Ukraine sacks army recruitment chiefs in anti-graft shakeup
www.reuters.com
President Volodymyr Zelenskiy broadened his battle against graft on Friday, firing all the heads of Ukraine's regional army recruitment centres as the war with Russia enters a critical stage.
  • ArxCyberwolf@lemmy.ca
    97·
    1 year ago

    I knew from reading the headline that Hexbear’s horde of mouthbreathers would show up to brigade and spread their propaganda. Sure enough, here we are

    Edit: You guys really are just proving my point lmao

    • tvbusy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      88·
      1 year ago

      Making education so expensive that the only way for some to pursue education is to die for their country is a crime. If majority of your citizen view being part of army is only for poor people, your country does not deserve to be protected because obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.

    • maporita@unilem.org
      43·
      1 year ago

      I have the opposite view. A country at war should have the draft, and there should be no exceptions, so that the politicians who send other people’s children off to fight also have to send their own.

      Most soldiers in a “professional” army are there because their families are poor and they have few other options to make a living.

      • Echinoderm@aussie.zoneEnglish
        16·
        1 year ago

        There will always be exceptions, for example for disabilities or medical conditions. Most of those exceptions will be more accessible to wealthy or influential families that can afford to pay off doctors than poorer families.

      • Mic_Check_One_Two@reddthat.com
        8·
        1 year ago

        Make declaration of war a mandatory vote for every citizen. Anyone who votes “yes” (or illegally abstains) gets registered for the draft. Anyone who votes “no” is unregistered.

        I know it’s not really feasible because governments need to be able to react swiftly in times of war. But these days with computers and cell phones, there’s very little reason that the government couldn’t push a “go download our secure voting app/visit this link to cast your vote” notification via the emergency alert broadcasting system.

        • lukzak@lemmy.ml
          10·
          1 year ago

          How do you reckon it would work when it comes to age? Is the vote limited just to people of military age? Does this mean that whether or not to declare war effectively falls in the hands of ~18 - 30 year olds?

          Or is it open to everyone and even some old warhawk could be drafted? Are handicapped people not allowed to vote? Women that don’t meet combat standards?

          There is always the option to draft them into some sort of non-combat role. But if you knew you were only going for a non-combat role, it could be a lot easier to vote “yes”.

      • GodlessCommie@lemmy.world
        3·
        1 year ago

        Politicians didn’t send their own children when there was a draft in the US. Trump AND Biden are evidence of this

        • maporita@unilem.org
          2·
          1 year ago

          Trump and Biden both avoided the draft with “1-Y” (medical) exemption. Keep in mind that more than half the 27 million eligible males were exempted or disqualified for some reason, so it’s not as if this was something only politicians did.

    • StalinForTime [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      35·
      1 year ago

      I’m not sure there are no situations in which draft’s are permissible. If we were in a socialist society and a fascist government invades and I were Commissar of War you bet your ass the ex-bourgeois are getting drafted.

      • spectre [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        31·
        1 year ago

        I see your point, but that’s a topic that should be up for discussion among your hypothetical Party/legislature. I don’t think it has a clear answer.

        • StalinForTime [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          5·
          1 year ago

          100% agree. Me presenting it as a choice by a single Commissar for War is more tongue-in-cheek. The answer whether or we should do it is contextual but my point is that there are clear cases which I can imagine in which drafting would be clearly justified, even if of only certain groups.

          But responding to a question of whether or not we should do something by saying it would be decided democratically is evading the actual question of what you would put forward or support as appropriate policy in such a scenario. If everyone one responded that way then nothing would be decided.

      • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        12·
        1 year ago

        In this hypothetical wouldn’t the boogies and Kulacks would be in Gulags already? A bunch would be willing to sign on if it meant they might get an early release after the war. No draft necessary.

    • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      25·
      1 year ago

      draft is precisly because of that necessary , its put a general price on “Imperial adventure” while proffessional army will recruit itself from the lower classes and can be spend easly (they choose soo ) , its a bad as its forces the underprivledge to die for an empire whos fruits the privledge eat , while avoiding the blood…

        • marx_mentat [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          10·
          1 year ago

          Volunteer service means wars are waged outside of public consciousness now. The Afghanistan war went on for 20 years and was essentially invisible to most people in the US. The Fed openly trying to increase unemployment is at least partially motivated by the military recruitment issues going on right now. Volunteer wars are fueled by the lives of desperate poor people.

    • flipht@kbin.social
      15·
      1 year ago

      Lack of a draft is almost directly and solely responsible for the current quagmire of the US military - when we had a draft, normal people were pulled and had to serve with other normal people. They had real lives to go back to. They had family and friends who would listen to them and write their representatives to complain if the use of those human resources was inappropriate. Seeing body bags flying home and a televised razing of a foreign jungle turned a lot of people off from war. And they made their voices heard.

      Now, the only people being asked to pay attention are career military professionals. They often do not have a job or life outside of the military to tie them to normal life. They’ve also gotten smarter about where they fly corpses in, so the news can’t provide a solid day-by-day count of the wasted lives. These folks aren’t pushing back against the worst excesses of the military, because their college benefit or their pension require them to shut up and just do what they’re told.

      There’s a great documentary called Sir! No, Sir! about the vibrant protest movement from within the military, driven mostly by draftees during Vietnam.

      I don’t disagree with your initial reasoning, but there’s a different take that says that what we have allowed is for the worst of us to control the policy for all of us, with nearly no external oversight.

      • bouh@lemmy.world
        1·
        1 year ago

        This is a difficult problem to solve for a society though. The army is needed, because it’s what allows your country to exist. In time of peace, draft is really not optimal, because people are taken a year of their life for absolutely nothing. But the army need to keep its structure alive and functioning, or there’ll be nothing when it’s needed.

        The army of professionals is a good solution, and they do a hard job to keep an important piece of the state alive when no one cares about it.

        Ultimately I think it’s better if poor people make the core of the army because it means ultimately the safety of the nation is in their hands. Still, culture of the military men should be better taken care of, and elitism of the command structure should be fought.

    • bane_killgrind@kbin.social
      6·
      1 year ago

      Being in a country with a very high population means you have the privilege of enough volunteers to protect your borders.

    • Wanderer@lemm.ee
      2·
      1 year ago

      I would be more likely to go the other way starship troopers style only those with the character to defend their country should have the right to vote in that country. Those leeching off the system and letting others doing the difficult things shouldn’t be rewarded

            • Wanderer@lemm.ee
              1·
              1 year ago

              First thing was that no draft is stupid and even something like starship troopers needing to serve the country in some way to be worth of a vote isn’t the worst idea in the world so it’s better than that. You don’t think there is anything at all in having some means of people that are willing to do more for their country be it military or otherwise should have more of a vote than those that do nothing and would leave it the second it isn’t doing enough for them? Some people want to make their country and the world a better place, why should they get less than someone that does nothing.

              I’m not arguing that Turing should have been on the front line or that the Bevin Boys weren’t serving their country and willing to do everything possible to help their country and should have equality. Just those trying to escape when things go bad shouldn’t have the same rights when things go well off the backs of others.

              • brain_in_a_box [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
                49·
                1 year ago

                Dude “You should have to provide service to the abstract idea that is ‘the nation’ in order to get your human rights” is just fascism, no matter how you try to spin it.

                • Wanderer@lemm.ee
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  To be protected by that country yes.

                  See how long you get to have your rights when you stop paying taxes or ignore the laws of the state

              • Kuori [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
                34·
                1 year ago

                starship troopers the movie was a literal send-up of fascism and you are sitting here arguing that we should do fascism so absurd it is the realm of actual parody

                or you’re advocating for the book’s straight up fascism. either way, you should eat a bullet, nazi.

      • wahming@lemmy.world
        10·
        1 year ago

        So essentially install a military dictatorship, because only the military gets any votes?

        • Wanderer@lemm.ee
          1·
          1 year ago

          I was on about the book.

          The film is great but philosophically it’s a shadow of the book.

      • AnarchoYeasty@beehaw.org
        4·
        1 year ago

        So only able bodied men and women. Big yikes. Also people who aren’t soldiers are leeches. Even bigger yikes.

        • Wanderer@lemm.ee
          1·
          1 year ago

          Obviously not read starship troopers thet make it very clear that anyone can serve and will be accommodated. And they make it very clear that being in the military isn’t the only way to serve.

          It’s just above providing for your country and earning the right to vote.

          • AnarchoYeasty@beehaw.org
            4·
            1 year ago

            Oh well if starship fucking troopers says it. You do realize that’s satire right. Jesus fuck you fascists are so fucking oblivious it isn’t funny.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldBEnglish
    74·
    1 year ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:

    KYIV, Aug 11 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy broadened his battle against graft on Friday, firing all the heads of Ukraine’s regional army recruitment centres as the war with Russia enters a critical stage.

    Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.

    Ukraine has made cracking down on graft a priority as it fends off Russia’s full-scale invasion and seeks membership of the European Union and has fired or prosecuted a string of high-ranking officials implicated in sleaze.

    Zelenskiy said that any sacked army recruitment officers who are not being investigated should head to the front to fight for Ukraine “if they want to keep their epaulettes and prove their dignity”.

    Videos purporting to depict army recruiters aggressively pursuing or becoming violent with would-be draftees have gone viral on social media in the country, which has been under martial law since the invasion.

    Zelenskiy said top general Valery Zaluzhny would be responsible for implementing Friday’s decision and that new candidates for the posts would first be vetted by Ukraine’s domestic security service, the SBU.

    I’m a bot and I’m open source!

    • harc@szmer.infoEnglish
      81·
      1 year ago

      Misses important bit;

      “This system should be run by people who know exactly what war is and why cynicism and bribery during war is treason,” he said, adding that those fired would be replaced by recent veterans and soldiers wounded at the front.

      • SheeEttin@lemmy.worldEnglish
        23·
        1 year ago

        those fired would be replaced by recent veterans and soldiers wounded at the front

        Somehow I’m not sure that they would be the most effective recruiters.

        • mindlight@lemm.ee
          42·
          1 year ago

          They’re not trying to sell a bright future like military recruiters in the US. People are forced to do their military service by law and the recruiters are responsible to match the drafted people with the role that fits best.

        • Notyou@sopuli.xyz
          9·
          1 year ago

          I beg to differ. The applicants talking to recent vets or wounded soldiers know that these people could be their future. It is important to know all the possible outcomes, including possible PSTD, death, or dismemberment. Having recruiters that are too disconnected from the human war cost is a disservice, in my opinion.

          I think I missed my point in there. They would be more effective when those new soldiers are on the frontline fighting, instead of selling a false image of how easy joining would be. That false sell would result in wasted resources training soldiers that wouldn’t be as effective. Sometimes it’s better to have less people in your unit, when the extra bodies (that were lied to) would cause more wasted time and energy. Time and energy that should be focused on war.

        • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
          1·
          1 year ago

          I doesn’t matter if the guy serving draft notices was wounded.

          I guess some of the lucky conscripts will try to run away and then it might matter.

  • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    70·
    1 year ago

    That’s not a good sign for Ukraine in what is an attrition war. Even their own military is making plans to smuggle their men out if the country because they don’t want to send them to the death trap that is the heavily reinforced WW1 like frontlines. And Zelensky’s response is just to fire and try replace the people doing that, instead of looking as to why that is happening. If the counter offensive tactics are so dire that your own military is doing corruption to avoid sending men to the front, maybe that needs reassessment.

    Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.

    • 𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍@midwest.social
      17·
      1 year ago

      I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, and I’m certainly no expert. However, I do know that Ukraine has long struggled with corruption, and has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades. And they will always have (there are always, in any conflict) a certain level of partisanship in their own ranks.

      I’ve been mildly concerned about what could happen after the invasion; assuming Ukraine is successful, Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship. However, so far I’ve seen little to indicate that he’s anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader – I like the guy, and I’m inclined to trust his judgement. He’s done unexpectedly well so far, and Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.

      Maybe Ukraine leadership is making a mistake, but maybe they know something us armchair Generals don’t.

      • SoyViking [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        53·
        1 year ago

        Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.

        I agree with this sentence but I think we have very different ideas of what the “ethical ideals of the EU” are.

      • Sasuke [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        52·
        1 year ago

        if you ukraine were to win the war (and they won’t) whatever remains of their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts. a lot of the ‘aid’ they’ve received—from the ‘highly ethical’ EU among others—consists of loans that are to be paid back in full and with interest.

        and we already know what the cost of these foreign ‘‘aid’’ packages are; privatization (already well under way—ukraine even has their own website); austerity; lower wages; poorer working condition; a crackdown on labor rights and organizing (like banning left-wing parties in your country, which zelensky has already done), etc.

        • NoGodsNoMasters [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
          31·
          1 year ago

          their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts.

          But Zelenskyy told me that Ukraine was going to reach a 1 trillion GDP in 10 years by deregulating, selling off public assets, and reforming social programmes. Are you really suggesting he would lie like that?

          • Bnova [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            6·
            1 year ago

            GDP is just a measurement of money exchanging hands, so I don’t doubt that Zelensky, a man in the Pandora papers for money laundering could figure out a way to get their GDP to a trillion.

      • macabrett [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        50·
        1 year ago

        Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.

        Doesn’t seem very ethical to me to ban your opposition parties for being left wing.

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        38·
        1 year ago

        has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades

        Zelensky was literally in the Pandora Papers lmao

      • spectre [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        37·
        1 year ago

        You don’t see his pandering to the EU as stumbling backwards into this whole situation in the first place?

        I understand that it comes across as provocative, but from what I understand about his (attempted) maneuvering over the past couple years, he’s kind of a spineless and weak leader who trusted the wrong side and got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.

        NATO and the US are not trustworthy allies, and they let him talk up "Ukraine joining NATO ", a very dangerous thing to do, but I don’t believe they had any intention of letting them in at any point. Zelensky should have understood this.

        • Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works
          14·
          1 year ago

          got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.

          Russia already invaded ukraine and took control of crimea 5 years before Zelensky became president.

          To view this invasion as totally separate and then blame Zelensky for getting invaded is kinda insane to me.

      • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        34·
        1 year ago

        I’ve seen little to indicate that he’s anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader

        Zelenski is a trained actor.

        Did you see any signs Jack Gleeson wasn’t a petty psychotic little shit in Game of thrones? He’s actually a pretty cool guy in real life.

          • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            18·
            1 year ago

            No. I am comparing an actor playing a part to an actor playing a part.

            Which careers pass your “ok to be voted into presidency” test?

            Career doesn’t matter. Its who holds their purse strings that matters. Same man who paid Zelensky the actor, paid for Zelensky the president’s campaign. (and also funded neo-nazi paramilitary groups) Same boss. Just a bigger billing. Same job different character.

      • FakeNewsForDogs [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        33·
        1 year ago

        Ukraine is fucked. As others have pointed out, western vultures are already carving it up via mass privatization (though they may be disappointed with what’s left when the war is over). The “counteroffensive” went nowhere and whether Russia marches all the way to Odessa is really just a question of if they want to at this point. The war was lost before it started and Ukraine will be lucky if it doesn’t get annexed to pieces by Poland et al in the coming months. Best case it keeps some manner of territorial integrity and limps along as a failed state. Not sure Zelensky deserves all the blame for this disaster, as the wheels were in motion at least as early as 2014, but they definitely bet on the wrong horse here.

        • 7bicycles [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          18·
          1 year ago

          The people moaning about people from Romania and Bulgaria are neither the ones profiting from their cheap labour here nor are they who calls the shots on the matter

        • 𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍@midwest.social
          1·
          1 year ago

          I don’t know. The EU has been having a bit of a crisis, with candidates from several member states floating the idea of their own Brexits, financial struggles, and bad faith actors. I would hope that if Ukraine met the conditions for membership, then yes. It had been doing pretty well, financially and rule-of-law -wise; maybe not perfect, but steadily improving.

          I was surprised by Trump, by Brexit, by the political successes of far-right politicians (Rachele Mussolonis) across Europe. I have no idea which way any of these countries will break.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
        6·
        1 year ago

        Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship

        Yes and no. His poll numbers surged from about 30% to 88% after the invasion but Ukrainians want a EU path and Dictator Zelenzkyy would be in the way of that. He could certainly win another term in a landslide and do a de Gaulle but I kinda doubt he’s even interested in that, he certainly wasn’t terribly ecstatic about it before the war and with how things are looking martial law is going to continue past the election date, that is, there’s going to be no elections. Meaning that at the end of it all there’s going to be a Zelenskyy who’s first going to take a vacation, and then do another season of servant of the people. Opening scene: Goloborodko wins the elections against the incumbent, a comedian who saved the nation from calamity due to sheer stupid luck (something about an asteroid if I remember my season 1 right). Finally, someone with proper qualifications in office again, a history teacher!

  • egg1918 [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    22·
    1 year ago

    I hope to God they get sent to the very fucking front. Every last one of them. It made me sick watching videos of these cowards kidnapping men on the streets, beating the shit out of them, then forcing them into the army while taking bribes from rich people to leave them alone. Then to watch videos of those brand new recruits getting obliterated in bradleys and MRAPS by artillery.

    I seriously hope each of these fucking murderers steps on a land mine or gets their air and life ripped out of their lungs by a thermobaric rocket.