We had a lunch lecture where this environmental scientist gave a talk about critical materials and how big of a problem our reliance on these are. He links the whole thing up with politics pretty well, explaining how various political actors are involved and benefit from this or that.
At some point, he even mentions how in the netherlands, policy doesn’t get passed without a buy-in from industry. It means quite a lot, cause this guy is government hired in recommending policies.
Then he contradicts himself in the next paragraph by saying that this is the curse of democracy that people make stupid decisions.
I ask this guy about the contradiction. How you simultaneously harp about profits over needs, the evils of consultancy firms, and the inability of the Dutch government to do anything but pursue corporate interests, while also talking about the problems of “democracy”?
He just tells me “we are a democracy that’s why the Dutch government listens to industry”. Well not exactly that, but at least that’s the message I get when he talks about all the corporate controlled parties winning the elections and how that’s what the people chose.
Dude is this close to realising that the definition of liberal democracy is “legitimised rule by corporations” .
Of course, the lecture ends with a book recommendation for a book about the collapse of human civilisation. And a recommendation to go vote and participate in political parties.
Unlimited death upon elections.
Technically nothing can be “uncooked” i dont think… lol
However, yes you are right. I don’t think the political ideology of your average liberal can be redeemed at this point.
The only way liberals change is by being personally effected by the negative aspects of capitalism. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the person. It could be someone they care about.
There’s another avenue that I think a lot of us on hexbear took. It was being worn down by online comments chipping away at the contradictions of our preprogrammed views. However, I think that avenue is only for people capable of self reflection.
I’m often surprised to hear how some hexbear came here from the CHUD side. But I’m older than a lot of people here. I didn’t grow up with 4chan and spaces like that. The internet wasn’t as consolidated when I was more impressionable so it was harder to find fringe views if you were like me and mainly used the internet for music purposes. That being said, I was like 13 when 9/11 happened and everyone including me were heavy into revenge, the military and islamophobia. I don’t really remember being heavy into the islamophobia though. I did grow up using gay as an insult but me and my friend group quickly outgrew it. Oddly enough I credit our boy scout group with curbing those behaviors. While there was a lot of “boys will be boys” mentality in the scouts, our leaders who were just our dads were very good at teaching us right from wrong in that area. It was pretty progressive for the time even if the parents didn’t believe what they taught us.
I feel like I was always a leftist at heart, but I got sheepdogged by Obama (my first election). I grew up hating bush and the Iraq war. I always liked “hippie music” and it’s messages. I read Abbie Hoffman at 14. There just wasn’t much of a movement outside of lib protests in the early 2000’s. I fell in with the hippie kids at school more as a social thing, but I went vegetarian because of a friend making the argument.
The beginning of my radicalization came from Calvin and Hobbes and being interested in the Woodstock era.
They are often easier to reach, because they have already accepted that the system is broken. The hard part is to convince them that their proposed solutions won’t work.
It makes sense. Most chuds don’t have that “I’m helping!” Mentality that liberals do. They’re just pissed off at how they didn’t get theirs
i will just continue to quietly
in the corner over here
Lol sorry. I work with people who weren’t even alive for it and that makes me feel old. I’m turning 37
100% agree. Most people wont look at how their position fits in with the larger picture. They are haplessly self-absorbed in their own story-line, which I can only fault them for so much, I am a miserable sad-sack because of my inability to do this.
Sounds like we are around the same age and I can say that I had a very similar shortsighted worldview at the time. Especially because I grew up in a very privileged bubble with a conservative family. It wasn’t really until I went to college in a major city that I started to see and experience what the world was really like, both good and bad. I became way more progressive and had my Obama arc as well. Then I had my Bernie arc, which started to really push me away from the centrist liberal ideations. My full radicalization came in 2020, COVID and the piss poor reactions/response to it is what got me to the point I’m at today. Watching as the world around me did everything it could to fake normalcy for the sake of “the economy” was extremely eye-opening and made me extremely resentful of the establishment and everyone’s unfeathered support of the capitalist machine.
All that said, back to the initial response, I think at this point its very hard for the adult liberals of our generation to make the turn anymore. They have established themselves, started families, are in the middle of their careers, all within the confines of the current system. I think we are seeing them slowly become part of the “fuck you, got mine” demographic that for a long time has been reserved for boomers and genX. Not to say that’s everyone, I am definitely making a few broad strokes with some of this, but by and large its what I have seen from people in my life.
To add to this: liberalism is more of a lifestyle brand. Deviating from the narrow cultural acceptance of what constitutes liberalism is heavily frowned upon. Just like where I’m from, everyone drives a truck owns guns and camo, drinks beer out of a yeti cooler and has at least one dead animal on the wall.
That’s a great point as well. The reluctance to look inward and question their beliefs is at odds with the… dare I say… identity politics.