As an outsider, I’d like to remind you 'muricans that you don’t have a democracy, much less a democratic party. You have two big groups that are kept afloat by big money in need of “favors”
This must be one of the nicest ways I’ve ever seen someone call a group of people morally bankrupt whores without using any of those words
Keeping it at bay? The fuck are you smoking
Democrats do actively pass progressive reform, so who is really being duped? You who lets emotions and propaganda control your political outlook, or people who actually attempt to fight back by electing Democrats?
The biggest threat the progressive polices is the lefts inability to recognize their being played, not by the Democratic Party but by the media who baits them into blaming the party for things it cannot control.
The easiest mark is the one who thinks themselves too smart to be a mark.
You guys can’t be serious. When the Democratic Party throws up their hands and says “it’s out of our control” instead of actually fighting for progressive reform, you actually believe them? After everything we’ve seen? What will it actually take for you to realize the Democrats aren’t fighting for us?
Either you’re part of the party or you’re not. It sounds like you are not. Good luck with that.
There are many powerful people that do not want the progressive agenda to succeed and they are more than happy to play us against each other.
They are already in the head of anyone they believes this is the democratic leadership and it’s hard to accept anyone who refuses to acknowledge that on any level is truly of a progressive mindset.
The right accuses the Democrats of being radical left socialists, and the Democratic leadership responds by moving to the right. The powerful people you refer to - who do not want the progressive agenda to succeed - are the democratic leadership themselves. They work in tandem with those on the right to sabotage the efforts of progressives to gain power in the Democratic Party.
So yeah, I’m not part of the party, not by my own choice but because the party doesn’t want me. If you are truly of a progressive mindset it doesn’t want you either, but honestly it seems they’ve successfully tamed the progressivism within you.
We’re never going to badger the current DNC corporate shills into working for the people… They’ll need to be replaced before we can hope to stop the ratchet effect and start making real change
I’m sold. Let’s do it.
First step is making a place everyone can access and start collecting information… Any idea how to do that? I’m afraid I’m mostly tech illiterate
2nd step: we need to map out who actually gets to vote for DNC leadership/membership
It’s more important to just build community. It will be a slow waking up for everyone to realize elections are no longer free and fair. A strong community will form a net to catch all these people when they finally do come around.
We built a strong community for/with Bernie… While we had a mission and leadership we got things done too, but as soon as the campaign ended and there was no more guidance, the community basically disintegrated… Community needs a plan and a mission…a mutual goal to work towards as a team… Plan the strategy and pass out roles and people will get on board and join the “community”
How the hell is the first step not changing how we vote so people can vote outside the two party system and still have their votes counted against republicans?
There’s a lot of green between today and sweeping election reform that defeats the duopoly. It’s certainly a step, but it requires many preceding steps to get to a point where that’s achievable.
Gotta get people into a position where they can make that change happen. Right now the Dems block such people from getting to such positions. Gotta replace the gate keepers with progressives or we’ll never get progressives into position to make changes.
Which policy stance are you referring to?
Pretty much all of them… But how about citizens united just to throw out a big one?
Citizens United was upheld in a 5:4 voted by a conservative scotus in 2010, to overturn campaign finance laws written and passed by democrats in 1995 and 2002, and dems actually tried to put back in place some campaign finance regulations with H.R. 1 For The People Act.
In fact, they passed it twice in the house, only for it to get blocked in the senate by Republicans both times.
Thanks for the info!
I guess as a start, the DNC can and should run big money/dark money/bribe free primaries. But they refuse to run free and fair primaries because they only want their corporately anointed shills to make it to the general election. Changing how the primaries are done should be top of the list when we take over the DNC and replace the shills with progressives.
Which Primary in particular do you think was unfair?
The first Obama primary was the last real one
So you think the DNC fabricated 30 Million votes in 2016?
Just to be clear, it isn’t up to DNC committes or legislators to defeat MAGA. That’s our job. We have to go out and convince people to vote for the Democrats. Independents sometimes, too. We need to remove Maga from congress by defeating them in elections, us the citizens have to do that shit.
Stop blaming the solution for the problem we’re making, WE need to DO THIS. This is OUR JOB.
It’s absolutely the Dems job to not put up pathetic, loser candidates
Are you planning to run? If not, can it. It’d be a cold day in hell to find a dem worse than a GOP.
Removed by mod
Theres a word for people who criticize others but are no better themselves.
I am not a politician, so nice try with the hypocrite jab
Ever hear of a critic? Someone who critiques the work of others? You one of those people who thinks a film critic should also be a great filmmaker or else their opinion isn’t valid?
Same concept applies to politics
What?!
The entire point of the democratic party is to get it’s members elected.
And theyre a private party with no obligations to anyone else.
It’s the parties job to convince voters to vote. It’s not the voters job to always pick the lesser of two evils, especially when both parties use every opportunity to become more “evil” by siding with the wealthy more than regular citizens.
WE need to DO THIS. This is OUR JOB.
We’re not the ones who just wasted $1,500,000,000 and paid ourselves millions.
If it’s our job why the fuck are we paying people fighting against us to do it poorly?
I’m not paying you and you’re not paying me, but we can still volunteer, organize events, speak to our peers to get them to vote for whats right, for policy that helps them.
The party’s job is to vote on legislation. Its our job to get them there.
God forbid our public servants step away from the telethon hotline for a few minutes to actually do any fucking serving to begin with or anything…
But honestly, we’re gonna table that for a minute cuz I feel like whatever the fuck you got goin on here might be more urgent
Do you smell toast? You should absolutely google a list of stroke symptoms or something and compare notes real quick bro
Let me put it this way:
The people who are good at ceorcion and convincing others are probably the ones we don’t want in the position.
All I smell is your mom residue after I cleaned out her ass.
Removed by mod
But what matters most is the DNC chair election on 2/2/25.
And I don’t know about you, but I can’t vote in that, so I’m just waiting to see what happens
I’m optimistic though
Edit:
Sorry replied to fast:
The party’s job is to vote on legislation. Its our job to get them there.
I think the confusion is I’m talking about the actual party, the DNC.
And you seem to be talking about elected politicians who belong to the party.
Two completely different things.
Candidates for office get picked in Primaries. If you get rejected by the DNC to even be on a ticket then congrats you failed one of the lowest imaginable bars.
The DNC needs the far right. Without it, their candidates would have to run on actual positions, rather than just “Vote for us because we’re not Republicans.”
That’s not really fair. Democrats voting records and policy agenda are always on point. The fact they can’t win elections to ensure their agenda is the problem.
Democrats voting records and policy agenda are always on point
Lol. LMAO, even.
Show me some democrat policy where they weren’t reaching across the isle that you fundamentally disagree with.
Nah
My point was that their voting record is absolutely not as good as you claimed it to be
What they say they’re for is entirely irrelevant of they don’t actually back it up with their actions
It’s not, you can look at the voting record. I’m pleading with you. Youve swallowed a load of bunk.
It’s not, you can look at the voting record.
It’s not what? This reads like you agree with me
pleading with you. You’ve swallowed a load of bunk.
You have no idea what my actual beliefs might be, I’ve only pointed out that your point was silly
Too many people on the left have the attitude of “no one likes him because he has no friends” – too stupid to see their own opinion is why the situation exists.
Coupled with being unable to accept they are ever wrong and the blindness to progress that has occurred. The left is its own worst enemy. The right hasn’t had to try painting us as ineffective in decades, we do it better to ourselves.
The DNC hires the same consultants for running campaigns that the RNC use so naturally they will all veer right. The DNC has stopped trying to represent the people and wants to get their turn at the money funnel.
Go listen to the Harris campaign featured on pod save america. These losers think they made the right moves, every time, and have no vision for the future that does not acquest to the right wing agenda.
Fun fact, how many eagles they feature in campaign ads doesn’t dictate how right or left a politician is. Their voting history does. DNC as a whole is constantly veering left as polarization increased in the last 50 years.
Dems have been right of center for my entire life. It’s only because we have such far-right propaganda about socialism and such in schools that this seems normal.
Edit: when I made some comment / argument on a position in debate class when I was 15yo, the teacher whispered “socialist” to the class. I didn’t even know what that meant. Whatever I said, it was sure to be about helping people and making the world more fair to end up with that comment.
“In my view, we need a strong Republican Party. We need a Republican Party that’s united.” - Joe Biden
Joe Biden, Primary Donald Trump As A Republican - SOME MORE NEWS (2019)
Well, yeah…
The only chance an unpopular neoliberal has of being president, is the threat that they’re the only other option to Republicans.
Otherwise they’d never get any votes.
So neoliberals want Republicans to be the biggest threat possible.
The context for that quote was a 2011 interview. The Obama administration was having trouble working with the Republicans because the Tea Party movement had gotten a lot of firebrands elected where working together with Democrats to effectively govern was unthinkable. The Republican House leadership since then has been weak, which has led to multiple government shutdowns.
This is politician-talk for “get your fucking shit together, you’re embarrassing everyone”.
Many layers to Dark Brandon /s
Abstentionists: *Don’t vote for Dems*
Dems: *lose the election*
Dems: *go further right in an attempt to attract more voters*
Abstentionists: *surprised Pikachu*
I cannot believe that the democrats have completely disregarded the lead-up to, the years of the trump presidency, and everything that has followed.
One thing has been starkly and objectively true - republicans place party before country. Even if it hurts them or flies in the face of everything they claim to believe in, they’ll still vote republican. They have internally equated being a democrat to being lower than a pedophile, lower than a felon, lower than a nazi.
So no matter how far right the democrats attempt to go, the conservatives absolutely don’t give a fuck. They will set themselves on fire before they vote democrat. The Democratic Party needs to stop wasting time on them.
Abstentionists will damn themselves and everyone around them on principle. Shitty inconsistent principles at that. I’m angry about that, outraged even. But surprised? Baffled? In disbelief? Never. Dumb fucks ruining everything is just the way of the world.
This is an affirmation of your conclusion, btw. The DNC are stupid, as is the RNC base, as are abstentionists.
Aren’t you concerned with your fellow countrymen being under represented by their options available in a First Past The Post voting system? Don’t you care about democracy?
Say it louder so people in the back can hear it! This is very true, if Democrats did better in elections they would be able to accomplish more of their goals.
Yeah the American flavor of left actually enables facism. Sadly it’s the same thing you see in places like Germany, UK, Canada, and France. France is relatively better.
Except for the fact that it’s France
How exactly are they keeping them at bay?
We’re further from stomping it dead than ever before
They rule the fucking country
Keeping at bay? The Republicans have the DNC by the throat right now.
I don’t think so. If the DNC wants, they could easily win but they won’t try.
“We could easily win but we don’t want to for some reason”
:/
“For some reason”
pockets lined with benjamins
Lawmakers should be prohibited from having a net worth larger then the median house hold and required to log and post working hours, which should match the 40 hour work week the rest of us have to clock. These fucker’s have it too easy.
Well I’m surprised you aren’t aware that that “some reason” is politicians are cautious not to slight their wealthy backers.
Cool, so next time we’ll show up to support the Bernie-equivalent in the primaries unlike in 2016 and 2020, right?
Right…?
The constant refrain of “I don’t understand why the Dem party is appealing to moderates when moderates win the primaries???” is immensely frustrating. And before the usual, predictable chorus of “RIGGED PRIMARIES” comes up, no, the DNC does not play fair, but that also doesn’t mean they were stuffing the ballot boxes. They framed things in an anti-Bernie way, but that ultimately didn’t matter because both times we lost by double digit percentage points against the fuckwad moderate candidate.
Our ‘elites’ are dogshit, but the essential problem is that the American electorate is neither educated on the issues nor particularly left. That is where change starts, so get educating instead of wishing for BAD elites to be replaced by GOOD elites.
And before the usual, predictable chorus of “RIGGED PRIMARIES” comes up, no, the DNC does not play fair, but that also doesn’t mean they were stuffing the ballot boxes.
Rigged doesn’t mean predetermined outcome, it means unfair odds. Claw machines are rigged. That doesn’t mean you can’t win a prize, but it does mean the odds that you’ll win are very low.
They framed things in an anti-Bernie way…
That is a weird way to describe the Clinton campaign secretly taking over the party in 2015 and running the primary she was competing in. Here are excerpts from Donna Brazile’s book, where she lays out exactly how Hillary took over the DNC. It’s not the first time I’ve given you this information, but since you choose to ignore it, I’ll keep sharing it.
When the party chooses the nominee, the custom is that the candidate’s team starts to exercise more control over the party…When you have an open contest without an incumbent and competitive primaries, the party comes under the candidate’s control only after the nominee is certain. When I was manager of Al Gore’s campaign in 2000, we started inserting our people into the DNC in June. This victory fund agreement, however, had been signed in August 2015, just four months after Hillary announced her candidacy and nearly a year before she officially had the nomination.
The agreement—signed by Amy Dacey, the former CEO of the DNC, and Robby Mook with a copy to Marc Elias—specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party’s finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff. The DNC also was required to consult with the campaign about all other staffing, budgeting, data, analytics, and mailings.
Officials from Hillary’s campaign had taken a look at the DNC’s books. Obama left the party $24 million in debt—$15 million in bank debt and more than $8 million owed to vendors after the 2012 campaign—and had been paying that off very slowly. Obama’s campaign was not scheduled to pay it off until 2016. Hillary for America (the campaign) and the Hillary Victory Fund (its joint fundraising vehicle with the DNC) had taken care of 80 percent of the remaining debt in 2016, about $10 million, and had placed the party on an allowance.
As Hillary’s campaign gained momentum, she resolved the party’s debt and put it on a starvation diet. It had become dependent on her campaign for survival, for which she expected to wield control of its operations.
Rigged doesn’t mean predetermined outcome, it means unfair odds. Claw machines are rigged. That doesn’t mean you can’t win a prize, but it does mean the odds that you’ll win are very low.
Would you like to elaborate on the implications of ‘rigged’ in the context of a primary conducted by the votes of the electorate? Don’t play dumb.
That is a weird way to describe the Clinton campaign secretly taking over the party in 2015 and running the primary she was competing in.
Again, none of that changes the core argument I’m making here. “The DNC was on Clinton’s side”, yes, we already knew that. “Here’s evidence that the DNC was on Clinton’s side!” Yes, we already knew that. That wasn’t being denied. But hey, why take my word for it when your literal source sides with me!
Would you like to elaborate on the implications of ‘rigged’ in the context of a primary conducted by the votes of the electorate? Don’t play dumb.
Actually, no, I think my analogy of a cold, calculating machine that gives the impression of a fair contest while stacking the odds heavily towards a preferred outcome is pretty spot on.
Again, none of that changes the core argument I’m making here. “The DNC was on Clinton’s side”, yes, we already knew that.
No, the DNC wasn’t on Clinton’s side. Clinton was the DNC. She was given final say over senior staffing decisions while she was running in the primary. She was acting as the nominee when she was supposed to be a candidate. Her nomination was a forgone conclusion.
But hey, why take my word for it when your literal source sides with me!
Brazile walked back her claims a bit, saying she never specifically used the word, “rigged,” but she also described Clinton’s control over the party as a, “cancer,” so make of it what you will. Personally, I find the evidence she lays out in her book about how Clinton rigged the primary more interesting than the spin she puts on it later in the interest of party unity.
Actually, no, I think my analogy of a cold, calculating machine that gives the impression of a fair contest while stacking the odds heavily towards a preferred outcome is pretty spot on.
Oh, yes, heavily stacked by [checks notes] forcing millions to not vote for Bernie, I see.
No, the DNC wasn’t on Clinton’s side. Clinton was the DNC. She was given final say over senior staffing decisions while she was running in the primary. She was acting as the nominee when she was supposed to be a candidate. Her nomination was a forgone conclusion.
“The DNC was treating the whole situation as though Clinton already won. That means that the elections were rigged.”
???
Brazile walked back her claims a bit, saying she never specifically used the word, “rigged,” but she also described Clinton’s control over the party as a, “cancer,” so make of it what you will.
I make of it what any sane person would - that Clinton’s control over the party was deeply damaging, shady, unethical, and unwise to allow, at minimum.
That doesn’t change the essential problem that we failed in 2016 because not enough voters were on our side, and the DNC playing dipshit games with their own funding and staffing does not fundamentally alter that.
I’m sorry that there’s not a small cabal of villains for you to oppose and overthrow to fix everything. I’m sorry that the roots of our problems go much deeper, and that there’s no easy solution that, if only we had control of the party apparatus, if only we got to set the party platform and ensure the party went along with it, we could fix and ride into power on a landslide electoral victory. But playing make-believe games about rigged primaries and party elites does nothing but set you shadow boxing - or against scummy wind vanes, at best - instead of addressing the actual problems.
Wtf dude, is she like there with you rn or something? 🤣😂 Or is this just a really awkward propaganda messaging test run? If so, I’m not sure whether it’s brilliant or the dumbest goddamn thing I’ve ever seen
Pro-Clinton propaganda is when you think Clinton is an incompetent scumbag, but the cause of Bernie losing the primary was a balance of almost 4 million voters not turning out for the superior option because the American electorate is dumb as shit?
That’s an interesting take.
Oh, yes, heavily stacked by [checks notes] forcing millions to not vote for Bernie, I see.
The DNC exerts tremendous control over their elections. They decide if there will be debates and who gets to participate. They decide what order states will vote in and who gets on the ballot. Hell, we’re just coming off them getting a geriatric man that the majority of the party didn’t want running elected as the candidate. To pretend that the DNC doesn’t rig these contests towards their preferred outcome, you’d have to be either spectacularly ignorant or willfully obtuse.
“The DNC was treating the whole situation as though Clinton already won. That means that the elections were rigged.”
???
Do you really need someone to explain to you how allowing Clinton to decide who gets to be the Executive Director, Communications Director, Finance Director, etc., would give her an advantage? You seriously don’t understand how giving Clinton approval over the most senior leadership positions of the DNC would give her influence over the institution? Is that really what you’re saying?
I make of it what any sane person would - that Clinton’s control over the party was deeply damaging, shady, unethical, and unwise to allow, at minimum.
That doesn’t change the essential problem that we failed in 2016 because not enough voters were on our side
It’s funny how, whenever you talk about Bernie’s loss, there just weren’t enough voters, but whenever you talk about Harris’ loss, you can’t find enough people to blame. Three days ago you were calling Arab Americans, “fascist enablers,” for not being supportive enough of Harris. Why do you believe that grassroots campaigns have influence over the electorate, but not that a massive political institution has influence over its own primaries? It sounds like, when it comes to Harris’ campaign, you’re playing make-believe games about a small cabal of villains instead of addressing the actual problems.
I don’t think there’s anything left to say here. It is very clear that the DNC rigged the election in Clinton’s favor, and we even know what levers they pulled to do it. If you don’t understand it, then you don’t want to.
The DNC exerts tremendous control over their elections. They decide if there will be debates and who gets to participate. They decide what order states will vote in and who gets on the ballot.
Okay, so surely you can point to them excluding Bernie from the debates, or stacking the order of the states’ primaries against him, or excluding him from the ballot?
No? You’re just bringing these things up as red herrings of things that everyone would agree that would be rigging, had the DNC done it, and that the DNC has the power to do, but that the DNC didn’t actually do?
Do you really need someone to explain to you how allowing Clinton to decide who gets to be the Executive Director, Communications Director, Finance Director, etc., would give her an advantage? You seriously don’t understand how giving Clinton approval over the most senior leadership positions of the DNC would give her influence over the institution? Is that really what you’re saying?
Again, please, inform me how Clinton and the DNC playing incestous nepotism games with each other was what caused Bernie to fail to snatch the nomination against Clinton by almost 4 million votes.
“Are you saying Clinton didn’t have influence over the DNC???”, they ask, for the seventh time, after I’ve repeatedly and explicitly said that the DNC was deeply influenced by the Clinton campaign.
Poor reading comprehension, or bad-faith?
It’s funny how, whenever you talk about Bernie’s loss, there just weren’t enough voters, but whenever you talk about Harris’ loss, you can’t find enough people to blame.
… what the ever-loving fuck do you think voters are, if not people.
Three days ago you were calling Arab Americans, “fascist enablers,” for not being supportive enough of Harris.
What I actually said:
If you saw a literal fascist openly declaring fascist things, and your response to the milquetoast opposition is “Well, you’re not seperated enough, stylistically”, you’re not much more than a fascist enabler.
Please tell me more about how letting fascists win is not being a fascist enabler, or how this is blaming Arab-Americans as a demographic.
Why do you believe that grassroots campaigns have influence over the electorate, but not that a massive political institution has influence over its own primaries?
It’s funny how we jump between ‘rigged’ and ‘influenced’. Classic motte-and-bailey.
It sounds like, when it comes to Harris’ campaign, you’re playing make-believe games about a small cabal of villains instead of addressing the actual problems.
The problem is that most Americans are either fascists or don’t care if fascists get into power. Like, literally 2/3s of the vote, right there. That is the essential problem. The issue in both cases is the electorate, and pretending “Well, if the DNC had been more FAIR, then Bernie would’ve pulled another 4 million votes out of his ass” was the issue is dumb as shit.
I don’t think there’s anything left to say here. It is very clear that the DNC rigged the election in Clinton’s favor, and we even know what levers they pulled to do it. If you don’t understand it, then you don’t want to.
Ah yes, the classic “We all KNOW what they did” excuse, now that it’s apparent that “They linked their campaign funding and coordination with the Clinton campaign”, while scummy, is not actually the bloody hand on the scale you were hoping to imply it was.
Similar to how Netanyahu’s faction in Israel kept funding Hamas to justify their objectives on control of the state.
