And kill animals for food.
And kill pest animals.
But yeah, that’s about it.
Yup, actually putting the gun in a locked safe or maybe a trigger lock or a safety switch or taking out the bullets, nothing else would work… responsible gun owners are not a problem. Stop creating an issue where there isn’t one. Gun control isn’t just banning guns.
want to ban semi-autos, and you know it.
I say F the 2nd. And it was gun rights advocates who radicalized me, not Democrats.
Okay, well until we as a country determine that the constitution needs amending and we want to repeal the 2nd amendment, it’s the constitution that is the most important part of the law that every state must abide by.
I like that you didn’t respond to the rest of my comment that showed how stupid yours was. What do you think of the criticism I had for your comment, do you just want to ignore my points of
- You’re strawmanning the argument
- This isn’t the scenario’s the democrats are targeting when they want to ban AR’s.
- If a different weapon was used, do you think it’s a good argument to ban said weapon?
It is likely that the 3 y/o would not have killed the 1 y/o if a gun was not available.
Unless murder was on the mind.
You can’t see a scenario where instead of a gun the kid had, he’s playing with a knife and cuts the 1 year old? Have you been around many kids that age?
But, please entertain me, if it was a knife, should we be trying to ban knives?
I don’t ever remember my child playing with a knife, let along attacking another child with a knife. What kind of children are you around?
I’ve never seen a child shoot another kid, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened, clearly. You’re doing a lot to avoid the question:
if it was a knife, should we be trying to ban knives?
Is a pump-action shotgun not an armament? A bolt-action rifle? A revolver? I’m fine with an 18yo buying one of these. You want something more powerful then show you’re responsible enough to own it.
Whats the “fair argument”? You need more guns to prevent more shootings? Do you realise how dumb this is?
That in a case of self defense, I’d rather have a gun.
Just that with your stupid laws the other guy has a gun too. With good laws no one has a gun
And that’s the problem with you - you have no empathy for others.
Guns are useful. Guns provide food for millions of american families. They provide protection for ones home. They provide protection for ones animals.
You want me to fight a coyote attacking my chickens with a knife?
You may live in a lifestyle that you don’t need to hunt for food, you don’t have a chicken or your family to protect, likely a big city. What about everyone else that doesn’t share your lifestyle?
What kind of third world shithole do you live in?
Someone that hunts for food is 3rd world?
I think you’ve lost what it means to be human. I understand, you buy your eggs from the market, does it make someone inherently worse that they get their eggs from their chickens?
lock the parents up and get that kid some lifelong counseling.
as a gun owner… I find not locking up your weapons abhorrent.
as a non American I find owning guns abhorrent but to each their own
As a hunter I own quite a few, but guess what? They are all fucking locked up in a safe and I don’t have any children, just my wife and I. How anyone could have children and think it’s ok to leave a firearm around is asinine.
I took away my son’s bb and pellet guns because I caught him waving his rifle around like a toy.
“But it wasn’t loaded!”
“Then you obviously forgot or ignored the very first thing I taught you.”
There are several reasons go own a gun in the US. Should we have as many as we do? Absolutely not. But we have a lot of wild and dangerous animals and you don’t have to get far from a city center to encounter them. We also have several invasive species we keep down via strategic hunting. Feral pigs being one of them. They’re very dangerous and near impossible to get rid of once they’re there.
The US could definitely do with at least having the Canadian system where guns are highly tracked by the government (and they should be), but until i don’t see coyotes and random bullshit like that wandering around my suburban area, I still guy why you’d want one. I say this as someone who had never owned a gun, nor wants to own one for various reasons.
Sounds like a job for someone trained in killing wild animals, not like something that justifies everyone having a firearm.
Do you think you that there are more feral pigs or people killed with guns in US?
Other nations have guns and yet no one ever talks about it. Canada and Australia both allow it. I have never stated that I don’t think it should be regulated, but the very real fact is that without the assistance of hunters the US would have a real ass problem feeding itself. Wild hogs are a real threat to our food supply to the point where some farmers stake out areas with automatic machine guns to mow them down. Feral hogs are such a problem and that many states don’t have any kind of limitation on killing them at all.
You’re coming at this from the POV of someone who has never had to consider being murdered by wild life in your backyard that absolutely our government is not going to completely get rid of nor can you kill them willy nilly either. You’re thinking about this like someone where 100 miles is a very long way and not the distance one travels to get to work.
Fuck, I legitimately know people who subsistence farm. They hunt actually for food. Because they live in the middle of fucking nowhere and getting food is too expensive. I’ve visited areas of my state with cloth stores, not clothing stores. That’s the kind of low income area we’re talking about.
There are reasons to own a gun. There are legitimate ways to regulate guns that the US is not doing. That’s why our neighbor with had a high amount of guns (although not the absurd amount t we have) doesn’t have the same kind fo gun death rates.
I live in Australia where feral animals are absolutely rampant, and one of the biggest problems facing our ecosystem. We have lots of guns but almost no gun violence especially compared to the US. I could have used better wording but i agree with owning a gun if it’s absolutely necessary, and defending yourself against robbers isn’t one. But I agree the issue is systemic and that a lot of things in the US need to change both legally and culturally in order for guns to be banned which will probably never happen. But the fact is that the culture surrounding guns and the sheer amount of them you have in your country and more specifically the cities, not to mention the violence, is repulsive to almost every other country in the world. All our guns are more or less restrained to the outback and farms or rural areas where hunters actually live, and most people don’t own more than a few, and especially don’t make a hobby out of it. Because we see them as a tool a lot more than Americans do, on average. I can’t speak for everyone obviously but that’s the way I see it and statistics back it up.
Your name is different than the person I replied to and I don’t know why you’re here. I’ve never made the point that I think the US doesn’t have a gun problem. We have a problem with regulations that is difficult to resolve because the national government can’t set standards, state governments have different standards, but the doesn’t fucking matter when states legally must acknowledge each other’s licenses, so many people drive to the shittty states and come back.bor they just live in shitty states. Or many issues around the nature of the federal system.
I don’t even know why you’re here talking to me being all high and mighty when you’re totally okay with guns in your own nation for non-critcal reasons as well. You only have a hardline stance about guns existing in the US apparently. You’re shitting on us not for not having good enough regulation of guns which is totally valid, but also for apparently not being better than your own country, which again will allow you to have guns even if it’s not absolutely critical. You don’t have to make the case that you absolutely need a gun in Australia. You can just be like “I just shooting at ranges lol” and they will absolutely give you a license if you under go all the training.
This is the BS I hate. Yes the US has a problem, mostly owing to the nature of thr US being 50 countries in a trench coat in many cases. But people acting like guns are absolutely abhorrent and their country wouldn’t allow them for frivolous reasons like collecting 200 of them (this is totally legal in Australia too BTW) makes me so mad. Be at mad are your own fucking country before getting indignant about a country you don’t even live for not accomplishing things your own nation hasn’t.
I’m allowed to reply to whatever comment I want, and you started by replying to one of my comments in the first place. And don’t act like it’s exactly the same, because the difference is we don’t have more mass shootings per week than there are days, and guns are significantly more difficult to obtain here than over there. And don’t act like it’s a state issue when it’s a collective mindset of the country and that’s the reason they haven’t been properly regulated at a federal level yet. The US is completely backward in this regard and the amount of feral pigs you have there is no excuse for the amount of guns.
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As an Italian surrounded by guns who has them and hates them but might need to ruin my life by defending myself against a crazed neighbor… They’re abhorrent. There’s no good that comes from a gun.
Agreed, as terrible a thing as it is to happen to a parent it needs to be punished when this occurs. Someone was obviously negligent with a gun around a child. If it was put away properly this wouldn’t have happened.
But how can i enjoy my right to bear arms if my weapons are locked up
Either lock them up or teach gun safety. Its never too early to learn that guns are bad. When you are a child you just know certain things you don’t do or you will probably die. Like sticking a fork in an outlet. Should be the same with guns at that age.
3 year olds can’t even reliably communicate that they have to go to the bathroom. They routinely injure themselves and others sometimes through idle curiosity, sometimes via being bad at using their body or understanding consequences. 3 year olds often just do the opposite of what you say for no other reason than developmentally that’s the period they defy you.
Have you met a 3 year old? Interacting with them for a long period of time and then tried to get to stop doing something novelly dangerous without them doing that thing at least once? Because it’s basically impossible to teach toddlers anything but in retrospect. Adults only follow instructions because they have enough experience to trust the system. A 3 year old has no such trust.
Unless there’s extenuating circumstances, you’ve failed if your 3 year old can’t reliably communicate the need to go to the bathroom. I’m not saying they get things perfect, but the vast majority of 3 year olds can tell you when they need to go to the bathroom.
Even at age 2 it’s quite common.
I like how you completely failed to address the actually developmental milestones of 3 year olds. I know you don’t know shit about 3 year olds because you’re confidently incorrect about how very often a 3 year old will fail to give you warning about needing to go to the bathroom. I guess you think changes of clothing that are required for school until kindergarten are just in case they get dirty.
Either way, the analogy is weak because because a 3yo killing someone with a toilet has a reliably low probability. Even on accident.
But children are prone to accidents all the time. And all it takes is one accident or lapse of judgement for a child to gun down their sibling/friend- even if they’re educated on firearm safety. The fact that this regularly appears on the news should be a wakeup call. It never is.
You must not have kids if you don’t think a 3 year old can comprehend basic instructions. They are much smarter than you are leading on. The average child is actually potty tried by 3 already so your first statement is wrong. Its never to early to teach your toddler that things are bad. Like looking both way before crossing the street. Its not rocket science.
Another person who hasn’t ever had a real life 3 year old and doesn’t know why “three-nager” is a thing or even what developmental milestones are for 3 year olds. 3 year olds aren’t even expected to follow multistage instructions. Like it’s not a thing any doctor would be worried about if your kid couldn’t at 3. That’s how uncommon it is for a 3 year old to follow instructions.
I have two kids, 5 and 6. Both were potty trained and could understand and follow instructions at 3 years old. Sure they might be curious but they aren’t retarded. Sounds like you are the one without children or any real life experience.
Based on your comment history you are just here to argue, thats pretty clear.
Either lock them up or teach gun safety.
Responsible firearm owners are doing both of those.
If the owners didn’t know that keeping unlocked, loaded, and (I’m willing to bet) chambered firearms in a household with kids was dangerous then the only way they’ll learn is in jail.
To the rest of the world, this would be an exceedingly rare headline.
For Americans, it is just any other Tuesday.
American solution: put the 3yo in prison for forced labour and arm all 1 year olds so they can defend themselves.
Gun manufacturers: heavy breathing
Use the 3 year olds in prison to make the guns for the 1 year olds to arm themselves! Fuckin bang two for one.
Not really
Then send thoughts and prayers when it happens over and over again. We’ve done nothing to fix the problem and there’s nothing we can do about it!
the 2 common culprits in all these horrible stories are: 1) human stupidity 2) gun proliferation. solving the first would require eugenism. solving the second is a big american no-no. So don’t call it horrible, just live with it. It’s just a normal by-product of american culture.
IMHO solving 1 needed educations, but that’s also a big American no-no, so we’re back to square one.
IMHO solving 1 needed educations, but that’s also a big American no-no
No it’s not. For all of their ills, stupidity, nonsense, fraud, and extremely questionable decisions the NRA does run education campaigns with their “Eddie Eagle” program. A big problem is that it has been kicked out of schools, especially schools in Blue States, so they’re unable to reach one of the audiences that need it the most.
It’s like Red States kicking Sex Education out of schools and being shocked at teen pregnancies. Education works far better than restriction. Always.
it has been kicked out of schools
So, as @Ichi_matsu@ttrpg.network said, it’s a big no-no for Americans.
I hadn’t thought of it quite that way but I suppose so. American’s do seem to have a nasty habit of not wanting to teach our children about things we don’t like.
Yeah, I’m not sure eugenics is ever the answer
Wtf?
Why would the gun be loaded? At the very least the gun and the ammo should be separated.
You are 100% correct but that loops is back to #1.
The better question is why was a handgun needed? People shouldn’t buy deadly weapons for fun.
Anything is a deadly weapon in the right situation.
Ok, I’m waiting for you to kill me with a maple leaf.
Do you not think that someone can die from choking on a maple leaf?
Possibly in the rarest of circumstances. Doesn’t sound like a deadly weapon, though. And I’ve never heard of such case.
On the other hand, quick search shows these headlines:
- 1-year-old boy accidentally shot by 4-year-old brother in Texas
- 7-year-old accidentally shoots and kills 5-year-old in Kentucky
- Jacksonville police: Boy, 8, accidentally shoots, kills sister, 5, injures neighbor, 4
- ‘Another tragic story’: 3-year old girl accidentally shoots and kills 4-year-old sister in Houston
- Family grieves after daughter accidentally shot to death by 7-years-old brother
- 10-year-old charged with accidentally shooting his 12-year-old brother
- 14-year-old boy accidentally shoots brother, 8, outside Oklahoma Walmart
- Police: 14-Year-Old ‘Accidentally Shoots’ 12-Year-Old Brother In Choctaw
- 5-year-old accidentally shoots, kills little sister in Indiana
This is just the first page of results and all of that is from 2023.
So, were you saying something about choking on maple leaves?
I’ll keep asking the same question -
If these were knife accidents, would you support banning knives?
This sounds like parental neglect, and should be treated as such. The tool doesn’t matter, it’s the fact the parents neglected the safety of their kids.
Most people buy a handgun like that for self-defense. Likely because they don’t expect the cops to show up and protect them. And there isn’t anything wrong with owning something dangerous if it’s property secured and used safely. These parents were negligent.
Not if your concerned about personal safety. I don’t live in the best neighborhood. So the time to slide in 12ga rounds might cost me my life.
https://youtu.be/AItWcBU-NEA?t=238
All my others are in safes and the ammo is not easily accessible.
Most gun safety in America is optional.
Separating ammo isn’t actually securing the firearm though. Loaded or unloaded it should still be property secured. And you can safely store a fire loaded if the firearm is actually in some kind of safe. The parents were simply negligent.
Solving the first would require the end of human existence. You can’t breed out stupidity, eugenics doesn’t solve anything.
It’s not immediately clear if any parents were in the home at the time of the shooting.
I guess it tracks that if they left a toddler and a baby in the house alone, they’d also be irresponsible enough to leave a weapon just sitting out unsecured and loaded. What a tragedy.
Sending yet more thoughts and prayers /s.
Sounds like the owner needs to be charged. Unfortunately they rarely are.
This is California. We are required by law to lock away our firearms and have safety locks on them. I hope the parents get fucked so hard, shit will be pushed out of their mouths. They are fuckin idiots.
Many states have laws that would allow parents to be charged under negligence. They are still rarely charged. Even when they are, they are generally just given probation.
The only way to stop a bad baby with a gun is a good baby with a gun.
Clearly we need to arm 1 year olds so they can defend themselves
Trigger locks are not hard to get and are inexpensive.
I’m iffy on more gun control, but if there is something I’d want to do, it’d be requiring businesses to provide a trigger lock with each sale.
The average American is too dumb to own guns and I say this from a household with several guns. Seriously would rather not have them if that means idiots and the mentally unstable don’t either.
as an American I barely trust myself around knives
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Spot on. Pretty much the only reason I carry. Never know when some d bag is going to start blasting the local grocery store.
Who is smart enough to own guns then? Solely the government?
Such a rare opinion to see today.
Reputable gun shops provide them free of charge w/ every sale.
/gun collector
…it’d be requiring businesses to provide a trigger lock with each sale.
Pretty much is in the State of California. This is yet another instance of someone not following the basic god damned rules of firearm safety.
You can only do so much to encourage gun safety, but when you get to this point I think it’s only fitting to charge the gun owner with a felony and forbid them from ever owning a firearm again.
With a 3 year old, even just emptying the gun would have been effective. Or putting it in heights
Every gun I’ve bought came with a cable lock. They are a waste though as would be a required trigger lock. I prefer different and more reliable storage methods.
And just because something came in the box doesn’t mean it is going to be used correctly. Especially if someone doesn’t like that way of securing a firearm. A better way is probably just some PSAs and tax breaks for security/storage devices to encourage proper storage. If there are going to be these things in every box give me a way to return them or something.
I’m pretty sure that’s already a law.
Shit when I bought my pistol it friggin came WITH a trigger lock.
“As of July 12, there have been at least 217 unintentional shootings by children, which have resulted in 76 deaths and 149 injuries so far in 2023, according to a count by the gun control nonprofit Everytown for Gun Safety”
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Fuck this is depressing.
This kid is gonna be fucked up the rest of his/her life.
