Because it’s a really difficult job that requires a lot of training. The question is not why doctors make that much, the question is why so many other people make so little.
A lot of training that you have to pay a lot of money to get, then more on the job training that you get paid (relative) peanuts for.
A lot of other countries have better support for people during these training periods, so the US equivalent takes on a lot more debt and a lot more risk to attain these higher salaries.
If the barriers to entry in the medical field were lower, the salaries would be as well.
I looked up salaries of Canadian doctors just to compare. Seems like the average is about $300,000 Canadian dollars or about $225,000 USD. So Canadian doctors make about 2/3rds of what they make across the border. That indicates its not necessarily all about training or difficulty.
It’s a common problem in Canadian healthcare that workers leave to the US for a considerable pay bump, which is part of what the article talks about. Are American doctors just in it for the money?
The cost of living is lower in Canada? That’s gotta be a new one. Literally everybody in Canada complains about how the cost of living there is skyrocketing. Their home prices are worse than Cali. I was just up there in 2021 and it was pennys on the dollar for me with exchange rates, but stuff was definitely expensive up there compared to even Cali where I’m from. The only thing cheaper is healthcare and schooling but that’s just subsidized.
Canadians in many fields make 2/3rds or less than their American counterparts.
Also, education is more subsidized in Canada.
Are American doctors just in it for the money?
This is a strange question. You think European or Canadian doctors are just more noble and selfless? They all take the best salary they can get, all other things being equal. But the US has a higher median income along with a convoluted medical system in which profits are unusually high, and doctors get a share of that.
The doctors in the UK are doing the same job, at 1/2 the cost to consumers. The doctors in Germany are doing the same job, at 2/3 the cost to consumers. It’s hard to ignore that the main difference is that the US health care system is a massive profiteering scam throughout the system.
Did you finish reading the article? Here’s a quote from it:
“People have a narrative that physician earnings is one of the main drivers of high health-care costs in the U.S.,” Polyakova told us. “It is kind of hard to support this narrative if ultimately physicians earn less than 10 percent of national health-care expenditures.”
There is certainly too much money in American heathcare, but doctors are a pretty small part of the problem.
They didn’t. If you go to the hospital, and are charged $12k for a 3 day stay, $20k for an MRI, and $1.5k for general medicine, Dr’s working for free would reduce your costs from $33.5k to just under $31k.
This is like having a massive bleed from an artery on your leg, but you put a bandaid on a scrape on your arm instead.
That only accounts for physician labor, not other labor involved. Nurses, administrators, other operational labor that isn’t a Dr.
But the point of contention was Dr salary, not overall labor costs with healthcare, so it shouldn’t necessarily be relevant to this particular conversation. I’m sure there are plenty of people who also take issue with the legion of administrators insurance companies pay to handle visits and services, as well as the number of people hospitals pay to try to claw money out of them as well. They provide nothing to the healthcare service, and exist only to try to keep/gain as much funding as possible. You don’t have less cancer because Tom at BCBS was able to deny the Tylenol they gave you two months ago.
The very same doctors who are getting paid extra for selling specific brands of drugs and treatments? It’s a profiteering scam from top to bottom and the doctors are obviously complicit. “Doing a job” my ass, plenty of unethical things in this world are done by people “just doing their job”, in fact - most of them.
Who do you think writes the medical textbooks handed out to med students? Part of the scam is in the training how and what to prescribe. Many doctors will treat the symptoms while ignoring the cause. A proper healthy diet and exercise could cure a lot of things, but that’s not profitable advice to give.
I know a woman who spent years fighting a bunch of skin problems and other issues, visiting all kinds of doctors. Finally she figured it out herself. She had turned herself entirely “vegan” for probably a decade or longer, choosing to forgo all meat, especially red meat. Guess what fixed her big issues? Eating a small filet of steak several times a month - her blood type and genetics required something that she was lacking in all her other vitamins/minerals/etc intake. Not saying eating red meat every day is good for the average person either, but just one example where her condition stumped doctors for several years before she chased down a wild theory herself and it worked.
Sorry OP. I want the best and brightest in charge of my healthcare. And I’m willing to pay those wages to get it. If you wanna pay less I’m sure there are any number of natural healers that’ll give you an onion or a rock for your ills.
But paying AVERAGE wages of 350k doesn’t at all get you “the best and the brightest”. And capitalism doesn’t work in the healthcare industry. You don’t get to chose your ER doctor, nor do you even know how much your doctor makes. You have captive markets, so it is a profiteering system. And other people aren’t willing to pay a profiteering charge.
It gets me the best and brightest compared to you. I, specifically, want someone smarter and more capable than you working on me. Those people cost more than you do. If you want to look for graft in the healthcare industry look at hospital bureaucracy or insurance companies. Skilled workers are a stupid target. Harassing them makes healthcare worse.
It gets me the best and brightest compared to you.
It does not. 350k salary gets you a completely average doctor. And if the average salary was only 250k we would all still have the same doctors. My doctors are just as good and probably better than yours. And you cannot even chose your own doctors at all unless you have Obamacare. Nobody goes out and hires their own doctors at all lol. You are imagining some ivory tower theory, not talking about the real world of medicine in the USA.
I, specifically, want someone smarter and more capable than you working on me. Those people cost more than you do.
Are you hallucinating? Stay with me buddy. I…do…not…work…in…the…medical…industry. And if I did I would charge you more than 350k/year despite being completely unqualified since my time is worth more than that.
You’re clearly missing his point. He’s saying that keeping doctor salaries higher than other fields draws talent to the field of medicine from other fields.
Your point about not choosing your doctors is largely correct, but once again, the target of that criticism should be insurance companies, not the doctors themselves.
The closest that I would say there is to profiteering is that the American medical education is a very long hazing ritual where the financial risk of not becoming a doctor falls on the students.
Because it’s a really difficult job that requires a lot of training. The question is not why doctors make that much, the question is why so many other people make so little.
A lot of training that you have to pay a lot of money to get, then more on the job training that you get paid (relative) peanuts for.
A lot of other countries have better support for people during these training periods, so the US equivalent takes on a lot more debt and a lot more risk to attain these higher salaries.
If the barriers to entry in the medical field were lower, the salaries would be as well.
I looked up salaries of Canadian doctors just to compare. Seems like the average is about $300,000 Canadian dollars or about $225,000 USD. So Canadian doctors make about 2/3rds of what they make across the border. That indicates its not necessarily all about training or difficulty.
It’s a common problem in Canadian healthcare that workers leave to the US for a considerable pay bump, which is part of what the article talks about. Are American doctors just in it for the money?
The cost of living in Canada is substantially lower though, so you need to figure that into it.
The cost of living is lower in Canada? That’s gotta be a new one. Literally everybody in Canada complains about how the cost of living there is skyrocketing. Their home prices are worse than Cali. I was just up there in 2021 and it was pennys on the dollar for me with exchange rates, but stuff was definitely expensive up there compared to even Cali where I’m from. The only thing cheaper is healthcare and schooling but that’s just subsidized.
https://livingcost.org/cost/canada/united-states
Canadians in many fields make 2/3rds or less than their American counterparts.
Also, education is more subsidized in Canada.
This is a strange question. You think European or Canadian doctors are just more noble and selfless? They all take the best salary they can get, all other things being equal. But the US has a higher median income along with a convoluted medical system in which profits are unusually high, and doctors get a share of that.
Or is it related to the fact that the US health care system is a profiteering scam.
[“In general, U.S. physicians are making about 50 percent more than German physicians and about more than twice as much as U.K. physicians,” ]
The doctors being paid properly are hardly what I’d consider a profiteering scam. Attack insurance. Attack billing. The doctors are doing a job.
The doctors in the UK are doing the same job, at 1/2 the cost to consumers. The doctors in Germany are doing the same job, at 2/3 the cost to consumers. It’s hard to ignore that the main difference is that the US health care system is a massive profiteering scam throughout the system.
Did you finish reading the article? Here’s a quote from it:
There is certainly too much money in American heathcare, but doctors are a pretty small part of the problem.
They didn’t. If you go to the hospital, and are charged $12k for a 3 day stay, $20k for an MRI, and $1.5k for general medicine, Dr’s working for free would reduce your costs from $33.5k to just under $31k.
This is like having a massive bleed from an artery on your leg, but you put a bandaid on a scrape on your arm instead.
Mostly true although I am not sure if this ratio would hold tho: 33.5k to just under $31k. Labor is never such a small cost of any service fee.
That only accounts for physician labor, not other labor involved. Nurses, administrators, other operational labor that isn’t a Dr.
But the point of contention was Dr salary, not overall labor costs with healthcare, so it shouldn’t necessarily be relevant to this particular conversation. I’m sure there are plenty of people who also take issue with the legion of administrators insurance companies pay to handle visits and services, as well as the number of people hospitals pay to try to claw money out of them as well. They provide nothing to the healthcare service, and exist only to try to keep/gain as much funding as possible. You don’t have less cancer because Tom at BCBS was able to deny the Tylenol they gave you two months ago.
The very same doctors who are getting paid extra for selling specific brands of drugs and treatments? It’s a profiteering scam from top to bottom and the doctors are obviously complicit. “Doing a job” my ass, plenty of unethical things in this world are done by people “just doing their job”, in fact - most of them.
Do everyone a favor and never go to the doctor or the hospital when you get sick.
Who do you think writes the medical textbooks handed out to med students? Part of the scam is in the training how and what to prescribe. Many doctors will treat the symptoms while ignoring the cause. A proper healthy diet and exercise could cure a lot of things, but that’s not profitable advice to give.
I know a woman who spent years fighting a bunch of skin problems and other issues, visiting all kinds of doctors. Finally she figured it out herself. She had turned herself entirely “vegan” for probably a decade or longer, choosing to forgo all meat, especially red meat. Guess what fixed her big issues? Eating a small filet of steak several times a month - her blood type and genetics required something that she was lacking in all her other vitamins/minerals/etc intake. Not saying eating red meat every day is good for the average person either, but just one example where her condition stumped doctors for several years before she chased down a wild theory herself and it worked.
Sorry OP. I want the best and brightest in charge of my healthcare. And I’m willing to pay those wages to get it. If you wanna pay less I’m sure there are any number of natural healers that’ll give you an onion or a rock for your ills.
But paying AVERAGE wages of 350k doesn’t at all get you “the best and the brightest”. And capitalism doesn’t work in the healthcare industry. You don’t get to chose your ER doctor, nor do you even know how much your doctor makes. You have captive markets, so it is a profiteering system. And other people aren’t willing to pay a profiteering charge.
It gets me the best and brightest compared to you. I, specifically, want someone smarter and more capable than you working on me. Those people cost more than you do. If you want to look for graft in the healthcare industry look at hospital bureaucracy or insurance companies. Skilled workers are a stupid target. Harassing them makes healthcare worse.
It does not. 350k salary gets you a completely average doctor. And if the average salary was only 250k we would all still have the same doctors. My doctors are just as good and probably better than yours. And you cannot even chose your own doctors at all unless you have Obamacare. Nobody goes out and hires their own doctors at all lol. You are imagining some ivory tower theory, not talking about the real world of medicine in the USA.
Are you hallucinating? Stay with me buddy. I…do…not…work…in…the…medical…industry. And if I did I would charge you more than 350k/year despite being completely unqualified since my time is worth more than that.
Your Dad is a doctor huh.
You’re clearly missing his point. He’s saying that keeping doctor salaries higher than other fields draws talent to the field of medicine from other fields.
Your point about not choosing your doctors is largely correct, but once again, the target of that criticism should be insurance companies, not the doctors themselves.
The closest that I would say there is to profiteering is that the American medical education is a very long hazing ritual where the financial risk of not becoming a doctor falls on the students.