He’s right about one thing: There is a serious lack of actual masculinity among our leaders.
Most public figures who try to present some form of “masculinity” are just desperate and petty, willing to sacrifice nothing to earn their status, and eager to degrade others to look better by comparison.
A real man produces more than he needs, but takes only that much and ensures the rest goes to those who are less able to sustain themselves. They protect the defenseless, elevate those who are ignored, and invest in a future they won’t personally live to enjoy.
Show me a real man among you. It’s not femininity keeping you from finding one. It’s your own greed and hubris.
This is why a positive kind of masculinity also needs to reject patriarchy and capitalism.
“Producing more than you take” doesn’t have to mean money. (Though I did mean money in my original comment, cuz Zuck is a greedy monster.)
Just listening to people more than you demand to be listened to. Doing chores that you know your friends and family hate. Sharing your knowledge. Cooking. Fixing things. There are so many ways you can contribute to your group that don’t take money, and don’t even take much time.
Being financially responsible and helping people when you can is important, don’t get me wrong.
But seeing your worth in purely financial terms is really limiting and unhealthy for the individual, and also tends to create perverse hierarchies inside of families.
Real men are also able to access their emotions, express their needs(both emotional and physical), develop and share empathy, and nurture deep relationships within their community.
Though i would argue none of what either of us said has to do with gender.
Relentlessly locking your own humanity away behind a strong man facade built on shame is one of the biggest reason these fuckers become so hateful and make “manliness” seem like such a putrid prospect.
When I was in the military, the best Marines weren’t the ones who could lift the most or run the fastest (though sometimes they did), they were the ones who stayed up late writing up their junior Marines for awards, the ones who skipped their own lunch to teach their squad or platoon how to perform better, and just generally the ones who went out of their own way to improve everyone else’s well-being around them, and all the while keeping their mouth shut up how much they were doing for everyone else.
The whole master-apprentice thing is not really found in America anymore. It is lowkey there in academia, but there is so much admin work that even good PIs struggle. I have not really seen it in my little private industry experience. And I have no public experience to comment.
It does exist in some trades still but that’s also becoming more rare. My father was a farmer and he was always willing to be a mentor to guys he knew who wanted to get into that industry and was willing to help out his neighbor farmers if they needed help. When he died about 10 years ago, all the local farmers came out to help and they helped my family harvest his last crop at no charge to us. Wish that was the way it was in other private sector industries.
Masculinity isn’t just for men. Just like femininity isn’t just for women. A healthy person has a mix of these qualities, along with many others that we don’t tend to align with a specific gender.
When I say “a real man”, I don’t mean it as an objective assessment to stick a person neatly into one of two piles. That’s not how gender works, and it’s not how being a person in general works.
What I mean is that if you’re indulging in behavior like belittling other people for fun or “cool points”, or using your power or physical strength to get what you want, and calling that “being a man”, then your idea of manhood is a mirage. If you want to aspire to something based on your male gender identity, aspire to humility, vigilance, and service to others. Those are great qualities that anyone can have, but they’re especially important for men if we’re gonna have a respectful and productive society.
(Edit: I didn’t downvote you btw. I thought your comment was pretty reasonable and mild. But I did wanna take the opportunity to elaborate, because this topic can be complex and emotionally charged. We all have a lot of baggage when it comes to gender, and it’s hard on the internet to develop rapport with each other.)
There is a serious lack actual masculinity among our leaders.
The problem is many people hear these words and instantly jump to toxic masculinity. Which you’re obviously not advocating for, but neither of us are “many people”.
He’s right about one thing: There is a serious lack of actual masculinity among our leaders.
Most public figures who try to present some form of “masculinity” are just desperate and petty, willing to sacrifice nothing to earn their status, and eager to degrade others to look better by comparison.
A real man produces more than he needs, but takes only that much and ensures the rest goes to those who are less able to sustain themselves. They protect the defenseless, elevate those who are ignored, and invest in a future they won’t personally live to enjoy.
Show me a real man among you. It’s not femininity keeping you from finding one. It’s your own greed and hubris.
A big part of the issue is men constantly being told that they are responsible for everything. So this attitude would only make the problem worse.
This is why a positive kind of masculinity also needs to reject patriarchy and capitalism.
“Producing more than you take” doesn’t have to mean money. (Though I did mean money in my original comment, cuz Zuck is a greedy monster.)
Just listening to people more than you demand to be listened to. Doing chores that you know your friends and family hate. Sharing your knowledge. Cooking. Fixing things. There are so many ways you can contribute to your group that don’t take money, and don’t even take much time.
Being financially responsible and helping people when you can is important, don’t get me wrong.
But seeing your worth in purely financial terms is really limiting and unhealthy for the individual, and also tends to create perverse hierarchies inside of families.
Real men are also able to access their emotions, express their needs(both emotional and physical), develop and share empathy, and nurture deep relationships within their community.
Though i would argue none of what either of us said has to do with gender.
Relentlessly locking your own humanity away behind a strong man facade built on shame is one of the biggest reason these fuckers become so hateful and make “manliness” seem like such a putrid prospect.
When I was in the military, the best Marines weren’t the ones who could lift the most or run the fastest (though sometimes they did), they were the ones who stayed up late writing up their junior Marines for awards, the ones who skipped their own lunch to teach their squad or platoon how to perform better, and just generally the ones who went out of their own way to improve everyone else’s well-being around them, and all the while keeping their mouth shut up how much they were doing for everyone else.
The whole master-apprentice thing is not really found in America anymore. It is lowkey there in academia, but there is so much admin work that even good PIs struggle. I have not really seen it in my little private industry experience. And I have no public experience to comment.
It does exist in some trades still but that’s also becoming more rare. My father was a farmer and he was always willing to be a mentor to guys he knew who wanted to get into that industry and was willing to help out his neighbor farmers if they needed help. When he died about 10 years ago, all the local farmers came out to help and they helped my family harvest his last crop at no charge to us. Wish that was the way it was in other private sector industries.
This comment makes me want to read “the way of kings” again…
Kaladin is a G. Currently on Oathbringer. I enjoy a good fantasy series, just hate when I run out of books.
there’s no such thing as a “real man”… it’s all just roles society has placed upon different genders….
And I’m an imaginary man producing just what I need. 👻
The answer is often more complex
The answer is clearly 42i
Either this comment is also misogynistic as all hell, or my mother was very masculine.
Masculinity isn’t just for men. Just like femininity isn’t just for women. A healthy person has a mix of these qualities, along with many others that we don’t tend to align with a specific gender.
When I say “a real man”, I don’t mean it as an objective assessment to stick a person neatly into one of two piles. That’s not how gender works, and it’s not how being a person in general works.
What I mean is that if you’re indulging in behavior like belittling other people for fun or “cool points”, or using your power or physical strength to get what you want, and calling that “being a man”, then your idea of manhood is a mirage. If you want to aspire to something based on your male gender identity, aspire to humility, vigilance, and service to others. Those are great qualities that anyone can have, but they’re especially important for men if we’re gonna have a respectful and productive society.
(Edit: I didn’t downvote you btw. I thought your comment was pretty reasonable and mild. But I did wanna take the opportunity to elaborate, because this topic can be complex and emotionally charged. We all have a lot of baggage when it comes to gender, and it’s hard on the internet to develop rapport with each other.)
It is still misogynistic to say that women who manifest those behaviors are particularly masculine. Those are adult human behaviors.
I don’t know a lot of adult humans who behave that way of either gender.
The problem is many people hear these words and instantly jump to toxic masculinity. Which you’re obviously not advocating for, but neither of us are “many people”.
Masculinity has been defined as toxic by default for many.
Yup. It is in most or at least many cases.
I wish I were able to achieve even 0.01% of this, I am just born unable.
It’s ok. It’s going to suck. Real men and women could provide for you. Not that you’re not a real woman/man, but in context.
Thanks, but sadly I think there are no real men/women near me.