The your last point the text specify that batteries can be safely removed and replaced using “basic and commonly available tools” and “without causing damage to the appliance or batteries.”
Yes, with basic and common tools. Doesn’t mean they have to be of quality, cheap metal screws for example. Hopefully not the case but it’d be annoying.
For example if they opt for the screw method, over the pop-off back (which I’d prefer). There will be screws to remove, most likely a gasket to replace, tape or something that ensures the battery doesn’t move around etc.
Even with current battery replacements, there is more parts then just the battery during the replacement. And of course “without causing damage” except if you have to remove the back that is glass and knock it off the table, that’s a +1 for apple, same if you loose a tiny screw or something else that is 1/1000 chance but Apple still makes money.
We already have regulations about spare parts availability and pricing for some devices (mainly household appliances) - and it is planned to slowly enforce regulation for other device types over time. They’ll watch the market, and if apple decides to be stupid that’ll come pretty quickly.
Just like with the appliances where some vendors had their shops ready way before regulation we already have some phone vendors prepare for that - like Nokia selling some spares via ifixit. So if apple decides to play stupid games it’ll be up against vendors that’ll be completely fine pushing regulation through quickly as hurting apple will only benefit them.
I had a washing machine where the price of the replacement motherboard (ludicrous this is this even a thing, btw) was triple the price of the entire washing machine.
Making parts available doesn’t make it realistic to repair stuff.
replacement motherboard (ludicrous this is this even a thing
A lot of energy and water savings in modern machines are due to the electronics used. Also, replacement of weight to keep the machine from wandering around during spin cycles with sensors and attempts to rebalance laundry, if necessary.
was triple the price of the entire washing machine.
The EU commission is aware of that, though for now hopes their ecodesign initiative for repairable products will be enough to push vendors in the right direction. Given that all of this is pretty new it’s quite impressive to see how some vendors are embracing it already - I first noticed it when replacing an ancient kitchen oven, and in the shop next to spare sheets I could get all electronic components used in that thing.
I imagine they’ll monitor the situation, and will have a chat with problematic companies based on that, or consumer protection complaints - like they did with the switch joycon drift thing, which I think was one of the first instances where eco design was referenced as reason for taking action.
Just like with the appliances where some vendors had their shops ready way before regulation we already have some phone vendors prepare for that - like Nokia selling some spares via ifixit. So if apple decides to play stupid games it’ll be up against vendors that’ll be completely fine pushing regulation through quickly as hurting apple will only benefit them.
You mean like Apple’s Self Service Repair, which has been available for a few years now?…
Back in 2014 you just bought a spare and replaced it, nowadays they all want to play the same bullshit games Apple innovated on. It was was about time an authority that ruled over a market with significant purchasing power made a decision against it.
Although I think it’s too expensive, this is why we need frame.work to make a phone too (or any company to do this). Great idea, good products, their markup just seems too high imo.
The neat thing about EU regulations is that they are iterated over constantly, so even if they don’t get it 100% right the first time, they’re able to nail things down in subsequent iterations. Look at how quickly they struck down any fantasies Apple had of still fucking people over with their own type c implementation fuckery. The direction the EU is taking is already doing plenty good for the entire world.
I don’t see how you decide what my beliefs or views are by a single message, interpreted by you. Pretty unfair to assume not to mention when I already stated “Not a bad idea”. But your message makes a great point, the glass is half full and they have more work to make it full.
Of course it’s a step in the right direction. However, it could be better if they included more than just requiring the battery to be removable before hand. As is we have to wait until 2027, and then further delays for adjustments to be made etc. Why not spend the time now to add to it to ensure an available market.
You made 4 points about things that may or may not happen. For some of them you made the worst assumption possible (eg: batteries may not be available to buy. As if China won’t go brrrrrr making them :P ). And that’s why I said that “I guess” that for you the glass is half empty (aka you’re focusing mainly on possible issues).
You might be right of course, but keep in mind that the main players (eg: Samsung, Apple) already sell some components to 3rd parties or are starting to do so. Even Apple, with all their control, don’t disable 3rd party batteries on their phones, they just show you a warning inside the settings menu. So, from a slightly different point of view, the glass is actually half full and you may not need additional rules. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if someone wants to piss off the EU and have more rules imposed on them.
Anyway, it was a quick reply to the top comment on this thread (when I opened it at least). I didn’t spend much time trying interpret your comment :P
To be honest, some may be to an extent but I’ve heard of issues. The last one, I don’t see how it can be address “add more parts needed, like seals, screws that strip too easily, that annoying sticky tape etc.”. Because they may take extra steps to ensure durability and integrity (mainly to just make more $$ from those doing it themselves.).
I also find it odd because for me at least in the US, it cost me less than $100 for a iPhone 13 Pro Max battery replacement after a little more than 1yr of use, primarily went out due to extreme cold weather. Is the problem more towards a lack of authorized repair locations or their pricing? I’m sincerely curious what is the root issue here.
Yes, and it would still not require “any kind of technical expertise.”. That doesn’t mean the battery replacement process couldn’t include replacing gaskets, screws, tape during the process to ensure a safe and functional device since it’s still being opened. They may even sell it as a kit?
There is still so much left vague or not even mentioned, I just wish it was better off the bat. Of course, as mentioned it’s a step in the right direction but there are holes that could be filled before people get screwed over.
Yeah, that’s possible. I’m more worried about a built in battery chip preventing users from sharing batteries, like once it’s installed, it’s activated and it’s locked to that device. Meaning you’d have to buy only from that manufacture and the price will be higher.
Not a bad idea but there are flaws and this also doesn’t seem to address the issue of pricing or availability.
The your last point the text specify that batteries can be safely removed and replaced using “basic and commonly available tools” and “without causing damage to the appliance or batteries.”
Yes, with basic and common tools. Doesn’t mean they have to be of quality, cheap metal screws for example. Hopefully not the case but it’d be annoying.
For example if they opt for the screw method, over the pop-off back (which I’d prefer). There will be screws to remove, most likely a gasket to replace, tape or something that ensures the battery doesn’t move around etc.
Even with current battery replacements, there is more parts then just the battery during the replacement. And of course “without causing damage” except if you have to remove the back that is glass and knock it off the table, that’s a +1 for apple, same if you loose a tiny screw or something else that is 1/1000 chance but Apple still makes money.
We already have regulations about spare parts availability and pricing for some devices (mainly household appliances) - and it is planned to slowly enforce regulation for other device types over time. They’ll watch the market, and if apple decides to be stupid that’ll come pretty quickly.
Just like with the appliances where some vendors had their shops ready way before regulation we already have some phone vendors prepare for that - like Nokia selling some spares via ifixit. So if apple decides to play stupid games it’ll be up against vendors that’ll be completely fine pushing regulation through quickly as hurting apple will only benefit them.
I had a washing machine where the price of the replacement motherboard (ludicrous this is this even a thing, btw) was triple the price of the entire washing machine.
Making parts available doesn’t make it realistic to repair stuff.
A lot of energy and water savings in modern machines are due to the electronics used. Also, replacement of weight to keep the machine from wandering around during spin cycles with sensors and attempts to rebalance laundry, if necessary.
The EU commission is aware of that, though for now hopes their ecodesign initiative for repairable products will be enough to push vendors in the right direction. Given that all of this is pretty new it’s quite impressive to see how some vendors are embracing it already - I first noticed it when replacing an ancient kitchen oven, and in the shop next to spare sheets I could get all electronic components used in that thing.
I imagine they’ll monitor the situation, and will have a chat with problematic companies based on that, or consumer protection complaints - like they did with the switch joycon drift thing, which I think was one of the first instances where eco design was referenced as reason for taking action.
Information like this gives hope for a better tomorrow.
You mean like Apple’s Self Service Repair, which has been available for a few years now?…
https://support.apple.com/self-service-repair
Sure, if you call 1.3 years a few years…
Here’s the press release dated 2022-04-27
This insufferable shit is exhausting
Back in 2014 you just bought a spare and replaced it, nowadays they all want to play the same bullshit games Apple innovated on. It was was about time an authority that ruled over a market with significant purchasing power made a decision against it.
Although I think it’s too expensive, this is why we need frame.work to make a phone too (or any company to do this). Great idea, good products, their markup just seems too high imo.
The neat thing about EU regulations is that they are iterated over constantly, so even if they don’t get it 100% right the first time, they’re able to nail things down in subsequent iterations. Look at how quickly they struck down any fantasies Apple had of still fucking people over with their own type c implementation fuckery. The direction the EU is taking is already doing plenty good for the entire world.
Is the glass half full or half empty? For you, I guess it’s half empty.
Rules can be updated and tightened if needed. This is a good step, another could be taken if they don’t play nice.
I don’t see how you decide what my beliefs or views are by a single message, interpreted by you. Pretty unfair to assume not to mention when I already stated “Not a bad idea”. But your message makes a great point, the glass is half full and they have more work to make it full.
Of course it’s a step in the right direction. However, it could be better if they included more than just requiring the battery to be removable before hand. As is we have to wait until 2027, and then further delays for adjustments to be made etc. Why not spend the time now to add to it to ensure an available market.
You made 4 points about things that may or may not happen. For some of them you made the worst assumption possible (eg: batteries may not be available to buy. As if China won’t go brrrrrr making them :P ). And that’s why I said that “I guess” that for you the glass is half empty (aka you’re focusing mainly on possible issues).
You might be right of course, but keep in mind that the main players (eg: Samsung, Apple) already sell some components to 3rd parties or are starting to do so. Even Apple, with all their control, don’t disable 3rd party batteries on their phones, they just show you a warning inside the settings menu. So, from a slightly different point of view, the glass is actually half full and you may not need additional rules. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if someone wants to piss off the EU and have more rules imposed on them.
Anyway, it was a quick reply to the top comment on this thread (when I opened it at least). I didn’t spend much time trying interpret your comment :P
If i remember right, all those shitholes are addressed?
To be honest, some may be to an extent but I’ve heard of issues. The last one, I don’t see how it can be address “add more parts needed, like seals, screws that strip too easily, that annoying sticky tape etc.”. Because they may take extra steps to ensure durability and integrity (mainly to just make more $$ from those doing it themselves.).
I also find it odd because for me at least in the US, it cost me less than $100 for a iPhone 13 Pro Max battery replacement after a little more than 1yr of use, primarily went out due to extreme cold weather. Is the problem more towards a lack of authorized repair locations or their pricing? I’m sincerely curious what is the root issue here.
You paid $100 for a battery replacement!?!? My Galaxy S7’s second battery cost us $12!
“it must be easy to replace a battery without any kind of technical expertise.”
Yes, and it would still not require “any kind of technical expertise.”. That doesn’t mean the battery replacement process couldn’t include replacing gaskets, screws, tape during the process to ensure a safe and functional device since it’s still being opened. They may even sell it as a kit?
There is still so much left vague or not even mentioned, I just wish it was better off the bat. Of course, as mentioned it’s a step in the right direction but there are holes that could be filled before people get screwed over.
They could start selling tiers of battery quality which TBH sounds awful if they make the best battery life duration paywalled.
Yeah, that’s possible. I’m more worried about a built in battery chip preventing users from sharing batteries, like once it’s installed, it’s activated and it’s locked to that device. Meaning you’d have to buy only from that manufacture and the price will be higher.
I’m hopeful that the EU would put a stop to this. They are pretty progressive on that front generally.
It needs to meet spec though.
Making them easily replaceable will create a market, a better one than we have today, almost any battery you can buy today as end-user are trash-tier.
Quality 3rd party batteries will rise up if the phone manufacturers fuck around.