public criticisms of the inherent failures of entryism are a (very small, this forum is niche af and not getting less so) part of that pipeline, though. without that criticism, the absorption of these types of candidates just demoralizes people into apolitical inaction or makes them think democrats are the best they’re gonna get. “democrats inherently suck and here’s why, focus on other types of political action” isn’t the same as “Zohran isn’t a harm reduction candidate vs Cuomo, don’t vote for him if you live in NYC”
is he doing entryism? is he trying to change the party nationally or is he trying to win one office? All the capitulations are worse for not being necessary in any way electorally.
is he doing entryism? is he trying to change the party nationally or is he trying to win one office?
beats me that’s one to ask the NYC DSA folks. i assume they run these candidates in the hopes of changing the Democrats from within but i’m not in that org.
All the capitulations are worse for not being necessary in any way electorally.
i think there’s a lot of theory of mind errors ITT and in hexbear’s discussions on a mayoral election in general, but maybe i’m doing one myself with my understanding that the DSA could never tea party the democrats so I don’t expect them to be trying. if they don’t understand it’s an impossible task maybe they would try.
DSA could never tea party the democrats so I don’t expect them to be trying
My areas chapter still argues about this. It is not a resolved question in the DSA at all. I still see people saying we need democrat coalitions.
It’s currently the central struggle I’ve seen when looking at discussions in the national board.
Hell, I see some arguing Marxist-Leninist is a failed experiment that is either less useful or equally as ineffective as social democracy.
I saw someone post on the DSA national forum that the failures of DSA’s left is that they don’t recognize this is a Social Democracy movement today, that basically saw responses split down the middle.
I’ve seen people say this campaign working is proof that entryism works and can be used for the socialist movement.
Over the last year, The Agitator has published numerous pieces arguing for recommitting to the strategy of Bernie’s 2016 campaign to remain within the struggle on the Democratic party ballot line, which is a tactic of democratic socialists dating back to the 60s in fighting within the Democratic party. That felt more relevant during the Biden era, when parts of DSA felt like running away from the Democratic Party was the best option to pledge a new way forward. Yet, the primary victory of Mamdani puts us back in the same place of fighting it out against liberals and everyone to their right. The victory forced national media to suddenly grapple again with the idea of socialism within the Democratic Party
This is the caucus with the largest sway in NYC DSA, and a major playing in shaping its ideological tendency at a national level. Attempting to tea party the democrats is very much on the table.
Some of the “mind reading” is just people trying not to dox themselves.
i’m fairly positive the right wing of the org (who hold the most sway in NYC) do think they can tea party the democrats, when i said “beats me” it was more that I have no idea what their strategy around Zohran, specifically, is and don’t want to speak out of turn on shit I have zero firsthand knowledge of. I did also live in Brooklyn from the late 2010s - early 2020s before leaving for cheaper pastures and felt out the DSA before deciding against it, the more radical people I met there lamented how difficult it was to get non-electoral work off the ground, the rest seemed extremely gung ho about electing the Right Democrats. things might have changed since then, anecdotes gonna anecdote, etc, so anyone closer to this stuff can feel free to chime in and correct me if i’m off base at all.
if I didn’t think this were a core part of their strategy that’s ineffective I probably would just butt out of these convos, but for whatever marginal value pointing people toward other possibilities on the internet has - eh, i decide to post
public criticisms of the inherent failures of entryism are a (very small, this forum is niche af and not getting less so) part of that pipeline, though. without that criticism, the absorption of these types of candidates just demoralizes people into apolitical inaction or makes them think democrats are the best they’re gonna get. “democrats inherently suck and here’s why, focus on other types of political action” isn’t the same as “Zohran isn’t a harm reduction candidate vs Cuomo, don’t vote for him if you live in NYC”
is he doing entryism? is he trying to change the party nationally or is he trying to win one office? All the capitulations are worse for not being necessary in any way electorally.
beats me
that’s one to ask the NYC DSA folks. i assume they run these candidates in the hopes of changing the Democrats from within but i’m not in that org.
agree 100%
i think there’s a lot of theory of mind errors ITT and in hexbear’s discussions on a mayoral election in general, but maybe i’m doing one myself with my understanding that the DSA could never tea party the democrats so I don’t expect them to be trying. if they don’t understand it’s an impossible task maybe they would try.
My areas chapter still argues about this. It is not a resolved question in the DSA at all. I still see people saying we need democrat coalitions.
It’s currently the central struggle I’ve seen when looking at discussions in the national board.
Hell, I see some arguing Marxist-Leninist is a failed experiment that is either less useful or equally as ineffective as social democracy.
I saw someone post on the DSA national forum that the failures of DSA’s left is that they don’t recognize this is a Social Democracy movement today, that basically saw responses split down the middle.
I’ve seen people say this campaign working is proof that entryism works and can be used for the socialist movement.
https://www.socialistmajority.com/theagitator/new-york-democrats-want-socialism
https://www.socialistmajority.com/theagitator/zohran-coalition-govern
This is the caucus with the largest sway in NYC DSA, and a major playing in shaping its ideological tendency at a national level. Attempting to tea party the democrats is very much on the table.
Some of the “mind reading” is just people trying not to dox themselves.
i’m fairly positive the right wing of the org (who hold the most sway in NYC) do think they can tea party the democrats, when i said “beats me” it was more that I have no idea what their strategy around Zohran, specifically, is and don’t want to speak out of turn on shit I have zero firsthand knowledge of. I did also live in Brooklyn from the late 2010s - early 2020s before leaving for cheaper pastures and felt out the DSA before deciding against it, the more radical people I met there lamented how difficult it was to get non-electoral work off the ground, the rest seemed extremely gung ho about electing the Right Democrats. things might have changed since then, anecdotes gonna anecdote, etc, so anyone closer to this stuff can feel free to chime in and correct me if i’m off base at all.
if I didn’t think this were a core part of their strategy that’s ineffective I probably would just butt out of these convos, but for whatever marginal value pointing people toward other possibilities on the internet has - eh, i decide to post
I just post to blow off steam. It’s a fucked up form of self-care for me, lol.
Maybe I should find a mobile version of Peggle…