I just want something as a proof of concept that this can be for me. I am aware I am the problem.

But everything is wildly difficult for me. I pulled back from docker after realising it was above my skillset, I just want to try home assisstant with a few lights but fair enough it is beyond me.

I opted to install a game, fail. Learn about wine and bottles. Start a bottle and get told I only have 8gb free in directory, I cannot for the life of me see where it is getting that from.

Please god someone tell me there is a step by step for the fucking imbeciles out there on where to start!?

  • nottelling@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    Docker won’t make much sense if you don’t understand the underlying Linux systems and/or applications.

    It’s similar with Wine and Bottles. If you don’t get what’s in the bottle, then running the bottle won’t make sense.

    Find tasks that run on the native OS. learn to manage Linux itself. skip containers, Snap, virtual machines, etc.

    try running a web server using httpd or something.

    • Squizzy@lemmy.worldOP
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      9 days ago

      Yeah I need a basic basic start, hello linux world type shit. Except more basic than that.

      • ohshit604@sh.itjust.works
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        Read into BASH, you may know it as the “Terminal” or “Console” people may also call it the “Shell” it’s essentially the heart of all modern Linux distribution’s and once you wrap your head around the command structure it’s pretty straight forward!

        Key commands:

        • cd == Change Directory

        • sudo == Root privileges

        • mkdir == Make directory

        • rm -f == Remove file/directory with force

        • touch == Make a new file

        • nano == Text/File editor

        • cat == Read file contents and print to shell

        Commands don’t need to be complicated! For example nano /home/SomeUser/Downloads/SomeRandom.txt will open the text editor to SomeRandom.txt in the /Downloads directory of SomeUser

        Each Linux distribution will come with a package manager, Debian based distributions like Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Kali Linux have dpkg and APT as their package managers and Arch-based systems have Pacman,Fedora-based systems use DNF.


        If you really can’t handle the complexity perhaps trying an immutable distro like Bazzite which is more locked down, less easy to break and geared towards folks like yourself.

        • Ulrich@feddit.org
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          8 days ago

          so just to be clear:

          • bash
          • terminal
          • console
          • shell
          • terminal emulator

          These are all the same thing?

          • ohshit604@sh.itjust.works
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            For the most part yes!

            There is a difference between /bin/sh (Bourne Shell) and /bin/bash (Unix Shell), the Bourne shell is still used on more light-weight distro’s like Apache whereas BASH is more feature rich and larger which you use on the more heavier distributions.

            There is Zsh which is an extension of the Bourne Shell.

            Fun fact; Your system may fallback to /bin/sh if it cannot boot properly or is unable to run /bin/bash.

      • humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
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        8 days ago

        Have you tried using emulators? They’re a great start and can show you how to easily get some usage out of your computer.

        If you have a controller, I recommend giving it a shot. There are plenty of emulators out there. Just pick a console you like and you can get games for free at vimm.net

  • Quazatron@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    Don’t feel bad, I’ve used Linux since 1995 and don’t have enough skills to use Bottles.

    I do however game a lot, using mainly Steam and Heroic. You can try to start there.

    • Squizzy@lemmy.worldOP
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      9 days ago

      I did get the Heroic Flatpak on my first install but it wouldnt do wat I needed with emulators…cant remember what it was, I think pcsx2 related.

      I used Lutris and it worked great but I am struggling on this install to get it back to where I had it.

      Also do you rcommend flatpaks always or just for beginners? I have both firfox and firefox FlatPak installed and same for a few other softwares.

      • wfh@piefed.zip
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        9 days ago

        Why do you want to run emulators through Heroic? Most emulators run natively on Linux, most of them are available as flatpaks or native packages.

        I feel like you’re trying to do too much at once. Installing Linux for the first time and immediately trying to use and understand containers and virtualization is like trying to fly a fighter jet after getting your first drivers license lesson. For example, Docker is useful in server contexts when you want independent, isolated servers running next to each other on the same physical machine, much less in desktop environments.

        Take the time to understand the concepts first. Proton/Wine are translation layers that let you run Windows applications/games on Linux almost as native applications, Steam and Heroic are storefronts to download and install paid games, Docker/Podman are used to run containers, virtual machines are fake computers inside your real computer that can be easily managed with Gnome Boxes for example, etc.

        My take:

        For gaming:

        • run emulators as native Linux executables
        • use Steam + Proton to install and run most windows games (even non-steam ones)
        • use Heroic exclusively to install games from Epic and GOG. Run them through Steam if you want.
        • use Lutris as la last resort as it’s the least plug-and-play option out there
        • avoid plain Wine

        For Windows applications:

        • install a windows virtual machine in Gnome Boxes, install and run those programs as usual in the VM. Performance will suck.
        • only use Wine/Bottles when you understand how they work.
        • Squizzy@lemmy.worldOP
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          8 days ago

          Yeah thats all fair, as for launchers for emulators - I was aiming for an all in one place to select games so I could put it to launch into big screen mode on my living room tv. My family less tech literate so I am simplifying…I thought

          • wfh@piefed.zip
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            8 days ago

            You could either add emulators as non-Steam games to Steam and launch it in Big Picture mode, or use RetroArch which is exactly made for this case

        • Quazatron@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          Good advices.

          A bit of research goes a long way. If you get a solid understanding of the basics, you can then build on it.

      • Quazatron@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        I use Flatpaks for a lot of stuff (Steam, Firefox, and some other stuff that I feel should not have access to my tax returns in the Documents directory). It’s not just for beginners, Flatpaks are useful for other reasons.

        • Squizzy@lemmy.worldOP
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          Yes I had heard people say to use them wherever they are available but I didnt understand the difference. If it is siloing them then great I’ll use all flatpaks so.

  • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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    9 days ago

    A thing about Linux is that there’s usually like 10 different ways to accomplish something. If you hit a dead end in terms of your ability or tolerance for frustration… just go back to square one and find a different approach. For games, I recommend starting with Steam.

  • humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
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    Docker is annoying as fuck. Don’t blame yourself for not getting it to work.

    Bottles is also annoying as fuck.

    These two things aren’t really a sign of your skill. The first one (docker) is unfortunately super prevalent these days because of memes and bandwagoning. It has its use, but it’s also used in many places where it’s not needed without providing a comparable means to run software without docker. It sucks how newbies who are just trying to get a program to work all of a sudden have to learn a bunch of docker bullshit. Just another layer of crap to make things harder to learn while the creators jerk themselves off.

    Running Windows games on Linux will always be a pain in the ass because you’re trying to run complicated, sometimes very old, software that straight up was not designed to be run on Linux! I’ve been doing it for years and it’s still a pain in the ass. Some games only work with Lutris, some require very specific settings. It’s all a mess and I don’t ever expect a Windows game to work unless I’ve gotten it to work recently and played it a bunch.

    It’s not your fault. It’s not Linux’s fault. This is the price that we all collectively get to pay for not doing things right the first time.

    In short, don’t lose hope. You’re doing fine.

    • Random Dent@lemmy.ml
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      I consider myself to be pretty okay at Linux - I’m no pro but I’ve been daily driving Linux for 10+ years, can troubleshoot most things, I’ve installed Arch from scratch without the installer script, I can setup and maintain NixOS without much trouble, I can automate stuff with Bash etc. But I still don’t understand Docker even a little bit. I don’t know why but I just can’t get my head around it. I’ve even searched for the “Explain Docker to me as if I’m five years old” type of guides and I still just bounce of it.

      • Theoriginalthon@lemmy.world
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        You are not on your own, I just can’t get my head around docker either on paper it make sense but it seems just enough of a difference to melt something in my brain. Added to the fact that docker fucks around with firewall rules thinking it’s the only thing of importance on the system, breaking KVM networking in the process. It’s just not something I trust to play well with others.

  • PastafARRian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    Professional software engineer here. Those things are not easy and even seniors in my field (and myself, ex-top-tech) get tripped up on it and ask for help. Docker and self-hosting is an entire subspecialty (e.g. devops). Be gentle on yourself and don’t put yourself down. By struggling with Linux you are doing immense good for the open source community. “Step by step guides” not likely given the wide array of issues you could run into. If you know a technically strong person, buy them lunch and watch them walk through your problems for an hour. You’ll either learn something or feel validated that they’re struggling too. Keep at it and thanks!

  • CapillaryUpgrade@lemmy.sdf.org
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    7 days ago

    I have fucked up my computer so many times.

    • Accidentally uninstalled the graphical environment, because i didn’t notice my package manager was asking me if i wanted to uninstall 200 packages, along with whatever i actually wanted to uninstall.
    • Tested a fork bomb (it worked!)
    • Installed a dual boot system incorrectly.
    • Installed a dual boot system correctly, but Windows had an update.
    • Tried to switch out a working component with Something Really Cool™
    • I have spent days troubleshooting an issue that turned out to be a simple syntax error.
    • And, while technically not fucking with the computer itself, this deserves a mention; Fucking up the wifi/network SO MANY TIMES.

    I have also succeeded with some really cool stuff, but that’s the thing about working with computers; you fail completely, until it works perfectly. This is of course a gross simplification, but it also has a lot of truth to it. There’s just not a lot “this is not great, but it will do”, it either functions or it fails (until you get it working and start fine tuning it for the rest of you life)

    Just laugh at the absurdity of the situation when you realize you were just missing a comma in a JSON file, and don’t let it bother you that you didn’t notice before you paid to have your second floor covered in aluminium foil trying to fix the issue.

    Try creating a VM in GNOME Boxes (if you use GNOME) or Virt-manager, take a snapshot, so you can easily repeat this process, and break it. Just make it stop functioning. Do it in an interesting way, and look up more ways on the internet.

    Be curious, have fun and don’t feel bad about getting sick of that stupid computer, you can come back later and it won’t care that you even left.

    • v01dworks@piefed.social
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      My personal favorite was the time I accidentally gave every file in the system full permissions because I fucked up somehow with writing a command and recursively changed them on EVERYTHING instead of just the one directory I wanted to change

      I was just trying to get a game from Origin (I think?) to work and I don’t remember what lead me to trying this but basically I just had to reinstall Linux

    • Valso@lemmy.ml
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      6 days ago

      Hahahahahahaha, you’re a… tech “miracle”! For the 10 years with Linux I’ve never uninstalled the DE by accident or otherwise, or any of the other problems you mentioned. I have fucked up my computer only once but I did it on purpose - to see what will happen. I had already created a clonezilla backup of a working system, so I was free to experiment and… I decided to uninstall both kernels (rolling and LTS) and reboot. There was no kernel panic because there was no kernel to begin with. 😆

  • verdigris@lemmy.ml
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    7 days ago

    You seem to be reaching for pretty advanced solutions – Docker and HA both require you to read a lot of documentation to get started. Bottles is also a powerful and flexible tool, which is the opposite of simple.

    What game are you trying to run? If it’s on Steam it should be a no-brainer, otherwise Lutris can simplify a lot of things.

    I doubt you actually need Docker for anything, unless you have a specific use case I would just abandon that. For your lights, I would try searching for “home assistant [model/brand of lights]” and see if you can find a setup that someone else has gotten working that you can mostly copy.

  • ian@feddit.uk
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    9 days ago

    I too am very cautious of getting stuck with Linux. I try to be sure I’m not doing things the hard way. I have found easy distros and easy ways to do most things in Linux despite many people suggesting I do it the IT pro way that they do. Usually because they haven’t investigated easy ways for non IT users. They mean well, but don’t know about usability or if there us an easy way.

  • Ulrich@feddit.org
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    8 days ago

    People love to go around talking about how easy Linux and self-hosting and Home Assistant are but they aren’t.

    I ran Home Assistant for about 3 years. It’s incredibly powerful but it’s also incredibly complicated. After the 3rd time it offed itself I just put all the mechanical shit back in and deleted it.

    Linux I kinda gave up on. It’s awesome playing Steam games on my Steam Machine but even just playing GOG or Epic games it’s 50/50. I still have Linux on my laptop but I simply can’t use it for a lot of stuff so I mostly use an old iMac.

    So yeah, it’s not just you. It’s mostly fucking software engineers and developers constantly telling you how “easy” this shit is.

    • spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works
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      I had similar issues with Home Assistant initially and had two failures that looked like database corruption in less than 6 months. I decided to give it one last try and switched to MariaDB. That was nearly 3 years ago. Since then it’s been rock solid.

      You had a lucky escape, HA is addictive.

  • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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    9 days ago

    Portainer helped me get my head around docker images. And docker hub sometimes has the steps to configure the container, and sometimes not; many assume everyone knows how to pass bind or volume mounts and bridge or host network stuff.

    I played with portainer a while to visually see what thing do.

    Then it led to command line and yaml configs stuff after that. Its a learning process.

  • kyub@discuss.tchncs.de
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    8 days ago

    Technically, nothing you use in tech is ever really “simple”, there’s tons of complexity hidden from the common user. And whenever parts of that complexity fail or don’t work like the user expects it to, then the superficially simple stuff becomes hard.

    Docker and containers are a fairly advanced topic. Don’t think that it’s easy getting into this stuff. Everyone has to learn quite a bit in advance to utilize that.

    To play games, you went into the wrong direction when fiddling with wine directly, or even just indirectly by using bottles You COULD do that, but you’ve literally chosen the hardest path to do so. You should use something like HeroicGamesLauncher, Lutris or Steam in order to manage your games, install and launch them fairly easily. These will take care of all the complex stuff behind the scenes for you.

    • Squizzy@lemmy.worldOP
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      7 days ago

      Thanks, its heartening to know its fairly advamced stuff and Im not an idiot.

      As for the gaming, I have seen some success last night. I managed to run the setup successfully in steam… but I dont know where the installed game is now to run it 😂

      Bit by bit

  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    For gaming? You need a distro that does stuff for you!

    To elaborate, if you’re using wine bottles, you’ve gone waaay into the land of manual from-scratch configuration, when you should just use stuff from a community that spends thousands of man hours figuring it out and packaging it.

    Try CachyOS or Bazzite! They have a bunch of packages like advanced versions of preconfigured Proton one install away.


    For docker… yeah, it’s a crazy learning curve if you just want to try one small thing. It’s honestly annoying to go through all the setup and download like 100 gigabytes of files just to run a python script or whatever.

    You can often set up the environment yourself without docker, though.


    And to reiterate, I’m very much against the ethos of “you should learn how to do everything yourself!” I get the sentiment, but honestly, this results in suboptimal configurations for most people vs simply using the packages others have spent thousands of hours refining.

    • stuner@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      Try CachyOS or Bazzite!

      Bazzite, sure, but it’s not gonna magically solve these kind of issues.

      However, if one is struggling as a beginner with Linux, I would strongly advise against switching to an Arch-based distro (CachyOS). Arch is great, but this is not its target audience.

    • Damage@feddit.it
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      For docker… yeah, it’s a crazy learning curve if you just want to try one small thing. It’s honestly annoying to go through all the setup and download like 100 gigabytes of files just to run a python script or whatever.

      Idk, when I started out I just copy/pasted commands (later compose files) and it worked

    • Squizzy@lemmy.worldOP
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      If that is actually what the difference in disros is then great, I looked at bazzite and did not get it I thought distros mainly differed in how desktop environment works.

      Yeah docker was a stupid goal, I wanted to start automating downloads and such through rdarr. Seems less time consuming to trawl and click.

      Yeah I do this to myself, pressure on to fully understand every facet.

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        Yeah. Distros are basically just preconfigured sets of Linux, with the communities focusing on what they are interested in.

        • Squizzy@lemmy.worldOP
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          9 days ago

          Yeah it makes sense, I was just picturing the surface changes and everything else was default. Bazzite is probably the way to go so.

          • stuner@lemmy.world
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            9 days ago

            I strongly disagree with u/brucethemoose here. You wrote below that you’re currently using Linux Mint, which is a great distro for beginners. In my opinion, Bazzite offers nothing essential that is not available on Mint. IMHO, the easiest ways to play games are:

            • Use Steam to play your Steam games (native or using Proton). This should just work (on both distros)
            • Use Heroic Games Launcher to play games from GOG, Epic, or non-store games. The recommendation is to install the Flatpak version, which is available on both distros. Afterwards, the setup step is to install a Proton-GE version before you can play your games (https://github.com/Heroic-Games-Launcher/HeroicGamesLauncher/wiki/Linux-Quick-Start-Guide).

            You can - of course - still switch to a different distro if you like, but this is not necessary or helpful to run games.

            • Damage@feddit.it
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              9 days ago

              Bazzite offers a lot that Mint doesn’t for gaming, from dedicated images for nVidia/AMD drivers, to preinstalled steam, easy management of flatpaks (Bazaar blows Discover out of the water), ujust scripts that perform many tasks for you with just a few prompts, a set of programs and utilities uselful for gaming and related tasks.
              Sure, you can install Heroic and Steam on Mint, but that’s not all there is to it.

              • stuner@lemmy.world
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                9 days ago

                Sure, Bazzite has some nice features. But, I would argue that apart from the Nvidia images (there is no AMD image) those are all minor things. And for Nvidia cards, the Mint Driver Manager is pretty good. I don’t think any of those differences play a role here.

                In general, I think it’s really unhelpful to present “switch to my favorite distro” as the first step in troubleshooting an issue.

                • Damage@feddit.it
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                  9 days ago

                  those are all minor things

                  The minor things together make a huge difference. Can you install all this stuff on other distros? Sure, but you need to know it exists, first.

                  In general, I think it’s really unhelpful to present “switch to my favorite distro” as the first step in troubleshooting an issue.

                  Well, you should use tools that are suited for the purpose. I’ve been a Fedora user for years, I think a decade, but after trying out Bazzite I realised how ideal it is for gamers switching over from Windows. I’ve never been one to suggest Linux to friends, as I don’t want the responsibilities that come with that, but nowadays when a gamer friend complains about Windows, I can dare suggesting an alternative.
                  I’ve been in OP’s shoes, although in my case the issues were getting my CRT monitor to show anything or my dial-up modem to work with ndiswrapper, and any help reaching some of your goals goes a long way in helping you persevere on the task.

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            9 days ago

            I’m a massive fan of CachyOS, personally! Installed it years ago, kept the same image since then and haven’t even considered switching.

            https://cachyos.org/

            Different philosphies, I suppose. I suspect Bazzite may work better if you want stuff to just work, while Cachy is more tweaking focused and gets quite rapid updates, though is still quite set up out-of-the-box.

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    8 days ago

    I’ve been daily driving Linux since the early 00s and docker confounds me too, especially the networking. I’m not familiar with bottles. I just play all my games on steam and it’s seamless.

    • Random Dent@lemmy.ml
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      I’ve gotten exactly one thing to ever run properly in Bottles, and that was an accident lol. Which is weird because I can get things to run in Wine no problem, and I assumed that Bottles would be easier since it’s essentially just Wine with a GUI. But for reasons that elude me, everything I throw at Bottles just doesn’t work. I’ve even taken things that work perfectly well in Wine and setting them up in Bottles with the exact same settings (as far as I can tell) and they just don’t. work. I assume it’s something I’m doing wrong, but there’s no real reason to spend the time to figure it out when Wine is right there getting the job done.

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    8 days ago

    So… you receive plenty of great technical advice, I won’t go there.

    I’m sure your title is wrong. I know for a fact that there is plenty of things you did with Linux that looked until then impossible. They do look impossible to most people today. So… yes there are plenty of things you don’t know how to reliably do but you eventually will manage!

    I did read a bit from the Greater Good Science Center in Berkeley https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/ and there was a piece specifically on “everytime” or “always” as basically shortcuts during arguments that reframe the situation incorrectly. You surely meant to say “I often get frustrated trying new things on Linux” instead. It sounds like I’m nitpicking, yet simply rephrasing gives a totally new outlook to the situation. We all, literally ALL of us, do struggle when we try something new. We often fail but if we keep on trying, get methodical about it (what was the error message? did I try something similar before? how does it actually work? who could help me? etc) then you are bound to succeed.

    So no, you are not the problem. No, you are not an imbecile. No, you do not always fail!

    • Squizzy@lemmy.worldOP
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      7 days ago

      Appreciate this, its absolutely right. It was a moment of frustration for sure, not ready to trow the baby out with the bathwater just yet.