This is why ‘debates’ are pointless. People who don’t know anything think Destiny ‘held his own’, when he couldn’t even get basic timelines correct.
Finkelstein didn’t even bother to engage with him because what is the point of having to literally educate him on basic aspects of the topic. What he is telling him, and you, is to actually read the fucking books the Wikipedia page is citing to make sure the citations are correct, and to actually become knowledge on the topic so you can have an informed opinion that is worth debating. The reason why this is the correct thing to do is because even if you were to do a point by point refutation of Destiny, there is nothing stopping him from just making up more shit or citing more crap from an unverified online source.
If a person comes to you as a student and wants to learn, you educate them. If a person comes to you as a competing expert and doesn’t know basic aspects of what they are supposed to know, you ridicule them.
The problem is that Destiny fundamentally lacked the required knowledge to engage in any kind of meaningfully relevant discussion beyond himself conceding immediate defeat. There’s no “debate” to be had of any value, Destiny could never hope to add value as he lacked sufficient knowledge. Despite this, he still tried to argue against Finklestein, who does know about the subject to a far greater degree.
Among Communists, there is a saying:
No investigation, no right to speak.
It is far better to hold your tongue on matters you do not know until you have done the necessary legwork to learn. Otherwise, you contribute to a cacophany of misinformation.
Debates as the modern liberal bloodsport are based on “owning” the other party. Winning the argument matters more than coming to a higher understanding, ergo it’s a space dominated by the most annoying types of people (like Destiny). “Holding his own” doesn’t matter in the slightest unless you value winning the argument over being correct.
If you want to be more educated on a subject, it’s far more effective to spend that time reading. Books exist for a reason. Debates are for entertainment, not education, unless they are held among principled comrades wishing to come to a unified consensus on matters key to principle.
Side note, liberalism is a bad thing. This is a Leftist community, Destiny is rightfully hated here as a genocidal zionist liberal. Just a heads-up.
“because what is the point of having to literally educate him on basic aspects of the topic.” Isn’t this a good idea?
If Destiny started that discussion by saying that he was ignorant on the topic, and willing to learn, there’s nothing wrong with educating him.
That’s not what he did. He went into that debate, with men who have been studying this issue since before he was born, like an arrogant streaming jackass. He thought being able to speak quickly and paraphrase Wikipedia meant he was the intellectual equal, if not the superior, of people who have forgotten more about Palestine than he will ever know. He thought that memorizing Israeli State Department talking points was the same as lived experience, he thought that skimming a couple Wikipedia articles was the same as scholarly research, he thought that pontificating on the stream where he grooms Young girls, was the same as writing dozens of books. He thought that arguing with his twitch chat prepared him to go against intellectual Giants.
Anyone who watched that debate and thinks destiny did anything besides embarrass himself, is a faux intellectual.
Edit: the exact same way that Charlie Kirk thinks that he’s an intellectual giant because he can shout down 19-year-olds, but ends up getting his ass handed to him by anyone who actually finished their degree, destiny walked into that debate like he was going to be arguing with 15-year-olds in his chat, and he got smacked down accordingly. He has not earned the right to be treated as Finkelstein’s intellectual equal. Benny Morris, monster that he is, has earned that.
Calling Destiny a competing expert with Norm Finklestein is like throwing a pebble into the pool in an Olympic swimming match and saying it’s a competitor
Mr. Whatchamacallit
This is why ‘debates’ are pointless. People who don’t know anything think Destiny ‘held his own’, when he couldn’t even get basic timelines correct.
Finkelstein didn’t even bother to engage with him because what is the point of having to literally educate him on basic aspects of the topic. What he is telling him, and you, is to actually read the fucking books the Wikipedia page is citing to make sure the citations are correct, and to actually become knowledge on the topic so you can have an informed opinion that is worth debating. The reason why this is the correct thing to do is because even if you were to do a point by point refutation of Destiny, there is nothing stopping him from just making up more shit or citing more crap from an unverified online source.
If a person comes to you as a student and wants to learn, you educate them. If a person comes to you as a competing expert and doesn’t know basic aspects of what they are supposed to know, you ridicule them.
Removed by mod
The problem is that Destiny fundamentally lacked the required knowledge to engage in any kind of meaningfully relevant discussion beyond himself conceding immediate defeat. There’s no “debate” to be had of any value, Destiny could never hope to add value as he lacked sufficient knowledge. Despite this, he still tried to argue against Finklestein, who does know about the subject to a far greater degree.
Among Communists, there is a saying:
It is far better to hold your tongue on matters you do not know until you have done the necessary legwork to learn. Otherwise, you contribute to a cacophany of misinformation.
Debates as the modern liberal bloodsport are based on “owning” the other party. Winning the argument matters more than coming to a higher understanding, ergo it’s a space dominated by the most annoying types of people (like Destiny). “Holding his own” doesn’t matter in the slightest unless you value winning the argument over being correct.
If you want to be more educated on a subject, it’s far more effective to spend that time reading. Books exist for a reason. Debates are for entertainment, not education, unless they are held among principled comrades wishing to come to a unified consensus on matters key to principle.
Side note, liberalism is a bad thing. This is a Leftist community, Destiny is rightfully hated here as a genocidal zionist liberal. Just a heads-up.
If Destiny started that discussion by saying that he was ignorant on the topic, and willing to learn, there’s nothing wrong with educating him.
That’s not what he did. He went into that debate, with men who have been studying this issue since before he was born, like an arrogant streaming jackass. He thought being able to speak quickly and paraphrase Wikipedia meant he was the intellectual equal, if not the superior, of people who have forgotten more about Palestine than he will ever know. He thought that memorizing Israeli State Department talking points was the same as lived experience, he thought that skimming a couple Wikipedia articles was the same as scholarly research, he thought that pontificating on the stream where he grooms Young girls, was the same as writing dozens of books. He thought that arguing with his twitch chat prepared him to go against intellectual Giants.
Anyone who watched that debate and thinks destiny did anything besides embarrass himself, is a faux intellectual.
Edit: the exact same way that Charlie Kirk thinks that he’s an intellectual giant because he can shout down 19-year-olds, but ends up getting his ass handed to him by anyone who actually finished their degree, destiny walked into that debate like he was going to be arguing with 15-year-olds in his chat, and he got smacked down accordingly. He has not earned the right to be treated as Finkelstein’s intellectual equal. Benny Morris, monster that he is, has earned that.
Calling Destiny a competing expert with Norm Finklestein is like throwing a pebble into the pool in an Olympic swimming match and saying it’s a competitor