I hope everyone shares their opinion.

  • Belly_Beanis [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    The phrase I keep thinking about is “If you’ve ever wondered what you would do in nazi Germany during the Holocaust, it’s whatever you’re doing right now.” I’m understanding more and more why the anti-fascists did what they did, why leftists were upset with suckdems, and why so many Germans went about their business.

    I feel complicit because I haven’t inflicted violence on the zionist entities, yet I know how little impact that may have while throwing away my own future. Did the anarchists and Marxists feel this way as they were being rounded up by the SS? What were the soviet thinking when pogroms were occurring all over Europe before Operation Barbarossa? When was the decision made to openly resist?

    • mahmoud [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      4 days ago

      The problem is that the Zionist ideology is still spreading and increasing in the world and governments. The Zionist ideology has killed millions of people in Iraq, Somalia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and currently in Palestine and Gaza. The problem is that there is no one who is confronting this extremist Zionist ideology.

    • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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      7 days ago

      … and that liberals believe in nothing

      some part of me still wants to believe it’s because they’re so uninformed or manipulated that they can’t accept reality; but watching them cover their ears and make fun of the people dying in the genocide during the dnc convention in this last election pushes me to accept this reality.

      • Dessa [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        7 days ago

        I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. I know liberals who absolutely don’t turn away when I describe atrocities and agree they’re tragic and worth opposing. I think the gleefully evil types are just one variety of lib, with a lot of them simply being ignorant to that, though often obstinately so.

        Whats most frustrating to me is that they put in this act like they’re the most informed political group on the planet when nothing is easier or lazier than landing on liberalism. Liberalism is the middle ground of a mountain valley. It’s where you find yourself if you refuse to climb up and seek a better view

        • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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          6 days ago

          Very true when you consider that they regard maga as uninformed rubes

          • Dessa [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            6 days ago

            They often are, but many of them have no pretensions about it. They feel a way, figure their positions speak for themselves, and roll with that.

    • sexywheat [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      7 days ago

      I basically never watch regular tv, But, during the Zionazi soccer hooligan riots in Amsterdam at the time I was taking a ferry and they had the news on in one of the common areas. I remember scrolling through my social media feed and seeing the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans chant their genocidal slogans, and then looking up and seeing the newscasters report on the “antisemetic pogroms/violence” happening. Just absolutely surreal to see how the mainstream media were behaving like lapdogs in real time. And, also knowing that the overwhelming majority of people watching the news were surely thinking “God how awful to see all this violence in EUROPE no less against the poor, innocent defenceless Israelis”

      There was a 12 year old journalist on the street in Amsterdam that was doing a better job at reporting what was happening than multimillion dollar television companies that report the news for a living.

      • mahmoud [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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        6 days ago

        The Israeli Zionists, my friend, are worse than you think. They have great hatred, malice, and racism. They only know the language of crime, because they are used to being justified in the end, by the Western media’s constant attempts to make them look like angels. But now everyone knows their true nature and the true nature of the Western media.

        • sexywheat [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          6 days ago

          Oh, brother, I know. They are the fucking spawn of satan who openly celebrate genocide. Mephistophelian devils.

          At least the nazis tried to hide what they were doing.

          Stay safe brother free Palestine palestine-heart I still go out to my local demonstrations every weekend for all of you

  • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    The Iraq War and the 2008–2009 Gaza bombings triggered in me a deep personal epiphany that led me to believe for the last 15 years that genocide (somewhere in the MENA region) was absolutely a likely possibility, even as I transitioned from a liberal to a commie that political epiphany never changed

    I never articulated this belief out loud because for the longest time I wondered whether I was being a paranoid morbid cynic, turns out I wasn’t, some vindication huh

    The scale and viciousness of the brutality did catch me off guard, but even then I can’t really say any of this has genuinely surprised me, in retrospect I now realize I had spent a decade and a half semi-consciously bracing for this reality and tracing back in many ways is the reason I became a communist in the first place

    • mahmoud [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      6 days ago

      The liberal system is the primary cause of most of the destruction, killing and theft in the world. They do not care about human lives. Their primary concern is stealing money. Then they come out and talk about freedom, after they have killed and destroyed countries to plunder their wealth. It is a wonderful choice that you have become a communist.

  • ThermonuclearEgg [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    It’s amazing in a terrible way to see in real time how my country, the US, is still grandstanding as if it had any morals whatsoever while openly funding war crimes, as well as see people around me — even some who were there in the Zionist entity — genuinely act like they were the victims

    • mahmoud [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      4 days ago

      Yes, they kill and publicly declare their crimes, then they make themselves the victims, and the American government is the primary reason for our killing and genocide. It still claims humanity and human rights.

    • sexywheat [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      6 days ago

      genuinely act like they were the victims

      Honest to god probably the most insane/absurd photo I think I have ever seen was a picture during the start of the Gaza Holocaust of an IOF soldier standing on a tank with a cardboard sign with the words “NEVER AGAIN” written on it.

      It broke my brain to see that.

  • Cimbazarov [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    From the perspective of Western society, it made me learn that the “apolitical” people are part of the problem and I’d even say complicit in the evils enacted all across the world. There is no middle ground or abstaining side as long as you exist in the world.

    I still maintain not being misanthropic, as I truly do believe people are products of their material circumstances and those material circumstances can be changed to create a better society.

    • mahmoud [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      6 days ago

      Yes, what you say is true, because of their silence, injustice has increased in the world, looting, nepotism, theft and murder have increased, because they remained silent and accepted injustice.

  • woodenghost [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    One lesson I took from the western student and protest movement against it is, that if possible, every group that mostly consists of newly politicized people, should be lead by Palestinians or at least by people from outside the imperial core. White western leftists can be enthusiastic about the anti-genocide cause too and can be a valuable addition to the group. But as leaders they often fall into one of two errors: taking too many risks or folding to quickly under pressure. The first is bad, because white people with citizenship have the privilege to come out of confrontations with the authorities much better, than everyone else. So they lack proper perspective. And the second is bad because it compromises our cause.

    It’s a general lesson for every movement: leadership should mainly include the most affected people (just like the proletariat has to free itself). They can best judge which risk to take and which point to press.

    Also book clubs are less effective in introducing Marxist-Leninist ideology/theory to a group than just showing up, helping and talking to people.

    Oh and negotiations (for example with city or university authorities) need to be public and on our ground (eg in the protestors encampment). If the people you send aren’t trained negotiators, they need the support of the group or they will be pressured into needless concessions.

  • BilduEnjoyer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    Prior to the genocide I knew very little about the Israel/Palestine conflict and my views were, at best “eh, a two state solution is good???” I got all my views about Israel from surface level media and zero research. Keep in mind that I’m an older millennial so I’ve had to reeducate myself on Middle East politics due to George Bush 2000’s brain rot and political apathy.

    I eventually made some new Jewish friends who went on birthright and told me that Zionism is bizarre and fascist. That prompted some research- then the genocide broke out and I started deep diving into the history of the conflict- I’ve gone from a “Idk just want 2 grill, I’m not Jewish or Arab so it’s not my place to speak on this” non-opinion to “I want to see Israel dissolved and every Zionist freak forced to rebuild Gaza by hand while they attend reeducation camps.”

    Strategically I think that the genocide is the dumbest thing Israel could have done because the state has ripped off its mask of “civility” and exposed via livestream as the monstrous fascist hellhole it actually is- I just wish that it didn’t have to take the death’s of hundreds of thousands to do it. I don’t believe that Israel will be able to survive the blowback from this genocide, but I’m curious about what other people’s takes on this are.

    • mahmoud [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      6 days ago

      The State of Israel was established by murder. . For 77 years, they have been killing Palestinians every day, and they also impose siege and restrictions on us. Few people knew about our suffering, but now everyone knows the brutality and Nazism of Israeli Zionism.

  • secular_shaman420 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    The genocide unearthed a lot of information I was unaware of from before oct 7, but that’s like background. The genocide itself,… , I learned I lack any kind of theory to explain zionazi attitudes, and the generally racist genocidal sentiment on displau from average israelis, and even more heinous from their soldiers. I just,… I wish I knew how to think about it, because it floors me emotionally. How can people be such bastards? I learned what modern ordinance does when dropped on a bunch of tents. I know the sound a distraught father make carrying lifeless child. I know how to recognize shock. I’ve had to learn how to process my own emotion differently, because I’ve become such a raw nerve I have to keep myself from crying several times a day. I know it’s just part of my political consciousness process, but my God why does letting yourself give a damn have to hurt so fucking bad? The strength and trauma coming from Palestinians is just,… too much for me to process.

    • mahmoud [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      4 days ago

      And these same soldiers, when their service ends, travel and no one holds them accountable. As long as there is no punishment for them, their brutality and injustice will increase, because there is no one to punish them. We live in an unjust world that sees the killing before its eyes and remains silent. Some of them support the criminals and finance them with weapons and money. Really thank you my friend for your humanity and feelings towards us You are truly better than what we thought our Arab brothers were, who are now financing the American government, which is the main reason for our killing. I swear to you that these feelings of yours and your support and the support of the people present here, I have not seen from those we thought were our brothers.

    • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      7 days ago

      I just,… I wish I knew how to think about it, because it floors me emotionally. How can people be such bastards?

      I do my best to avoid trying to wrap my head around it, because it seems like such a fruitless and maddening task. Some things are only for the hollow damned to know.

  • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    I already knew how deranged the Zionist entity was from the Sword of al-Quds in 2021. The main thing October 7th has opened my eyes on is how treacherous the Arab comprador regimes really are. People like Erdogan will cry about Palestinians while Turkey continues to ship oil to the Zionist entity.

  • newacctidk [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    I already knew this, but this has reaffirmed the reality for me more than ever. We cannot afford to condition our support for Palestine on Anti-Zionist Jews. This was something I particularly learned from Finkelstein but also generally during the Great March of Return. I appreciate anti-zionist Jews, but I’m sorry it does not matter if they oppose Israel. Frontloading protests with them conditions Palestinian humanity based on their empathy. If every single American Jew agreed with Bibi, the calculus would be the exact fucking same.

    The irrational essence of Gentile anti-Semitism is inferred inductively from the irrational essence of The Holocaust. To wit. Hitler’s Final Solution uniquely lacked rationality — it was «evil for its own sake," «purposeless" mass killing; Hitler’s Final Solution marked the culmination of Gentile anti-Semitism; therefore Gentile anti-Semitism is essentially irrational. Taken apart or together, these propositions do not withstand even superficial scrutiny. 29 Politically, however, the argument is highly serviceable.

    By conferring total blamelessness on Jews, the Holocaust dogma immunizes Israel and American Jewry from legitimate censure. Arab hostility, African-American hostility: they are “fundamentally not a response to any objective evaluation of Jewish action” (Goldhagen).30 Consider Wiesel on Jewish persecution: «For two thousand years … we were always threatened… For what? For no reason." On Arab hostility to Israel: “Because of who we are and what our homeland Israel represents — the heart of our lives, the dream of our dreams -when our enemies try to destroy us, they will do so by trying to destroy Israel.” On Black people’s hostility to American Jews: "The people who take their inspiration from us do not thank us but attack us. We find ourselves in a very dangerous situation. We are again the scapegoat on all sides… We helped the blacks; we always helped them… I feel sorry for blacks. There is one thing they should learn from us and that is gratitude. No people in the world knows gratitude as we do; we are forever grateful. "31 Ever chastised, ever innocent: this is the burden of being a Jew. 32

    The Holocaust dogma of eternal Gentile hatred also validates the complementary Holocaust dogma of uniqueness. If The Holocaust marked the climax of a millennial Gentile hatred of the Jews, the persecution of non-Jews in The Holocaust was merely accidental and the persecution of non-Jews in history merely episodic. From every standpoint, then, Jewish suffering during The Holocaust was unique. Finally, Jewish suffering was unique because the Jews are unique. The Holocaust was unique because it was not rational. Ultimately, its impetus was a most irrational, if all-too-human, passion. The Gentile world hated Jews because of envy, jealousy: resentment. Anti-Semitism, according to Nathan and Ruth Ann Perlmutter, sprang from "gentile jealousy and resentment of the Jews’ besting Christians in the marketplace . . . large numbers of less accomplished gentiles resent smaller numbers of more accomplished Jews. "33 Albeit negatively. The Holocaust thus confirmed the chosenness of Jews. Because Jews are better, or more successful, they suffered the ire of Gentiles, who then murdered them.

    In a brief aside, Novick muses «what would talk of the Holocaust be like in America" if Elie Wiesel were not its “principal interpreter” ?34 The answer is not difficult to find: Before June 1967 the universalist message of concentration camp survivor Bruno Bettelheim resonated among American Jews. After the June war, Bettelheim was shunted aside in favor of Wiesel. Wiesel’s prominence is a function of his Ideological utility. Uniqueness of Jewish suffering/uniqueness of the Jews, ever-guilty Gentiles/ever-innocent Jews, unconditional defense of Israel/unconditional defense of Jewish interests: Elie Wiesel is The Holocaust.

    This is from Finkelstein’s paper of the same name, not the book though parts are carried over directly.

    The handicapping of anti-genocide activism in an attempt to not be cammed antisemitic is a problem. I get that optics are important, but what have good optics actually accomplished materially for Palestinians? Nothing by more slaughter.

    • mahmoud [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      4 days ago

      They started killing and committing massacres against children, women, hospitals, mosques, churches, and schools, and all of this genocide, under the pretext of anti-Semitism.

      • newacctidk [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        4 days ago

        That’s why changing our own language in order to avoid being called antisemites is a bad move. That’s not to say do fucking tropes and shit, but people like me in the States cannot let them shape the narrative and the rules of engagement

  • NeelixBiederman [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    7 days ago

    I learned how much active suppression of the truth the government, the media, and the average person was willing to do. How much control the Zionist entity really does have over the US. How brave, resilient, and compassionate the Palestinian people are. It has cemented the Democrats as a hypocritical, irredeemable, hateful party of death to me. How powerless we are (in the west) to effect change, yet we watch people who are so much more powerless defy the most powerful nations in the world with empty bellies

    • mahmoud [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      6 days ago

      It is good that everyone has become aware of the truth about the Western media, its deception and lies about the truth, and we are strong and resilient because of the presence of people who stand with us and help us all the time, like you.