congress has been abnormally silent. just a fucking ghost town.
Democrats have announced that they’re going to make a statement at 3:45pm EST today or something. Our government is actively in the middle of a coup, and they’re “going to make a statement.”
I’m sure it’ll be some finger wagging, and that’s about it.
What do you want the Democrats to do?
Stage a coup of their own?
The Republicans won democratically and they’re doing what they said they would and the American population gave Trump his first popular vote win because of it.
The Republicans won democratically
Did they? Trump was bragging about Musk messing with the computers, which given Trump’s penchant for lying and Musk’s penchant for being terrible with technology, seems unlikely, but it should have still merited an investigation.
Also, the Dems rolled over in 2000 when the Supreme Court gave the election to Bush, so even if they found evidence of wrongdoing, I doubt they would do anything.
Do you have a concrete source or evidence other than the mouth of this ever changing talking head. Like real evidence? If not just stop, its embarrassing. I get that you don’t want to accept that people would be this stupid and vote for Trump again. But if you just deny reality based on some conspiracy you are not really different from republicans talking about a stolen election in 2020.
Its over, the MAGAs won this time. Lets face reality and accept it and deal with it. Denial gets us nowhere.
My point is is that the MAGAs would have won regardless of whether or not Trump cheated. The Dems are spineless when challenging the legality of an election. When the SC ended the recount early and gave it to Bush, Gore should have fought. When ballots were found in dumpsters, Kerry should have fought. Hell, I remember touch screen voting machines in 2008 having their grids miss calibrated in a way that gave votes to McCain, but never Obama. Obama had at least had a voter intimidation and fraud hotline setup in advance so it wouldn’t come down to a post election issue.
What I’m saying is is that if you want progress within legal means, you have to gut the DNC and get people with spines.
Stage a coup of their own?
Yes?! Why shouldnt they?
Because they’d be staging a coup against the democratically elected government.
Most americans want this.
Most americans want this.
I doubt this, since less than 25% of the total population actually voted for Trump.
And yes staging an actual coup might be a bad idea, but doing nothing or things that have no effect is an even worse idea imo
He got over 50% of the vote.
Which is less than 25% of the population. A little more than 2 out of 10 voted for him
Being elected didn’t give blanket permission to destroy the state itself.
Yeah it did. That was a clear mandate and most of the American left stood aside and let it happen
Oh, that’s not all they’ll do. There will also be some strongly worded letters.
Like I commented above, I’m a Canadian the American left telling democrats to eat shit this election and immediately expecting them to save you is delusional
I gave my heart and soul and money to the Democratic Party. All they gave us were losers and a fascist government. They still beg us for money- to do fuck all.
The trump voters and left voters who didn’t vote gave you a fascist. You can blame the democrats all you want and act like you’ve hurt them but you haven’t. They’re just gonna take a 4 year vacation and enjoy their money while they fuck off, just like the left voters told them to do
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I’m a leftist but I’m sick of hearing about Bernie sanders. Talk about a loser. Guy can’t even get the support of democrats and you think he was gonna win over an entire polarized nation? He would have gotten steamrolled by Trump to be honest. He’s got good ideas but is ultimately ineffectual.
And my biggest gripe with sanders are his supporters. How are you guys gonna demand that old white guys retire from politics and allow in the new blood, while asking for Bernisaurus to take office? It’s senseless.
Bernie is a great flag bearer but he sucks at winning
We all know what the objectively most ethically and morally righteous course of action would be right now.
We also know that if we DID that, the fascists will kill us, our entire families, anyone we associate with, and then use it as an excuse to murder even more innocent people who have never had anything to do with us.
The right is just ITCHING for a Reichstag Fire Moment which they can point at and say
“OPE, look at that TERRORISM happening right over there! You know what that means: Time to OFFICIALLY (not just casually!) suspend civil liberties and call in the private security shock troops and drone strikes to put down these VIOLENT ANTI-AMERICAN ENEMY COMBATANT DOMESTIC TERRORISTS!!! And for all their sympathizers, time to punch some tickets for the GITMO EXPRESS!”
I thought it would happen by mid-march but now i’m concerned it might happen even SOONER.
look. the law has failed. the law will not protect us. the law will actively attack us and label us as “criminals” for defending ourselves while turning a blind eye to our fascist aggressors. I don’t know what anyone else should do, but here’s what I’m doing:
- I have a small emergency fund saved up stashed in cash at a secure location.
- I have my identifying documents in order in case I get the ‘papers please’ treatment.
- I have survival supplies in my bug-out go-bag that i carry on my person everywhere i go
- I have data backups, peripherals, and all my digital devices that I can’t live without packed
- I’m HOPING I still have time to legally (for whatever that’s worth now) arm myself.
- I’m maintaining the outward appearance of a cis het white dude so I can navigate mostly unnoticed.
- I’m attempting to locate and join an underground railroad as a conductor to help targeted people evacuate via providing transportation, shelter, nutrition, paperwork assistance, communications advocacy, and possibly even the covering of some costs provided the entire financial system doesn’t collapse.
- Failing that I’m reaching out to friends across the country to set up a means to locate and offer aid to at-risk individuals directly.
- I’m also asking international friends about their countries’ immigration policies, to see if I can get in touch with advocates within other borders to streamline the process for people who want to escape this backwater shithole of a country.
Gods know I won’t be able to escape…
but the possibility that I might be able to help others,
and reminding myself that I can’t help anyone if i’m dead,
is the single biggest thing (among a fair few others) keeping me going.Ye, seeing a legit the Reichstag Fire moment would be terrifying. And the USA wasn’t above that shit even 50 years ago.
well, keep in mind, it doesn’t even have to be legitimate.
It can be extremely illegitimate >_>
in fact, I am kind of expecting it to be an illegitimate, manufactured, sensationalized false flag spectacle that exists solely to provide them with an excuse to accelerate.
unless those are the factors that define a “legitimate reichstag” x_x;
Liberals are sort of, fundamentally incapable of understanding that the republican voter is more than just like, some stereotypical idiot white southerner, or self-interested multi-millionaire, I think. They’re incapable of understanding that republican voters can often be some of the more marginalized in society. The disabled, and migrants, as we’ve seen. Dumb people, even, right, people with less education. Explicitly, explicitly this is the case, they bring it up all the time! As though that lack of education is some sort of moral failing, or thing to poke fun at. They don’t understand that conservatives will rightly point out that sort of mockery and call them cruel elitists. It takes this cruel and apathetic stance towards those groups, this unempathetic stance that has no interest in understanding how we got there, this incurious stance. It’s so overly moralized, to the point of incoherence. Well, that disabled person or migrant voted for trump, so, FAFO, they deserve to die, I guess. What am I to do? Well, looks like the palestinian voter in michigan decided not to vote, so, FAFO, guess their family is reserved to being buried under beachfront property. What am I to do?
It’s callous, it’s a self-callousing kind of reaction. It makes you number, and it makes you dumber. It’s cope, basically, I guess is what I’m saying. It’s a way to contend with a cruel reality by becoming crueler yourself.
It also has some intersection with two things. This assumption of free will, and thus a kind of innate moral character and disposition, a constant internal moral agency for all your actions, and so there’s obviously something it inherently shares there with liberalism philosophically, right.
It also, in the positive rhetoric, has an intersection with this sort of, political armchair jockeying, where everyone theorizes that rhetorical moves are being made by politicians for some theoretical person out there that isn’t them, but the fundamental character of the party is still agreeable, and okay. You can’t question the party’s positioning on Gaza. Even if you can cede that it’s immoral, explicitly, then it has to be done because it’s electorally advantageous. I don’t understand how they can’t see how this alienates a ton of people right off the bat, because it shows that you’re willing to do things which are actively morally detestable and still not win. It’s never the case for policy which itself is a positive end, like healthcare, that they are willing to violate legal and political norms in order to take action on that. Or even, say, violating political norms in order to stop a genocide. It’s only that they’re willing to keep up a genocide in order to win electorally, and then whatever follows is sort of what you’re just supposed to get as a reward for sitting through 200,000+ people dying.
So I dunno, that all just pisses me off. I wish people could argue about actual tangible policy, and then pursue that unabashed as an unqualified good, rather than being tricked into believing that their own sense of good, their own goals, are naive, and they need to settle for more exploitation as the cost of doing business. It’s both a cope that makes you callous and it’s a nihilism that grinds you down. An apathy, in the face of politics.
I also don’t understand why in the political realm we have all been so reduced to viewing things purely in terms of like, whatever is within our black and white moral compass. So team-based. No attempt at nuance, understanding, or empathy. It’s insane, I think social media has truly kind of rotted people’s brains, in that respect, by shaping the contexts in which these kinds of interactions happen, reducing the means of people’s expression into pre-approved categories, into little sequestered realities. We’re maybe cooked cause of that, I don’t know.
Thanks for your nuanced take. Upvoting before mods delete it
To respond on to why the pol landscape is like so, I understand politics is a mind killer. It’s basically war with words. And people love to take jabs at their enemies. Kinda like they also love chocolate cookies
But they forget that not everything that feels pleasurable is good for you or your body
That huge walll of text to try to say that those republicans are not all stupid. Have you met them? Do you have to work with them? Shop next to them? I call them the stupid 30% and they are stupid.
I live in the Midwest and I have not met a Republican that wasn’t a moron.
Sure there obviously are Republicans that aren’t morons. But they still voted with the MAGAts.
Republicans = moron or bigot
Either way you shouldn’t trust them.
Holy shit, what an Olympic somersault into fucking nothing. Missing the point would be a comically inaccurate way to describe both these responses LMAO 🤣
Actually, it’s only like this because people didn’t vote. Soap, ballot, jury, ammo: they say to use the boxes in this order…
Do you think that if more people voted they would have voted for Democrats?
I do. I think all the Trump people put in the work and showed up. The people who didn’t bother to show probably would have leaned toward making their own lives better instead of other people’s lives worse.
Have you spoken to anyone who didn’t vote and really listened to them?
Many times. Although they are often drunk so maybe it doesn’t count? Or maybe it’s unfiltered and true. The folks who didn’t vote really see all options as corrupt and want the end of this dumb story but they would pick the option that caused less pain if they were already in the booth.
I think in swing states, the turn out was greater than in 2020. Harris got more votes than Biden. But, obviously, Trump got more than Harris. People who sat out in 2020 came out for Trump. Following what you’ve shared, it’s because they saw Trump as the option that caused less pain.
All of this makes sense to me. I don’t know how the voters who sat out in 2024 would have otherwise come out for Harris.
Damn, this comment section is a good reminder that western “anarchists” are just embarrassed liberals.
You’re think everyone is commenting is an anarchist?
No, I think everyone commenting is a liberal.
It probably due to your incurable case of campism
Lol, your comment history is you attacking everyone to the left of Elizabeth Warren, but apparently not licking the boots of right wing neo liberals is “campism”
Are you just making up my history based on what you wish it was? No, you calling everyone who’s not a red fash, “liberal” is campism.
Nah, I’m reading it. And lol at someone who calls leftists “red fash” calling people who think the Democrats are liberal campist. Great “anarchist” com you’ve got here.
Nah, I’m reading it.
You clearly need glasses.
I didn’t call “people who think the Democrats are liberal” campist. I called someone who calls everyone “liberal” indiscriminately campist something which is reinforced by you claiming I support democrats and “criticize anyone left of Warren”.
Great “anarchist” com you’ve got here.
Another campist endlessly surprised that Anarchists don’t believe in the so-called “left unity” delusion…
Eastern too.
If more people voted, this would not happen right now :) but both sides the same and voting doesnt matter.
Acting as if fascists did not nearly successfully couped the last time they lost the election is so much denial.
The people that voted last time got a goverment that could not stop a convicted felon, certified rapist, enemy goverment asset and obvious fascist from running again. They would not have been able to stop a fast nor a slow coup.
You’re right.
Why slow down the coup when you can just give up and let them announce a concentration camp for undesirable immigrants without any pushback?
Step 1: should have voted to stop the coup Step 2: should have voted for a slow coup Step 3: should have voted for a less fascist coup
We recreate the structures we seek to dismantle…
Don’t @ me I voted but the Democratic playbook has been to cede ground and take only clout back my whole life.
Like corporations and consumers the fault isn’t with the voter when the system is stacked against them and the options are two evils with one the lesser.
No what I mean is that everyone who want to stop facism should stop relying on groups and organisations that have a record of being ineffective when it comes to opposing and stopping the fascists.
Check out !inperson@slrpnk.net, !antifa@lemmy.ml and other Lemmy communities to find out about ways to oppose fascism without relying on the DNC.
The US has been pretty good at opposing fascists in the past.
We need the media to stop pussyfooting around and call a spade a spade. They’re working so hard to appear impartial that they’ve decided that reporting objective reality shows a liberal bias.
But the people who stayed home because the democrats didn’t offer them a pony are noble and should be regarded with the utmost respect!
“Didn’t offer them a pony” doesn’t equate to “stop funding a genocide in Israel”. This level of callousness is exactly why people stayed home
If they thought genocide in Israel was bad, why did they make it worse and global?
If they cared about human rights, they’d be defending human rights. People who make matters worse out of spite are not the good guys. I wish they at least owned their awfulness instead of crying all over social media how people blame them for the things they actually did, when they themselves happily boasted about it just a month ago.
People didn’t abstain from spite, they abstained from a correct belief that the system doesn’t work for them, or they couldn’t vote against their conscience. Your own framing of lesser evilism and weighting voting more than other kinds of political activity inevitably creates the situation where people can’t just cast a vote strategically. You dismiss 3/4 of the picture in order to make a point based on only 1/4 of the information, in other words, you are distorting the truth to fit your narrative.
Politics often comes down to a struggle between two views, but your attempt to shunt anyone who didn’t vote the way you did into some enemy category is, predictably, no strategy at all. Unless your strategy is to divide the electorate, which sort of defeats your entire premise.
Actually try to understand other people as having minds and wills of their own, rather than narcissistically making your own view the objective one (like a religion might) and then condemning others (like a religion might) for their sins.
Their not voting created this situation in the first place. They wanted this situation. People who are hurt by this situation are rather justified in hating the people who put them into it. You say it’s because these people choose to do this on their own, because of their own free will. I agree with you on this. But THEIR justification in creating this situation does not fucking matter to others. It does not matter if somebody stabs you in the back because they hate you or because they are trying to make a point or out of boredom or out of some philosophical whatnot, what matters to you is that you have a knife sticking out of your back and bleeding to death. And when you turn around, what you see is your attacker crying a river about their right to stab you and why are you blaming them? It’s not like THEY hate you like THOSE other guys!
Fact is that if they voted for the other side, they would have a perfectly stable democracy (lol, not really) where they could then campaign for stuff they want without the world being on fire around them. Which btw, they aren’t doing with the word being on fire around them either, but if they did it now, they’d be wiped off it by the powers they put into place.
Your “leaders” created this situation in the first place by refusing to even acknowledge the concerns of those voters, much less address them.
It would be far more reasonable for a handful of Democrat Party leaders to move their position in a handful of subjects to address grave moral concerns of millions of their natural voters than for them to expect than they could get the votes of all the millions for whom those things were important without conceding an inch on those subjects.
Want to see who gave the election to Trump on a platter: look inside the Democrat Party.
You are entitled to hate whoever you like, but hate doesn’t make you right. In fact it might be altering your judgement just a little.
I think its a little dishonest to collapse everything down to this one moment, that decides the moral standing of a person, whether they are for or against the movement to defeat trump and the criminal right wing. Its important to take into considerations what came before, at least, not to mention that the country is a big diverse place largely controlled by private interests. If you aren’t out here trying to educate people and wanna sit on the sidelines and judge others I won’t stop you, but IMO you really have very little right to judge when the time comes.
It’s not dishonest. This election was a vote between the status quo and outright fascism. If you didn’t vote against fascism, you supported it.
There’s no nuance here. Your reasons don’t matter. If you didn’t vote against the guy who straight up said he would be a dictator, you’re culpable for the situation we’re in now.
You people treat this like it’s some zero sum game. The democrats did screw the pooch, but so did the people who didn’t vote to stop fascism. Both can be true.
You dismiss 3/4 of the picture in order to make a point based on only 1/4 of the information
That’s exactly what you’re doing. Ignoring how much worse the situation is if you abstain from voting because you’re focused on the lesser evil. Even on Gaza Trump said he wants to “clean it all out”. Even on this issue the greater evil is worse. Stop pretending there was anything noble about letting that monster have power again. The system doesn’t work so they let an even worse one take over and people who abstained or protest voted bear some of that responsibility for the consequences
I don’t frame questions in terms of lesser/greater evil. I actually don’t need religious concepts at all to understand this situation, all I have to do is listen to people and remember what came before.
You’re so divorced from reality that there are no actual people who you are condemning, you’re just mad at some strawman constructed by the party that humiliated itself, for it was the democrats failures that lost. You’re buying into a ridiculous narrative that deflects all crit away from the democrats and puts it in some strawmen. It’s like conservatives with their woke washing of all politics, or bad faith liberals and “tankie”.
And to be clear, I don’t agree with people who abstained to vote, I did not abstain to vote. and I didn’t encourage anyone to abstain. I am very politically active and fundamentally agree with your logic. However…
What I despise is the scapegoating and strawmanning that is just endlessly regurgitated on this site.
I actually don’t need religious concepts at all to understand this situation
You think good and evil are religious concepts? That’s a new one. And I’m the one divorced from reality lol. People who abstained choose to do nothing about the rise of fascism. I do not blame them as much as someone actively supporting it but they absolutely share the blame for doing nothing to stop it and it’s absurd to give them a pass as we suffer the consequences of their decision
Hitler was appointed as the lesser evil according to the liberal government that appointed him.
Lesser evilism is the most evil option in all scenarios.
And Trump is the lesser evil according to maga. Your point is we should just do the opposite of what liberals think? That’s the entire philosophy of Republicans so that adds up
Greater evilism is as dumb as it sounds
So far, Gaza is infinitely better than it was previously. Colleagues are seeing less people at a clinic in the south, with a lot of displaced people returning north. They even returned to checkout an office up north and assess the damage. Sure, it’s not fine / okay, they are returning to rubble, no schools and no hospitals, but the ceasefire is holding for now.
https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-netanyahu-set-pivotal-talks-middle-east-agenda-2025-02-04/ ooooooffffff your comment did not age well
But you haven’t thought of how clean their hands are.
