😱

is this a quote? I could have sworn I’ve heard this before.

If the Lemmy admins can’t make a living from it, that’s the Lemmy community’s fault.

in case the developers of Lemmy decide to pull the plug

They literally can’t. It’s open source and publicly licensed. If they abandon the project (or even if we don’t like their direction), it can be forked (copied) and maintained by someone else.

I love tesseract! Thanks so much for mentioning it. This makes .ml more like Alexandrite.

Based on some comments here I think I will likely leave .world when they stop or try and change to sublink. It looks like that is the imminent goal. Tesseract makes it much easier to leave. Thanks again!

All I want is a community to interact with, not a constantly fracturing platform with weird political infighting.

This is part of why some people (myself included) are skeptical about Sublinks - I’d rather see us all gather around Lemmy, which already exists and is open source, rather than duplicate effort across different implementations.

However realistically speaking, over time more implementations will probably appear, because people won’t agree on what to build or how to build it.

In some ways that is good as well - it gives choice for users about what software to use, just as users can choose their instance and apps and such. But I think it’s a little early to start something new while Lemmy is still so new.

From what I can tell, it’s more worrying that .world is trying to essentially build up a new site like Mbin, from the ground up, in Java, rather than just working to make Lemmy better. It appears to be a severely underestimated workload for no benefit whatsoever, other than “better” mod tools, which could be folded into Lemmy either way.

I think Sublinks would like to ultimately hijack Lemmy’s user base and take the project in a different direction. They’ll maintain a Lemmy-compatible API until they have a critical mass of instances/users using it and then do as they please. Based on what I’ve read, Sublinks people don’t like the Lemmy developers or at least the tech choices and way the project is managed.

I guess I can understand that, but I’m skeptical of their intentions too. And, as a Java engineer myself, I find it pretty annoying that they’re pushing a Java backend over the existing Rust one. Seems like a step backwards.

Ticking for what exactly?

Honestly though if they need to learn Rust to do that, it might not be a good idea. I’d rather have a very good implementation in Java than a very amateur one in Rust. Depending on the implementing dev, of course.

I’ll happily move to a new platform to avoid them.

Just to be clear, Sublinks is still a Fediverse application and presumably if lemmy.world switched, it would still federate with the instances it currently federates with, so you would not avoid anyone any more than you currently are.

If you want to avoid certain instances, go to an instance that has defederated from those instances (or make your own).

It does sound very complicated. You’d probably need both instances to agree to the transfer somehow and then you’d need to transfer all the data (old posts from before the two servers federated for instance).

It would probably need to be built into ActivityPub if it should really work between different Fediverse services too.

Because 10 months ago I chose to host c/veganhomecooks here. I do now use my own instance that I run out of Azure and plan to figure out a way to move my comm there but that is not easy to two click and move, I would lose all the subscribers and posts and it would not be cached on any other federated server. It is currently the largest and most active vegan focused community on the fediverse and do not want to leave it behind.

I would have asked the same question, just do it earlier than later or then add a note, on where to find your new community if you want to move your community too. That is sadly a software limitation and would be irritating if a whole community can just swap instances.

Deadass slaps, fam.

I read all your posts on this thread and honestly… I am shook. There is very clearly some resentment there, resentment that goes beyond the interests of the community and beyond the points of the OP.

There are always going to be issues with this type of software. You should raise them appropriately, on their repository, so they get fixed in the next release. That is how FLOSS works. Do not use that to divide the community. We are not big enough for that yet.

Instead of being shady and manipulative, how about you create an issue/post with the current lemmy bugs/troubles and give an honest chance to the devs?

And you are mad because of documentation? I mean, I understand, it must be infuriating, specially being the biggest community. I understand the stress. Had it happened to me, I would have been mad as well. But come on. Be better than that. Documentation is text. Just send a PR with the correct configs. That should be easy. Sure, you hurt, but use that to improve the community, not to divide it.

And check the upvote/downvote ratio of all your comments here. You have more downvotes than upvotes. That is the community speaking.

And I wonder @ruud@lemmy.world, is he speaking for Lemmy.world with his comments?

Yes the 0.19.4 upgrade happened.

And… what does this mean? Something bad will be introduced with 0.19.4?

In normal use cases I’d agree about performance. But on the scale of Lemmy it’s absolutely likely to make a difference long term.

And if you’re going to use a managed language, why not something that has less baggage and a brighter future, like C#? It’s as open and multiplatform as Java these days with less of the overzealous, Java-specific OOP culture.

If you really want performance, please write your code in binary, then you have no compiler, no runtime just plain binary code, it will be fast but unreadable

What a stupid, dismissive, and worthless take.

And no one of the sublinks team can do rust really, so it was just a matter of what languages can be learned faster and/or have already good knowledge about a programming language.

Nutomic, one of the main Lemmy devs, didn’t know Rust either when he started contributing. It’s really not so difficult to learn as it seems.

I’d love to help anyone learn btw. I unfortunately don’t have the time to contribute to Lemmy myself but I love teaching so if anyone would like to learn some Rust, hit me up.

way to tell devs to fuck off and stop complaining. ngl I’m interested in this space, know java well, and still was immediately turned off by Java. SPRING BOOT no less. does your internal team work with anybody that has experience in building TEAMS and not just software? if you did, you guys should know what devs want and it’s NOT writing java sb for free. this is a bad take, especially coming from an engineering leader.

Java isn’t inherently better at running as a distributed system than any other language is. If you want a service that can horizontally scale infinitely, learn Erlang and use the BEAM VM.

We dont know rust

There is a solution to this problem and it doesn’t involve writing any lines of Java or reimplementing a whole system.

Hard disagree. I think Java is objectively bad.

I can give Rust to a completely inexperienced dev straight out if high school and they will be able to write a multi threaded program without data races since Rust was designed so that isn’t possible. That’s one example of many.

Even null is something the creator of null said was an objective mistake, and that concept is embedded into Java, while it doesn’t exist in Rust.

Learning Rust to the point where your code is correct is absolutely not hard at all, which is why it’s so bizarre when people create projects like this.

This is not true, Lemmy can definitely have plugins and there is an extensive discussion about this topic. The conclusion is that plugins should be implemented in webassembly, so that they can be written in many different languages. See extism for details. Whats needed is someone with a clear use case who can implement a proof of concept, as it wouldnt make sense to add plugin hooks that no one uses.

Also mod tools can be implemented as api clients such as LemmyAutomod.

You are misreading my post and putting words in my mouth.

The point was not wanting to do the survey. Not at all. Just that isI’d presumed there would have been more concrete concepts in there.

Why are you responding this way? Seems a bit reactive.

Hey Ruud. Overall the post comes across as if it has odd intentions. It does not clearly state the purpose of the post but it explains a bunch of what it is not. In corporate America and American politics we are constantly getting these kinds of messages. It almost always means everything that is addressed in the message is about to happen. The person that wrote the information is trying to tell the reader how to think instead of providing information and allowing the reader to draw their own conclusions.

You have mentioned your other servers in the fediverse in the past, and it was always in this type of informative, “draw your own conclusions” type of post. I appreciate that, and can respect it.

The proper way to introduce sublinks would be in a similar vain, to simply state that it exists and what its merits are versus Lemmy. If change may be coming to Lemmy.world, simply explain the reasoning behind those decisions. It is great if you can involve the community, but the involvement should be following the principals and alignment of the community to engage with them. Microsoft as a service for providing my personal details is not aligned with my values. Perhaps if I lived in the EU I would feel differently, but in the USA I have little choice but to avoid these companies entirely.

A survey is often a tool used to gauge how to administer a change that will be unpopular, and this usually means the change in direction addressed in the survey has already been decided.

My concern could be completely misplaced. I have not punched a hole in my firewall for Microsoft or agreed to their terms of service to see the content of the survey. The only information I have is what is posted here.

My concern has nothing to do with the obvious joke. I am concerned that this post does not describe its purpose clearly, it implies major changes are coming, and it promotes feedback in a way that does not align with my principals as a very active user here. On a separate note, the comment about sociology is curious for its unsolicited randomness. Do you run any scientific experiments in the background or allow other to do so?

I default to a skeptical line of questioning , but I am not trying to be negative or accusatory. It is mostly a desire to learn and understand what is happening under the surface.

Aaah, so the plan is to run sublinks on, say, sublinks.world and keep lemmy.world running with lemmy? Like you do with the mastodon alternatives?

You answered none of that user’s questions at all and used your post to tear them down.

Yeah fine power tripping here nothing else to see folks . also they aren’t “foss elitist” you said the survey was “anonymous” and they explained how its not.

You know that in the FOSS space Microsoft does not have a good standing. Asking people on a FOSS based social media to give anonymous answers about another FOSS project through a Microsoft service is a bit of an oversight.

Better mod tool and a more common and well known programming language. A seperate team for UI/Design and API, so that the development goes faster and goes to multiple checks before it gets released. It is lemmy api compatible, so your iphone or android app will still work.

Sublinks has a roadmap too, to give everyone a glimpse where everything is and what is planned. And Sublinks developers welcome everyone that want to support the project, even non developers that want to input their ideas or personal experience.

Sublinks will add some moderation tools for mods and instance admins, to have a better control over their instance and to reduce spam, trolls or illegal content ( not pirated but that BAD porn stuff )

They say they plan for better mod tooling, but so far it’s still not released so it’s difficult to know how it will be different or better (and whether Lemmy will get better tooling by that point also).