I recently described why I think “woke” has become a vacuous word that means little more than “libtard” in modern parlance. It seems apropos, then, that Christianity Today also recently released a piece that saw the editor-in-chief claim (in a previous NPR interview) that evangelical Christianity is moving too far to the right.
It turns out that Jesus’s teachings are increasingly considered by many Christians to be too “liberal” and “weak.”
So we have finally come to where Supply Side Jesus is no longer ironic
Christians without the Christ. Just a bunch of Ians
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When you go so far to the Right that you leave your own religion
They never were. They just didn’t realize it.
“we were Christians, until we found out that Christians are just libtard commie socialists!”
And now they’re just Trumpians, with their very own Orange Joseph Smith.
It’s telling that these people allegedly believe a person to literally be an all-wise God but they still think that they know better than him.
And what’s with “that doesn’t work anymore” as an excuse? Why doesn’t that line of reasoning apply to genital mutilation, female subservience to husbands, homophobia and all those other pre-Jesus positions that they still continue to justify based on their alleged faith?
The hypocrisy is transparent. They might as well come out and say that they’ll just believe whatever is convenient and expect other people to treat those beliefs as sacred. I might actually respect them a little if they did.
These sorts of questions not only expose a deep lack of biblical and theological knowledge in the modern flock, but they show how unforgiving people are becoming.
And follow [Trump] blindly they do, excusing all the many moral foibles the narcissistic autocrat clearly has.
It seems a long time ago when Christians confidently claimed the moral high ground. Nowadays, the “high ground” is wherever the “us” is standing, irrespective of the moral topography. There is no desire to welcome others into the flock; instead, fences are built to divide.
And the shepherd? Weak.
Forgotten.
The above pretty much sums up why I despise the church nowadays.
I’m the least religious person ever. But aren’t you quoting exactly what the church is trying to argue against? My point being that your statement would be more accurate if you had said “this pretty much sums up why I despise church-goers nowadays”.
You’re right on all accounts.
Most “Christians” are actually just Satanic hypocrites and don’t even know it. Been this way for centuries.
Satanic?
Anti christ? Pretty much says it in the Bible. Yes, worshiping false Jesus is satanic I do believe
If the serpent in the Garden of Eden was Satan, then Satan was the first liar, told the first lie, and humanity doomed itself by believing that lie.
These people listen to and believe liars who tell them to, among other things, “drill, baby, drill,” which will surely doom us all if believed widely enough, so the comparison is apt.
I don’t mean in the good way.
Ironic, because modern Satanism aligns a lot with what “woke Jesus” promoted. The Seven Fundamental Tenets, et al.
I’m all for laughing at the bigots, but in the centuries that Christianity had been co-opted as a state religion and as tool of power, we have lost sight of the fact that there are some real radical bomb shells in the New Testament.
Turning the other cheek is a popular one, but what do you think about that bit about a camel passing through the eye of the needle, or the whole table flipping at the merchants in the temple business?
Biblical Jesus was a radical anticapitalist and pacifist. We have been using his teachings to justify war and greed instead.
The guy who came to bring not peace but a sword was a pacifist? That’s some interesting cherry-picking.
The beauty of the bible is that it contradicts itself all throughout the OT and NT, so adherents can point to some random excerpt for basically any stance they want to take
That’s what he said, true. You should pay more attention to what he did. I’m talking about Jesus the character here, because I don’t really believe that such a person actually existed. But if he could multiply bread and fishes, then he could multiply swords and arrows. If he could heal the sick, and kill trees with a thought, then he could sicken the healthy. If he could turn water into wine, well, people are 80% water and alcohol is lethal in large doses. If he could take demons out of a person’s body, force them into pigs and then make those pigs commit mass suicide, he could have chosen Roman soldiers instead of the pigs. But he didn’t.
Yes, he flipped out once, when he saw that people were using a place he considered sacred to turn a quick buck by scamming the faithful. That’s understandable. The fact is (as far as I can use the word “fact” for a fictional character) that he could have used his divine powers to make it rain blood on his enemies, both figuratively and literally, like some of the prophets before him had done (e.g. ten plagues of Egypt, siege of Jericho), but didn’t. He chose to let himself be killed instead just to set an example. That’s hardcore pacifism.
interview released Tuesday that multiple pastors had told him they would quote the Sermon on the Mount, specifically the part that says to “turn the other cheek,” when preaching. Someone would come up after the service and ask, “Where did you get those liberal talking points?”
“What was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, ‘I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ,’ the response would not be, ‘I apologize.’ The response would be, ‘Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak,’” Moore said.
“Christians: You mean I need to be nice to these (slur) (slur)”
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Ah, life in the American Paulity.
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No, they were. It’s just not the version that gets hyped in the PR. It’s the isolationist and racist version that’s in the Gospels, but talked about quietly instead of openly.
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Of course everyone does. But the scriptural support for their conservative outlook is there in Jesus’ words. Let’s not pretend otherwise. The fact that it contradicts other things attributed to Jesus is a feature, not a bug.
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It’s disappointing how often I need to bring these out for display.
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Jesus fails to “turn the other cheek” and instead gets violent: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+21:12-13
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He threatens eternal torture in fire to anyone who doesn’t accept his teaching:
https://biblehub.com/matthew/10-28.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/7-19.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/13-41.htm and https://biblehub.com/matthew/13-42.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/13-49.htm and https://biblehub.com/matthew/13-50.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/25-46.htm
https://biblehub.com/mark/16-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/luke/12-5.htm
https://biblehub.com/john/3-18.htm, etc. -
He kills a fig tree for not bearing fruit that he knew was out of season: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+11%3A12-25
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He endorses racism: https://biblehub.com/matthew/15-24.htm
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When a gentile woman begs for his help he calls her a dog: https://biblehub.com/matthew/15-25.htm and https://biblehub.com/matthew/15-26.htm
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He plays favorites: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+4%3A10-12
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He destroys a village’s livelihood: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+8
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He teaches Christians to have a persecution complex: https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-11.htm
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He teaches thought crime: https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-28.htm
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He disputes the concept of personal responsibility: https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-25.htm
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He condemns skepticism: https://biblehub.com/matthew/14-31.htm and https://biblehub.com/john/20-27.htm
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He teaches self-harm in the cause of religious purity: https://biblehub.com/matthew/18-8.htm
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He sends his disciples to steal a man’s donkey: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19%3A29-34
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He was not a peacemaker: https://biblehub.com/matthew/10-34.htm
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He was divisive: https://biblehub.com/luke/14-26.htm and https://biblehub.com/luke/14-33.htm
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He was a liar: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+7%3A8-10
This is the Jesus they worship, not the Jesus you’re taught in the preteen Sunday School.
A few of these are on point but most are really a reach.
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Whether or not you want to admit it, this stuff is there and people like this use them to justify what they already wanted to do. It’s hardly controversial to say the Bible is a Rorschach test that reveals more of the bias of the Christian than what the Christian is supposed to follow.
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No True Scotsman. Yes, they have been taught Christianity. The problem is that Christianity often contradicts itself and most people choose to pay attention to the selfish parts instead of the hard parts that would actually help them to become better people.
Sheeple follow, it’s just what they do, just like water flows downhill and stars burn brightly - they literally cannot do otherwise, no matter how much you might wish it so.
Both the Old and New Testaments have a LOT harsher criticism against improper leadership than about idiots doing idiotic things. e.g. let masses have their alcohol, easing the aches and pains of a farming existence, but a KING must be sober at practically all times. And better a large heavy stone be tied around your neck and be thrown into the sea (to sleep with the fishes) than to be caught leading the sheeple astray.
So it seems to me to confirm the attitudes of the Greek stoics, as the serenity prayer says (short version used by 12-step programs):
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference
In other words, it is more true to say that Hillary lost than that Trump won, and history may repeat itself again if Biden + Kamala loses and Trump takes office again (focusing on USA politics bc I think that’s where “woke” is mostly from). As Obama says, a LOT of what influences our daily lives is not what happens dramatically in DC but rather unexciting (or at least less) local governments - state, city, whatever.
Can we, WILL we, try to do better than those who are not capable of or otherwise refuse to do anything more?
Sheeple follow, it’s just what they do, just like water flows downhill and stars burn brightly - they literally cannot do otherwise, no matter how much you might wish it so.
But they can. They have brains to think and eyes to see and ears to hear. Nor is it some obscure secret that their leaders are lying to them; it is common knowledge. Nor are they forced to listen to infamous liars; they choose to. Do not absolve them from responsibility for their disgraceful behavior.
All very good points.
Except they won’t. To quote my most favoritest person alive on planet Earth today (Jon Stewart): liberal media aims to be correct, while conservative media is effective. More than most people, he knows what we are up against.
To use another tact to explain what I mean: one tactic used by conservative media is to blame the other side - it is “them”, it is “they”, all the bad comes from “their” efforts. The opposite of that though is not simply to say the same thing in the reverse direction, but to question ourselves, and what we can do to make things better. It is hard, it is messy - and to be clear I don’t mean that diagnoses of the problems faced are irrelevant, just that if we never move past that then that is where it all ends: in a click bait media title, no matter how well intended. If Hillary had done this, then Trump would never have gotten elected.
I cannot absolve anyone else of their actions, but neither should I ignore my own - and the same collectively for “my” side.
They have brains to think and eyes to see and ears to hear.
I am not so certain of that as I once was. Setting aside literal stuff like blind / deaf people and the like, they may “have” brains but cognitive dissonance means that they do not “use” them, when applied to certain matters. A good fraction of people listen to authority more than they listen to their own brains, trusting those they have chosen to lead them, even right off of a cliff. THAT was their choice, but then everything else that follows they are not even in control of their own actions anymore. Sure, blame them, okay, but THEN what, in terms of doing anything about it?
Or as another famous sayings goes: “This is fine”.:-) :-(
THAT was their choice, but then everything else that follows they are not even in control of their own actions anymore.
Are they not free to resume thinking rationally at any time? Right-wing lies aren’t mind control. People choose to believe those lies, not just the first time but every time.
Sure, blame them, okay, but THEN what, in terms of doing anything about it?
Then we take cold comfort in the fact that they will not be spared from the coming dystopia. That’s all we can do, as far as I can tell.
A perfect analogy is what is going on in Ukraine: the Russian soldiers, many of them not even FROM Russia at this point but rather from one of the controlled outlying neighboring areas, have literal guns pointed at their literal backs - but does this mean that they should not be shot?
No…and yes. Like if they are able to surrender, great (and purely strategically, that does more to help Ukraine than killing the soldier would, both on the global scale of goodwill rendered plus demoralizing the remaining people in Russia upon hearing not just that soldiers got shot “defending their country”, but that they were traitors who abandoned the cause at the absolute earliest opportunity), but ultimately they will still kill you, your family, and everyone you’ve ever met if given the chance, so you can’t like NOT shoot back.
That is why giving up your Freedom to Think is such a heinous crime. i.e., that is why religious extremism is such a heinous crime. e.g. that is why the Bible says that unthinking adherence to religious principles is such a heinous crime (I Thessalonians 5:21: “QUESTION EVERYTHING against what you KNOW to be TRUE”). Or as the
devilQOP would say, “go on, DO it, you know you want to, it’ll be so much easier if you just GIVE IN and do what ‘everybody’ else is doing…”.The reason I am focusing so much on the precise nature of the crime is that if given half a chance, Democrats and liberals would do it too, just as Republicans and conservatives have. Vote for Biden to support workers? Yeah no he’ll end the train strike just exactly like Reagan did. Vote for Dems to support gun control? Gun control when/where/why/who/how/NEVER? I am not saying the two sides are equal, but I am saying that they are of like nature - politics being what it is and all. And it would do no good at all for “us” to end up exactly like “them”, believing whatever the media tells us just b/c it comes from a supposed source of authority.
On a bit of a tangent, but also getting back to the OP, there was only a single type of person that the Bible records Jesus as literally HATING, with a passionate burning type of HATE even - calling them “tombs”, looking fInE on the outside but inside all full of rot & decay - and those people were the religious extremists of His day, who heaped heavy burdens on people without bothering to lift a finger to help them. I actually think that in many ways Jesus would be more or less fine with LGBTQIA+ - the self-discovering adherents at least even if not the lifestyle itself, e.g. how he hung out with common everyday “sinners” aka non-religious peeps all the time - but the hypocrites not so much, as there are some rather HARSH words said about them, involving death/destruction/judgement etc.
Looked at from this POV, showing up on Jan. 6 isn’t looking so bad (e.g. hypothetical scenario: your mom & dad both went and brought you as a child along for the ride), whereas making the CHOICE to watch Fox News is that bad… if that makes any sense.
