A mouse is not a complex device. African countries can produce computer mice. I mean, using USB requires paying for the license and circuitry for the USB controller, which is why I hate USB for simple periphery, older interfaces solve the problem better. Anyways, they can produce USB mice too. They can even easier produce PS/2 mice.
Damn, that’s pretty racist. You know I come from an “African country” that produces Mercedes right, or like, did the first heart transplant.
Im not sure what you’re trying to infer by what you’re saying, like we’re all some backwards ass fuckwits with 0 ability to do anything?
Fuck, we used to produce our own RAM at a stage. Nuclear bombs even.
Im not sure what you’re trying to infer by what you’re saying, like we’re all some backwards ass fuckwits with 0 ability to do anything? Fuck, we used to produce our own RAM at a stage. Nuclear bombs even.
I live in Russia, I could have written “ex-USSR and African countries” so that you’d not feel offended. Would have the same meaning.
Point being having actual electronics production and not assembly.
Not in every dimension, but in that of producing computer mice yes it is. Which is all that is relevant to this conversation.
By the way, I know that sub-Saharan Africa in general is becoming better very fast, and that Sahel has record population growth, and that Africa as a continent has bright future.
While Russia may hope for that only after a fucking revolution.
The irony of somebody from Russia calling anywhere else a shithole is just profound. Don’t you guys have to pour water in your toilets to flush them? The rest of the world has indoor plumbing mate, even Africa.
Anyway everyone knows that China produces all of the cheap crap anyway, so why wouldn’t you go at them?
USB is better for modern computing since it doesnt operate on an interrupt basis, like PS2, that’s the problem with PS2, USB is polling based, so it always calls, which also means it’s a lot more versatile and flexible, because you can just call and receive whatever the fuck you want from it.
If you were to use PS2 today, you would likely see a significant performance impact.
Apparently nobody understood in which context this was said.
I meant a Star Wars Expanded Universe-like or solarpunk-like or some other imagined future (but with that element of utopia) world where computers are produced as widely as screwdrivers, are more modular and interoperable and competencies are also more widespread, and where computing is radically simpler due to these two requirements. Because you can’t have TSMC fabs everywhere.
USB is by far too complex a protocol for this when you don’t necessarily need it.
Also many motherboards still have PS/2 , no significant performance impacts, you might have mixed something up. Anyway, from a computer mouse you don’t need much.
it’s mostly a legacy thing, either industry boards which are used with windows 95, or boards that just include PS2 because, features™
no significant performance impacts
well, part of the problem is that in order to handle mouse inputs, the PS2 calls an interrupt which stops the entire cpu and forces it to focus on the user input, until it kills it likely over a cycle count metric, and then returns back to what it was doing, though perhaps this was back in the day when interrupts were more common, i wouldn’t be surprised if modern PS2 is just conversion into USB lmao.
you can argue that USB is complex, and it’s not all that complex, it’s just serialized data transmission, the benefit of it’s “complexity” being the massively increased transmission bandwidth compared to something like serial, which is like 32kb/s historically.
Yes, I know. I should clarify that all this was in the context of some imagined future sustainable computing with decentralized production and a bit of luddism.
As in “how would we live in spacefaring future if the PCs we could have were all comparable to Amiga 500”.
that’s definitely an interesting thought, i would figure it’s probably the most primitive source of communication, I.E. directly managed serial, or probably ethernet, which has an extremely broad range of applications, and standards, from anything from coaxial cables and ring networks, to twisted pair serialized transmission and switched tree networks.
I’m not trying to disagree here but I was curious, this is what I discovered:
"Yes, it is possible to make a USB device without paying the licensing fee, but there are limitations and risks involved:
No USB Logo: You won’t be able to use the official USB logo on your product or marketing materials. The USB logo signifies that the product has passed compliance testing and adheres to USB standards.
Compliance Issues: Without certification, there is no guarantee that your device will be fully compliant with USB specifications. This could lead to interoperability issues with other USB devices and systems.
Legal Risks: Using USB technology without proper licensing and certification might expose you to legal risks if the USB-IF enforces its intellectual property rights.
Market Perception: Consumers and businesses often prefer certified products as they are deemed reliable and trustworthy. Lacking certification might affect your product’s market acceptance.
Despite these challenges, some manufacturers choose to proceed without licensing, especially for low-cost or experimental products. However, for commercial and mass-market products, obtaining proper certification is generally advisable to ensure quality and legal compliance."
A mouse is not a complex device. African countries can produce computer mice. I mean, using USB requires paying for the license and circuitry for the USB controller, which is why I hate USB for simple periphery, older interfaces solve the problem better. Anyways, they can produce USB mice too. They can even easier produce PS/2 mice.
Damn, that’s pretty racist. You know I come from an “African country” that produces Mercedes right, or like, did the first heart transplant.
Im not sure what you’re trying to infer by what you’re saying, like we’re all some backwards ass fuckwits with 0 ability to do anything? Fuck, we used to produce our own RAM at a stage. Nuclear bombs even.
South Africa excluded as a former colonial state.
I live in Russia, I could have written “ex-USSR and African countries” so that you’d not feel offended. Would have the same meaning.
Point being having actual electronics production and not assembly.
Russia is a shithole
Not in every dimension, but in that of producing computer mice yes it is. Which is all that is relevant to this conversation.
By the way, I know that sub-Saharan Africa in general is becoming better very fast, and that Sahel has record population growth, and that Africa as a continent has bright future.
While Russia may hope for that only after a fucking revolution.
These are just irrelevant.
The irony of somebody from Russia calling anywhere else a shithole is just profound. Don’t you guys have to pour water in your toilets to flush them? The rest of the world has indoor plumbing mate, even Africa.
Anyway everyone knows that China produces all of the cheap crap anyway, so why wouldn’t you go at them?
Are you high or something? Why would we?
I would expect an entire continent to have some variability.
China produces all of the crap. Without the “cheap” constraint.
Isn’t USB like…a mandatory standard now on all devices?
It’s complex enough if you are making some hobbyist device.
I’m imagining some world with production of anything related to personal computers being as decentralized as that of hand screwdrivers.
In that context USB is complex.
USB is better for modern computing since it doesnt operate on an interrupt basis, like PS2, that’s the problem with PS2, USB is polling based, so it always calls, which also means it’s a lot more versatile and flexible, because you can just call and receive whatever the fuck you want from it.
If you were to use PS2 today, you would likely see a significant performance impact.
Apparently nobody understood in which context this was said.
I meant a Star Wars Expanded Universe-like or solarpunk-like or some other imagined future (but with that element of utopia) world where computers are produced as widely as screwdrivers, are more modular and interoperable and competencies are also more widespread, and where computing is radically simpler due to these two requirements. Because you can’t have TSMC fabs everywhere.
USB is by far too complex a protocol for this when you don’t necessarily need it.
Also many motherboards still have PS/2 , no significant performance impacts, you might have mixed something up. Anyway, from a computer mouse you don’t need much.
it’s mostly a legacy thing, either industry boards which are used with windows 95, or boards that just include PS2 because, features™
well, part of the problem is that in order to handle mouse inputs, the PS2 calls an interrupt which stops the entire cpu and forces it to focus on the user input, until it kills it likely over a cycle count metric, and then returns back to what it was doing, though perhaps this was back in the day when interrupts were more common, i wouldn’t be surprised if modern PS2 is just conversion into USB lmao.
you can argue that USB is complex, and it’s not all that complex, it’s just serialized data transmission, the benefit of it’s “complexity” being the massively increased transmission bandwidth compared to something like serial, which is like 32kb/s historically.
Yes, I know. I should clarify that all this was in the context of some imagined future sustainable computing with decentralized production and a bit of luddism.
As in “how would we live in spacefaring future if the PCs we could have were all comparable to Amiga 500”.
that’s definitely an interesting thought, i would figure it’s probably the most primitive source of communication, I.E. directly managed serial, or probably ethernet, which has an extremely broad range of applications, and standards, from anything from coaxial cables and ring networks, to twisted pair serialized transmission and switched tree networks.
deleted by creator
I’m not trying to disagree here but I was curious, this is what I discovered:
"Yes, it is possible to make a USB device without paying the licensing fee, but there are limitations and risks involved:
No USB Logo: You won’t be able to use the official USB logo on your product or marketing materials. The USB logo signifies that the product has passed compliance testing and adheres to USB standards.
Compliance Issues: Without certification, there is no guarantee that your device will be fully compliant with USB specifications. This could lead to interoperability issues with other USB devices and systems.
Legal Risks: Using USB technology without proper licensing and certification might expose you to legal risks if the USB-IF enforces its intellectual property rights.
Market Perception: Consumers and businesses often prefer certified products as they are deemed reliable and trustworthy. Lacking certification might affect your product’s market acceptance.
Despite these challenges, some manufacturers choose to proceed without licensing, especially for low-cost or experimental products. However, for commercial and mass-market products, obtaining proper certification is generally advisable to ensure quality and legal compliance."