• Telorand@reddthat.com
    53·
    2 months ago

    Man, your post has really brought out the CCP shills. It’s fascinating to watch people go, “Nuh-uh! China doesn’t do any of that!”

    • __nobodynowhere@startrek.websiteEnglish
      19·
      2 months ago

      I learned a dozen countries are all in on a conspiracy theory in which they pretended China had operated overseas police stations in their respective countries. Fake news!

  • GBU_28@lemm.eeEnglish
    30·
    2 months ago

    These threads are great because they are nice tankie block attractors. They can’t help themselves from commenting on their non tank-3 accounts.

  • redrum@lemmy.ml
    25·
    2 months ago

    YDI.

    The .ml policy against bigotry --including parroting western anti-chinese propaganda, that liberals throw ad nauseam there-- has been a consistent policy over time of that instance.

    • xor@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      37·
      2 months ago

      seeing that you’re from lemmy.ml, stfu….

      but, it’s not propaganda, it proven facts… there are photos and leaked surveillance videos, it’s very real.
      it’s not “bigotry”, which is such a laughable claim… i love chinese people and DON’T want them to suffer… it’s the absolute opposite of bigotry

      • redrum@lemmy.ml
        11·
        2 months ago

        I strongly disagree.

        But, by example, if l (a .ml and lemmyngrad user) go to a Ukrainian instance with a pro-western narrative to tell that they are backing and are backed by fascism, as other hundreds others had done before, I would deserve a ban.

        • catloaf@lemm.eeEnglish
          22·
          2 months ago

          You mean the US? The US isn’t fascist. We’ve still got about 48 hours before that.

          • Pili@lemmy.ml
            10·
            2 months ago

            I mean, during the past 4 years, you guys have been building a giant wall to keep brown people out, funded a genocide to maintain a white ethno state in the middle east, enacted economical sanctions to try to suffocate socialist movements around the world, overturned a law that granted access to abortions… I could continue, but I think that’s enough to consider the USA fascist already.

            • cm0002@lemmy.world
              16·
              2 months ago

              during the past 4 years, you guys have been building a giant wall to keep brown people out

              Not really, the infamous “wall” is, at most, a handful of sections

              funded a genocide to maintain a white ethno state in the middle east

              Fair, however, it will absolutely accelerate under Drump unlike Harris who would have at most kept the status quo as it has been for decades

              economical sanctions to try to suffocate socialist movements around the world,

              Sanctions against places like Russia, hardly a “socialist movement haven”

              overturned a law that granted access to abortions

              It was not a law, it was a supreme court ruling that was overturned. Had it been a law, it would in all likelihood be still in effect

            • Count042@lemmy.mlEnglish
              4·
              2 months ago

              Russian propaganda as reported by… Oh, the Washington Post?

              How ironic that the mod in yepowertripping mods is deleting absolutely true statements confirmed for years by trusted news sources that the mod doesn’t like.

              Problem is, extremists make good fighters. It’s a sad truth of war that there are never any moderate rebels.

              Here are the links to the truth you don’t like:

              https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/06/ukraine-military-right-wing-militias/

              https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukraine-turns-a-blind-eye-to-ultrarightist-militia/2017/02/12/dbf9ea3c-ecab-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html

              There are a whole bunch more for anyone that cares to look.

              The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

              EDIT: db0, you literally deleted a comment that is true, verifiable, verified by legitimate news sources, and an issue for your current view of the war.

              I can’t think of a better description of power tripping. Why should anyone trust you as a moderator of this community?

              • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
                3·
                2 months ago

                First of all, it wasn’t me. Second of all, this is out of topic for this comm and we routinelly remove off-topic comments. Stick to discussing whether it’s PTB or not, not geopolitics.

                I’m leaving the rest of this topic up for now, but it should end here.

                • Count042@lemmy.mlEnglish
                  1·
                  2 months ago

                  My apologies. I missed that Unruffled [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.com is a mod as well.

                  Actually reading over the modlog, and forgive me if I’m not doing it right, it appears that Unruffled was only appointed as a mod 7 hours ago. My comment was removed 2 days ago, and to my reading, that makes you the only mod.

                  Furthermore, the reason for the removed comment on the comment log was this:

                  reason: Russian propaganda talking points painting Ukraine as nazis.

                  Which is not stating that the comment was removed for politics. But rather that provably true facts, as reported by the Washington Post which I’ve included links to, are in fact nothing more than Russian Propaganda.

                  Which seems pretty questionable to me. If politics and out of topic comments are the rule, fine. Those are the rules, but this doesn’t seem like that. This seems like a mod, whomever it was, removing factual information that they didn’t like selectively. Which seems like the definition of powertripping.

                  P.S. To be clear, I didn’t downvote (not that it matters) your response. I do appreciate that you responded.

                  EDIT: FYI I’m using a browser that messes with the timezone for anti-tracking purposes. The gross time I included above may not be accurate, but the relative time between the two events should be.

              • Unruffled [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
                1·
                2 months ago

                FYI we have a matrix room for discussing mod actions here now which may be a better venue for this discussion: https://lemmyverse.link/lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/35953536

                I’m gonna talk plainly here. That comment was reported as misinformation by another user and I took action on it. I get that you qualified your remark, but it seemed to me the intent was still to paint the Ukraine war as being about Nazism vs Communism which is total tankie bullshit imo. It absolutely is a widely reported Russian propaganda talking point which I’ve posted a lot about previously on !fediverse_vs_disinfo@lemmy.dbzer0.com. I appreciate that you have a different take on this topic, but in our view this community is not the place to discuss geopolitics, as db0 mentioned.

                I also think there may be some cultural differences between our instances you don’t seem to understand. We don’t subscribe to the ML “critical support” ethos on this instance. Every authoritarian state can be freely criticized here, including the so-called socialist ones, and including western countries. If you are posting off topic in support of authoritarian actions on an Anarchist instance (i.e., Russia’s invasion of Ukraine) then you can (I think reasonably??) expect to be reported and for our admins/mods to take appropriate actions, as in this case where I simply removed this one comment.

                I also have a question about double standards here. The slightest criticism of China or Russia is routinely removed on your home instance and you seem to have no problem with that policy. Yet you seem to think that other instances moderating consistent with their own political ideology and instance rules is the very description of power tripping? It just doesn’t seem like you have thought this through tbh.

  • gmtom@lemmy.world
    20·
    2 months ago

    I recently got a ban on .ml for saying that the IS banning people from flying because they called in a bomb threat on an plane is not the same as China banning you from flying because you critisised the government.

  • ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    19·
    2 months ago

    Lol, I got a similar removal and ban (rule 1, 2*) the other day for replying to someone who mentioned credit ratings as a counterpoint to the attempts to discredit the existence of “social credits” (or whatever actual system exists in China, and it does exist, to keep tabs on their population):

    This right here.

    And the point is that an average American barely knows how those work, or exactly what information the government and or private financial and other companies collect about them (it’s a lot) or how much it impacts their daily lives (deeply), in the same way the average Chinese person barely knows just how much surveillance their government is doing on them (it’s a lot) or how much it impacts their daily lives (deeply).

    This post is such tankie bullshit.

    Pretending like only one government does (internal and external) propaganda, or only one government is oppressing and lying to its own people (not to mention people in other countries), or that the average person in any country know, or is willing to admit to themselves, never mind others, and especially never mind people from a country you’ve been propagandised against from birth, the flaws of their own government is not only laughable, and hypocritical, but also massively counterproductive.

    *as you can see, the ban is really for calling OP “tankie bullshit” and *gasp* pointing out that China is bad in the same ways America is bad. Such fragile egos lmfao

  • SoftTeeth@lemmy.world
    19·
    2 months ago

    I got banned there last week for saying that lemmy mods are just as pathetic and banhappy as reddit mods

    • xor@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      14·
      2 months ago

      in my experience, they’re a lot worse….
      stuff that would get a comment removed or a note from the mod to chill just gets you an instant permaban here…
      and they’ll ban you for the dumbest shit too… simply discussing china’s human rights abuses that are well documented and publicized is “racism against chinese people” or some dumb shit….
      luckily it’s just the hard hard leftists… the places that are all shills anyway (like he-x-b34r)
      (i just spelled that dumb so it’s harder to search).

      • SoftTeeth@lemmy.world
        14·
        2 months ago

        I’ve noticed mods of some instances will lurk and ban users for comments that weren’t even on their instance.

        Some of the mods on blahaj do that while using fake user accounts to sow approval.

        It’s insane what patheticly small amount of power internet janitors will manage to trip on

        • tfw_no_toiletpaper@lemmy.world
          5·
          2 months ago

          Don’t start with Bahaj, I remember a post some time ago where I saw lots of removed comments so out of curiosity I went through the modlog. People were being banned and comments removed for literally nothing (like, not a slur or x-phobia or anything, just a discussion about OPs topic), ban reasons for example were “you’re not the victim” lol. When I pointed it out in that thread, my comment got removed as well (but I graciously was allowed to not have my account banned). Of course you don’t want to have instagram-esque comments in Lemmy but power tripping mods still suck and the modlog is kinda useless if you cannot revoke decisions

      • ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.comEnglish
        8·
        2 months ago

        Spreading racist arguments doesn’t help either. Many of the above statements are proven CIA propaganda. Not all but many. I thought lemmy was supposed to have critical thinking? It’s sad to just attack.

        • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
          11·
          2 months ago

          “Proven CIA propaganda” proven… how? Where? Seriously, we’re all genuinely eager for any evidence that these horrifyingly evil crimes against humanity are just the CIA successfully waging a propaganda war instead of… you know, what they usually do. Fuck around incompetently, fail completely, then take credit for any shit that happens so people think they’re actually these great masterminds.

    • mkwt@lemmy.world
      7·
      2 months ago

      Rule 1 on .ml is “no racism.” In this post, it appears to be “racist” against Chinese. At least from some kind of a point of view.

      • Dasus@lemmy.world
        5·
        2 months ago

        They also use “racism” as an excuse if you say Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine.

        @Davel@lemmy.ml , lemmy.ml mod who larps an American but is a Russian fucking hates it

      • Amon@lemmy.world
        3·
        2 months ago

        No, it is against China, not Chinese people.

        “Chinese” is a heavily loaded term, containing nationality, ethnicity, culture and language. In this case it is criticising China the nation, not Chinese people in any sense.

        It is racist to link China the nation to Chinese people, because many people who are ethnically Chinese do not associate with China.

        I know I am about to be downvoted heavily by tankies but just remember that .ml are hypocrites.

  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
    14·
    2 months ago

    Wild to be so indoctrinated that you continue to believe the Uyghur genocide lies, even when the departments that made it up admit they made it up.

    This is why it’s so easy to mislead the American public. You want the lies.

      • redrum@lemmy.ml
        11·
        2 months ago

        Sorry, but who should prove that there is a ongoing genocide is who do that claim, requiring to prove the no existence of something is a fallacious argument.

        • Telorand@reddthat.com
          6·
          2 months ago

          This is unrelated to the topic, but that’s not how logic works. The burden of proof is upon the person(s) making the positive claim. So either you say,

          • “Yes, there is genocide” (positive claim)
          • “No, there is no genocide,” (positive claim)
          • “I don’t know/don’t believe you.” (neutral claim)

          So anyone in this post saying there isn’t genocide has a burden of proof to show why they believe it’s not occurring, because they are making a positive claim. It is not a logical fallacy to prove an opposing claim, and difficulty proving it doesn’t absolve anyone of that responsibility.

          Likewise, anyone saying there is genocide occurring should provide evidence for that claim. Typically, the person making the first positive claim has the initial responsibility.

        • cm0002@lemmy.world
          38·
          2 months ago

          LMAO did you even read your source‽ It’s right there in the summary

          But evidence that it is carrying out other forms of genocide abounds, Beth Van Schaack, a visiting professor at Stanford Law School’s Center for Human Rights and International Justice, wrote in a recent post on Just Security.

          “For example, the torture, rape and sexual violence committed against Uyghurs likely constitute genocide ‘by causing serious bodily and mental harm’—the second type of genocide recognized by the Convention,” she wrote. “Likewise, the deplorable living conditions of incarcerated Uyghurs may constitute genocide by ‘deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about [their] physical destruction’—the third form of genocide.”

          @xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com you should have read their source, it doesn’t even back them up in any way LMFAO

        • toomanypancakes@lemmy.worldEnglish
          25·
          2 months ago

          From your article:

          But evidence that it is carrying out other forms of genocide abounds, Beth Van Schaack, a visiting professor at Stanford Law School’s Center for Human Rights and International Justice, wrote in a recent post on Just Security.

          “For example, the torture, rape and sexual violence committed against Uyghurs likely constitute genocide ‘by causing serious bodily and mental harm’—the second type of genocide recognized by the Convention,” she wrote. “Likewise, the deplorable living conditions of incarcerated Uyghurs may constitute genocide by ‘deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about [their] physical destruction’—the third form of genocide.”

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
            5·
            2 months ago

            Yes, she’s trying to stretch their claims into persisting. Again, without evidence.

            I understand reading is challenging for you, but you’re gonna have to actually read the whole article to get the context.

            What’s actually happening is China is preventing the US from further radicalization of the Uyghurs to destabilize the region, and de-radicalizing those being rehabilitated. The US doesn’t like their terror cells being stopped.

            https://x.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1380170110736855041?mx=2

            • Unruffled [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
              28·
              2 months ago

              Yep, for sure. More western countries should adopt the Chinese approach of “cultural assimilation” by locking up all our Muslim immigrants in “re-education” camps to unlearn Islam. They wouldn’t get any criticism for that right?

                • Unruffled [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
                  28·
                  2 months ago

                  I agree with you, all authoritarian States suck ass, including the US. I post more critical stuff about the US than about any other country. Still that doesn’t give China a free pass. You can shove your “critical support” where the sun don’t shine if you are just simping for a different authoritarian State.

              • Count042@lemmy.mlEnglish
                5·
                2 months ago

                Wahabism isn’t native. It’s literally being imported by Saudi Arabia, and is actively trying to destroy Uighur culture.

                ‘Muslim’ is not a monoculture and it is ironic that someone worried about cultural genocide believes it is.

                • Unruffled [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
                  14·
                  2 months ago

                  Don’t straw man me. I was simply pointing out how insane this would be if any Western country employed the same ‘assimilation’ methods that China is doing. I mean, arguably the US is doing something similar with the way they exploit their prison populations (minus the re-education part). But that’s also shameful. Just because the US does shameful things too doesn’t mean that China’s shameful things don’t matter or shouldn’t be talked about. These types of reprehensible State actions should all be scrutinized and opposed.

        • xor@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
          21·
          2 months ago

          even when the departments that made it up admit they made it up.

          i mean a source that backs up the claims you made, sea lion

      • Pili@lemmy.ml
        10·
        2 months ago

        It’s funny how you racists never need any sources for the original claim lmao

        • xor@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
          32·
          2 months ago

          yeah, criticism of the PRC is not racism… it’s the opposite, i don’t want their human rights to be violatd… but nice try, agent

      • OmegaLemmy@discuss.online
        5·
        2 months ago

        Every genocide except the uyghur genocide has images attributed to it

        Self exercise, find me three images of an uyghur genocide taking place, I’m not asking just to be a smart ass but because I tried it myself and I got no result

  • Hegar@fedia.io
    10·
    2 months ago

    I don’t get how suicide nets is a knock on china. They’re making our phones.

    It’s our consumer demand and our company’s price points that are responsible for the conditions in the factories that make our phones.

    • Unruffled [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
      29·
      2 months ago

      So are you saying that in the glorious Chinese workers paradise they don’t set and enforce decent health and safety policies and regulate working conditions and wages for the benefit of their citizens? Paint me amazed!

      • ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        21·
        2 months ago

        the glorious Chinese workers paradise

        The scary thing is they genuinely believe this.

        I had responded to a tankie who claimed that China wasn’t an oligarchy by sarcastically asking if they thought the workers control the government, and like 5 different (or are they?) hexbears descended on me to tell me that yes, akshually, they do (and therefore must be the most self loathing workers on the planet, if those are the conditions they inflict on themselves, and curiously keep “electing” the same authoritarian, billionaire, dictator to be at the top of their classless, moneyless, stateless society). 🤦‍♀️

        E: on a side note since I’ve got you here and you’re an admin, I thought this instance was defederated from hex, and I have them on my personal blocked instance list, should I still be seeing their users?

        • Unruffled [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
          15·
          2 months ago

          You can still come across their users if they post in a community external to Hexbear, even if you have instance blocked them. Our instance actually isn’t defederated from Hexbear fyi. They mostly leave us in peace nowadays though, so unless you go looking for a fight on their instance, you’re unlikely to run into problems with them.

    • xor@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      23·
      2 months ago

      because the Chinese public isn’t supposed to know about it… plus people might demand more ethically produced phones if they were more aware.

    • GBU_28@lemm.eeEnglish
      13·
      2 months ago

      It’s their citizens / labor laws.

      Sure an American said “we want 12h shifts 6 days a week with absolutely minimal breaks” (or whatever the specifics are) (and that’s a a terrible request.)

      But the kicker is a Chinese labor official said “yup, sure thing”

    • araneae@beehaw.org
      9·
      2 months ago

      China decided to play ball with the slave economy because it makes scads of money. If they were interested in pushing fucking state communism and raising the quality of living perhaps this was the wrong move. I suppose the counterargument would be that letting the west export its manufacturing sector somewhere else would have been a missed opportunity, but perhaps (and I say this as an American) the better move ideologically would have been not to engage with manufactory colonialism for a quick buck. Now we have Foxcon. They might have aligned with communist or at least sympathetic governments around the world for the project of I dunno stonewalling western oligarchs and not participating in the capitalist economic system. Insane, radical, anti-Party thought I know, I’m sorry. Just thinking out loud here.