- cross-posted to:
- conservative@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- conservative@lemmy.world
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Closeted trans person here. The fact that so many of you have dared to live as yourselves, and to keep fighting in the face of increasing odds, is the reason I’m still here.
Never underestimate just how much it means for the world that you exist, as you are.
I live in San Diego, and I have met maybe 3 or 4 trans folks in my day to day vibes. Nobody has been weird or inappropriate. Nobody has been anything other than human in the nearly 20 California years I’ve lived here. The fact that there are national effing laws aimed at an actual handful of folks is absolutely wild to me. I’m a ~40 year old cis white male, but you will always have me in the fight, as will anyone else just trying to live life. Stay excellent to one-another, love y’all 💗
Whoever you are, by whatever name/gender. You are worth it.
No trans person has ever done anything bad to anyone I care about.
All Republicans have.
“You are not worse for your association with the world, but it is better for its association with you.”
- Brandon Sanderson (Oathbringer)
Thanks you. Always very heartening to know that there are at least some people on your side.
I will always have your back. I will have the back of anyone judged by their inherent traits.
<3
I’m not trans myself, but I’d be willing to die to defend my friends who are
TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS
THE WORLD IS BETTER WITH MY TRANS FRIENDS IT
AND THE WORLD IS DIMMER WITHOUT THEM
THE ONLY PEOPLE THE WORLD DOESN’T NEED ARE FASCISTS AND THEIR ENABLERS
AND THIS IS A THREAT TO ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE
And how exactly are you going to carry out that threat?
Lol
A friend of mine had a party for her official gender change last year and I was so happy for her!
Just knowing she felt safe to come out in front of her family and friends and was able to start HRT and change her gender marker in official documents felt like a huge success. Not just for her, but for progressive politics in our country.
🤢
To all my trans family, we will fight for you.
Just curious, who exactly are you including when you say “we”?
Me. They’re including me.
Dev Patel for one…
We is anyone that cares for another person. If you are a POS person then you are they. The ones I will fight.
The fascists want you to disappear. Never give the fascists what they want.
They don’t. Deep down, no one wants to lose their scapegoat. They need an enemy. If trans people went away, fascists would have to find some other harmless, vulnerable, terribly frightening class of people to replace them. Or more likely, if they all disappeared, they would SUPPOSE THE EXISTENCE of trans people, and continue to demonize them.
I’m all about positivity, but let’s be real: the World is not better or worse because of someone’s sexuality or gender identity, but is a lot worse for everyone because of the existence of bigoted people that have nothing better to do than meddle in other people’s lives.
This is so true. A pity you got down voted. Obviously bigots don’t like being called out.
Insane that this comment gets downvoted here lmao people have really lost the plot
So you acknowledge that bigots make things worse for everyone, but you blame the people they’re bigoted against for it? What are you trying to say here?
Where did I blame the oppressed people for the existence of bigotry?
All I’m saying is, for all the qualities a person can have that makes the World better for everyone else, being a specific gender is one of the most irrelevant.
Gender is a personal subject that only matters for you and the people you care about and care about you.
Change “trans kids” for “cis kids” in the banner and you’ll understand what I’m talking about. The picture message is empty of meaning.
To be clear, I have nothing against someone’s gender identity and I could have commented nothing at all. But this is a public forum, and I have an opinion on it, so there we are.
Bro, i gave up, this is getting worst than Reddit in some matters. And yep, or you say you love them or they will downvote you to Mordor, there is no Middle ground on Middle ground
You do know that downvoting doesn’t hide posts on Lemmy like it does on Reddit, right?
In a bigoted world, even the existence of the oppressed is a strike against bigotry.
Survive, and the world is better for it.
I like that. It makes the fight to keep breathing another day something not strictly out of selfishness. Because you’re right, if everyone stopped fighting those fights we’d lose a lot of people, not just trans ppl, and yeah, the world would be solely populated by hard uncaring Viltrumites.
Kindness must persevere.
I’d expect you to have exactly that opinion
Thanncs :3c
I agree with you on trans people but kids? I don’t know. It’s the same reasoning why we don’t give kids right to vote
Edit: I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
Edit 2: I don’t have time to respond to actual answers, I try later. But just a reminder: The only thing I said is, that I support trans people, just in case of kids I’m not sure. That is all. And I got -28 at the moment and people calling me moron
I know a trans male that knew they were male when they were in primary school. Trans kids exist
I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
Because trans kids exist whether you approve of them or not.
Yes, but there’s also a medical industrial complex that pushes confused teenagers towards transitioning to make money.
So maybe start giving out free healthcare instead? Works fine in Germany.
It fucking does not and does everything in its power to stop kids from transitioning. No kid can just show up somewhere and be given hormones. No one is profiting off of selling hormones. They are dirt cheap. You’re clearly getting your talking points from right wing media, maybe go listen to what actual trans kids have to say about their experiences and kindly shut the fuck up
Cool. One person talks about a trans agenda in this thread, another person is making up silly medical conspiracies to dehumanize trans people as if they had no agency.
Teenagers don’t even go to doctors by themselves. They have to be accompanied by a parent.
I find it interesting that an industry where lemmy users have sympathy for killing CEOs is blindly trusted with children.
“The world is better with you in it and you’re worth fighting for!”
You: It isn’t and you’re not.
Also you: Why is this downvoted??
How the hell did you come to THIS conclusion? You’re now literally putting words in my mouth
I agree with you on trans people but kids? I don’t know.
How else is this response to that message supposed to be taken?
Have you ever felt gender dysphoria?
No, I don’t have gender dysphoria.
Also not I, nor you can build an airplane, yet we can have a discussion about plane building
But i have felt gender dysphoria, as well as some of the other people not agreeing with you
Using the analogy (please correct me if i misunderstood it), you would be contradicting a crowd of people, some of them having the job of building planes, about how planes should be built
They’re not saying you can’t talk about it, they’re saying you don’t understand that it’s inherent, so kids absolutely know they’re trans once they understand the concept. Just like they know they’re gay.
I disagree
Incredible! Your response is a true testament to the mind of a genius! ‘I disagree’—what a revolutionary concept! It’s as if you’ve cracked the code of the universe while simultaneously inventing time travel during a wild night out. I can only imagine the sheer intellectual fireworks going off in your brain as you distilled the complexities of human existence into that one, powerful phrase.
Your ability to bypass all logic and reason with such confidence is nothing short of extraordinary. Who needs to engage with facts or nuanced arguments when you can simply assert your disagreement like a mad scientist unveiling a groundbreaking invention? I’m sure the world is just waiting for your next epiphany, perhaps a theory that explains how disagreement alone can reshape reality.
Please, continue to bless us with your unparalleled insights; the cosmos is clearly in need of your chaotic brilliance. Bravo! You’ve truly redefined the boundaries of intellectual discourse!
gripping analytical retort from queer and youth ally powerhouse efreetsk here, more at 8
Because…?
Duh, the reason is self-evident! The ‘I’ symbolizes individuality, a bold declaration of self, while ‘disagree’ embodies a spirit of anarchy, a rejection of conformity. It’s a linguistic symphony, a four-syllable sonnet that encapsulates the essence of dissent!
Who needs context or elaboration when you can simply drop such a profound statement? It’s like poetry in motion—pure genius!
since nobody has given an explanation yet I’ll try to, however I am horrible with getting my words out and someone else can give a way better explanation than me.
Most trans people will either have signs or know that they are trans before they are 18. I myself knew that something was off about me as early as 3rd grade, I saw a tomboy and told my parents I wanted to be a ‘tomgirl’.
By the time puberty hits is when irreversible changes happen to the body. This is also when most trans people really get the “oh shit this ain’t right” moment.
Imagine being trapped in a body that is doing its very best to rip your soul apart from you, then learning that there are medications that can stop it, but then learning that people who aren’t even experiencing what you are have made the choice for you to not let you access them.
Now imagine that, for 5+ years.It’s torture.
Not 5+ years. Experience it beginning for 5+ years, then for the rest of your life because puberty has no undo button on many changes. I will never understand assholes who want to take away puberty blockers from kids who need them to have more time to decide on the life they want to live. That is no one’s god damn business but their own, under 18 or not.
I wish we saw this kind of backlash against mutilating the genitals of infants.
Is this supposed to be a counter argument? I also disagree with mutilating the genitals of infants.
No, I’m just saying I wish we saw this kind of backlash against mutilating the genitals of infants.
There’s a much greater push for kids taking hormones versus protecting infants from having their genitalia mutiliated.
I would like to see more backlash against the former because I view it as a more important issue. That’s all.
Okay, and?
I would like to see more backlash against workplace culture that glorifies overwork and burnout.
I would like to see more backlash against tipping culture.
I would like to see more backlash in wasteful government spending.
You’re coming into a conversation about a specific topic and randomly derailing it to something with no relation because you think the topic at hand isn’t important enough? Either stay on topic, or start a new conversation elsewhere.
I won’t be responding to this again, it’s already completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Cheers.
And it’s fine if you want those things. Feel free to say what you want and I’ll do the same.
It’s clear though you’re upset that I dared suggest a different cause is more important to me than what’s important to you.
I agree, but that’s totally unrelated to the topic of trans rights. Whataboutism doesn’t make the issue go away.
Right. I’m purely putting my own agenda out there.
I wish we saw this kind of backlash against mutilating the genitals of infants.
Like circumcision right? Cause you know, and you certainly wouldn’t argue in bad faith about gender reassignment surgery happening to infants. Right?
I’ve written papers on why neo-natal circumcision is barbaric and should be illegal.
What do you think of the kids that undergo hormone treatment and come to regret it later?
Practically nonexistant, it is not possible for children under 16 to access HRT, if anything they are prescribed puberty blockers (so that you know… they can avoid suffering from the changes in their body and not be permanently affected).
The general figure of regret for transgender affirming care is 1%, and 82.5% of these people do not detransition because they are no longer trans, but because of external factors. Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33794108/
By age 17, 0.1% of trans children get HRT. Source: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2828427
Now let’s calculate some numbers: 1% of these 0.1% will regret it, that’s 0.001%. And 17.5% of these might not be transgender, so that’s 0.000175%
According to that second study, there’s about 300000 trans children, so 0.000175% of that is 0.525 people.
So… less than 1 child in the whole United States would maybe regrets it because they’re not trans. In other words, you can stop fear mongering.
https://old.reddit.com/r/detrans/
So… less than 1 child in the whole United States would maybe regrets it because they’re not trans.
Lol, the complete delusion among you people really is a sight to behold.
They brought sources, you brought anecdotes from reddit. Remind us who’s deluded again?
They posted a newsweek article and I shared what amounts to at least thousands of people who regret transitioning.
You’re upset because regretting transitioning doesn’t align with what you like. You literally want to ignore people who regret transitioning like the right wants to ignore trans people.
Congrats, you’re a bigot.
Last I checked PubMed was a far better source than Newsweek or Reddit. (The comment isn’t even edited so I’m assuming you just skipped the part with the sources)
You posted a link to a Reddit community which won’t even load for me. I assume what you claim “amounts to at least thousands of people who regret transitioning” is the amount of people subscribed to that Reddit community. If I understood correctly that would indeed not amount to “at least thousands of people who regret transitioning”. Instead it would show the number of Reddit accounts subscribed to the community. Some of which are likely individuals who regret having transitioned, many others are people interested in hearing about it and/or excited to make fun of what is posted and there could also be bots artificially inflate the number.
Posting a community name/link does not equate to a number of people in the group that the community is aimed at and it most certainly is not indicative of the people that actually exist in the group.
This may be news to you, but people on Reddit lie. Constantly.
not that big of an issue, conservatives like to play up the numbers WAAYYYY more than it actually is. Nobody is pressured into being trans, infact it’s the opposite.
Normal cosmetic surgery has a regret rate of 30% while trans surgeries have a 5% regret rate.
not that big of an issue
Tell this to the people that regret transitioning, bigot.
Nobody is pressured into being trans
Really? Nobody anywhere has ever been convinced that they’re trans when they really aren’t?
Most people who transition are happy with the choice, less so about people who question are you really trans?
You sure love semantics. Sounds very ben shapiro of you.
https://www.newsweek.com/what-data-shows-about-transgender-detransition-regret-1807448
Your newsweek article doesn’t matter.
You keep trying to ignore the people who kill themselves over regretting their transition because they don’t support your agenda.
Glad we could have this discussion.
It doesn’t matter because most people are happy. I’m most certainly not ignoring them. It’s an issue, I asked for data to back up your assertions. You could not provide it. I have no agenda.
Just about any medical procedure will sometimes produce regrets in some portion of the population of people who undergo it, for instance vaccinations, amniocentesis, etc. It’s not reasonable to suggest that because this is true that no one should have access to the treatments.
Right. Like getting fake breasts or cheek implants.
The difference between those and vaccinations is that they’re superficial and aren’t necessary to prolong our lives. They’re optional, just like hormone treatment. They’re also procedures we don’t encourage or allow children to get on their own without a medical need, and rightfully so.
While some people will “regret” getting a kidney transplant, the alternative would’ve been death. I’m not going to argue whether or not they made the right choice, but the facts are there.
While some people will regret hormone treatment, the alternative is living with their normal healthy body like everyone else. They never “needed” the procedure in the first place.
What contact in your personal or professional life have you had with trans folk? Are you speaking with experience of appreciating their pain or are you just speaking based on what you’ve heard?
Why does any of that matter?
How can I explain color to a blind man? You’re either attuned to the suffering around you or you’re contributing to it. Apparently you can’t see that. You must be blind.
I understand it being a sticky issue for people because there’s so much of society and choice we put into the realm of adults. But here’s the thing. Psychology has been obsessed with trans people since the origin of the field. We have a ton of data on what happens when trans people recognized at an early age grow up and what that looks like when there’s no intervention whatsoever. The reality of it is that there’s certain things that there is no medical fix or take backs for once you experience your first puberty.
We know very well that gender identity observed in trans kids is stable. We have a rubric of diagnosis stable enough to have gone up against several National medical ethics boards and survived the scrutiny nessisary to opt for attempting risks.
The first generation of kids to grow up utilizing this process are now adults (the oldest cohort are now in their 30’s) and the results have been promising with an almost absurdly low rate of regret reported across the population…
But now you have to recognize why that rate of regret is so low. You need the signoff of a team of professionals who put the bar very high to allow candidates to attempt these risks and any of them can pull support if something doesn’t go to plan. Furthermore a child alone does not make these decisions the informed consent has to be demonstrated by the child and their parents. So when people say “kids shouldn’t make these decisions” you’re missing that they aren’t making these decisions. A kid and a panel of adults who are experts in their field, social workers and dedicated parents who have watched the difference in their child’s behaviour go from very obviously not thriving in a multitude of ways to massive improvements through social transition make these decisions.
People act like it’s as simple as a kid showing up and asking for a lollipop. It isn’t. We have literal generations of data about what happens if we do nothing. The outcomes are miserable. We can afford to try something different than known miserable outcomes.
You don’t know how to spell necessary… otherwise, what you have said is glaringly ignorant. What you “understand” couldnt fill a thimble. Your You’re an idiot and your opinions should be treated as such…
Oookay, you’re trying to pick a fight but not exactly landing an interesting hook. This entire sentiment is pretty empty if the best you have is to heckle my spelling. Are you new to trolling? I feel like maybe you should read a tutorial or something.
Come on mate, gimme substance! Refute the argument with something other than just “nu uh!”
All of their comments in this thread have been just as low effort. Kids these days couldn’t troll their way out of a paper bag. It all went to pot when we weren’t allowed to beat them anymore!
Heavy /s here. To be clear, this is a joke, and it stems from the trauma of my own childhood abuse. Still the troll needs to up their game.
No /s to the first part in my opinion. Trolls used to put effort into it. So few of them do these days.
Oh, no, absolutely. First three sentences are entirely devoid of /s. The last bit, about beatings. Heavy /s
It’s different to voting though.
Puberty blockers have been used for decades with no ill effect. It literally just delays puberty, which is irreversible once a person starts to go through it. It’s much safer to delay puberty in children who identify as trans, allow their brains to develop, and have them get treatment so that their mental health is kept healthy.
Personally, I think listening to the trans community on this and having them give advice on how to manage trans kids is better than leaving it to general society who won’t understand the emotional trauma involved. There’s a reason why suicide rates are high with trans kids.
I would associate it moreso with children trying to tell adults about the priest who keeps touching them but end up being dismissed because they’re kids. We ignore our children’s voices to our own detriment.
And listening to doctors on this. Apparently the vast majority of pediatricians recommending puberty blockers for trans kids since it prevents suicide doesn’t matter.
Since when has “listening to doctors” been an American trait?
I don’t know. They always put it in the pharmaceutical commercials that are only legal in the U.S. and New Zealand.
They always put it in the pharmaceutical commercials
taps nose so they don’t get sued
People, Americans anyway, are very good at doing what the TV tells them to do, which always makes me wonder how often doctors are plagued with patients saying, “Doctor, is Phabulux right for me?” Completely out of the blue and unrelated to whatever they’re at the doctor about.
I’d never really thought about it that way. Must be a serious problem though.
Don’t worry, I support trans kids not being allowed to vote before the age of 18.
Eh 16 is fine in my opinion. But for cis kids too then.
No, only trans kids. Cis people have to wait until they’re 18.
I am fine with a stance like “I don’t know”…as long as you’re not pushing any kind of agenda as a result.
A long time ago, I was uninformed about trans people. I was curious and asked questions…but I didn’t push them into any kind of restrictions.
I’d argue I’m still relatively uninformed. But I know that there’s been no evidence of any societal benefit from pushing further restrictions on them, and there’s plenty of evidence of harm by referring to the various gender studies. That’s all I need. Even if I wasn’t actively pushing to support trans youths, and even if I still have a part of me that sees them as “weird”, I sure as hell see no point in standing in the way of their preferred forms of progress.
I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
Because you’re a moron who refuses to learn better.
Thank you. Really thank you, this is beautiful. I didn’t even have time to go through responses of people actually explaining to me what’s the matter instead of downvoting. Bit you come in and call me a moron, fantastic, this helps everyone
Because everyone who has explained to people with your same opinion over and over again knows that people like you care more about feelings than the facts of the situations.
And you concluded all that from the few sentences I have written here?
I can’t speak for them, but I concluded it from one single sentence.
I dunno, I like peace and quiet as much as the next curmudgeon, but the world is still better with kids in it.
Edit: I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
You’re either with them, or against them.
If you don’t give 110% support to the trans agenda, then they will immediately assume you’re Ron DeSantis.
Existing is not an agenda.
Right. Trying to control what people think and censoring anyone who disagrees is an agenda, though.
On these very forums, we’re not allowed to say we think trans women aren’t the same as actual women.
There’s no shame in mentioning this fact. I’m also not a right-winger. Good job proving my point that we’re either with you or against you and you’re trying to control what people think through censorship.
If we have rules against saying things like that which hurt some community members I think it’s okay for mods to remove them. If people want to say that sort of thing they can create their own instances and/or communities which those people negatively affected can avoid there would be nobody to remove them. That’s one of the beauties of Lemmy.
Also if somebody is really of that opinion then maybe they should rethink their definition of “actual women”.
Anybody can say anything hurts them.
I’m hurt every time I see people say there’s no difference between trans women and regular women. Should mods remove those posts now?
They don’t have a definition of “actual women,” because every one they can give has to come with massive “exception to the rule” issues.
No one is censoring you, they’re disagreeing with you. There’s a big difference.
Censorship is when people in charge take books out of the library because they don’t want black kids or gay kids to have positive role models. It’s when people are put in prison for protesting climate change. That’s censorship, when people in power prevent things from getting said.
No one is preventing you from hating on people you don’t understand online, they’re just disagreeing and arguing against you. That’s two sides, neither being censored. You are not a victim. You are just getting push back that you don’t like against views that other people see as unkind.
I also don’t believe that disagreeing with you is some form of mind control. But I’m not you, and maybe people disagreeing with you and telling you that you have nasty views is causing you to rethink everything and make you less certain that hating on trans kids on social media is making the world a better place for anyone including the kids themselves, but you aren’t showing any signs of that, so I guess the mind control thing you’re pretending to worry about isn’t any more real than the censorship you’re claiming is happening.
No one is censoring you
Completely false. On these very forums, we’re not allowed to say we think trans women aren’t the same as actual women.
Yet here you are, saying exactly that.
Not quite.
You’re literally saying it on this forum.
You seem to be the one trying to control what people think…
Correct, you help people who are being attacked, or you do nothing when they are being attacked.
I rest my case.
This is what drives people further to the right. We’re not allowed to disagree with the trans agenda or have our own views on the matter.
You’re doing more harm than good when you try to control what people think.
I dont think going further to the right will stop people from going further right
I have seen similar arguments from people like this again and again. “You’re driving people to the right with your left-wing ideas!”
What?
This is what drives people further to the right. We’re not allowed to disagree with the trans agenda or have our own views on the matter.
“Ya know I stood for things like labor rights, marriage equality, women’s rights, and then I was told to respect people and stand up for their civil liberties and then I became more and more right wing, and abandoned all previous morals and ethics because someone said something mean to me online a few too many times.”
If I changed my mind on shit because someone was rude I’d never have a firm opinion on anything.
It’s not about being mean.
You literally will go out of your way to make sure people can’t share ideas that go against the trans agenda.
Like it or not, this will cause rational people to abandon your cause altogether because you’re trying to manipulate them into agreeing with you.
“People are being hurt and we need to do something.”
“I don’t wanna, inconveniences me.”
“Then you’re not helpful, you’re at best not helping victims, at worst aiding in prolonging their pain.”
“Now you’ve lost me as an ally!”
Go bother someone else you can grift into thinking “the left got too crazy for me, so i left the left” as you claim you got cancelled and blacklisted as you make hundreds of thousands on right wing media.
Yeah, now you’re just playing leapfrog with yourself.
Thanks for proving my point.
I hope your eyes are opening.
I pray for it.
What?
True
