• aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    132
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Very interesting how all those “pretend socialists” only exist in the third world, and all the “real socialists” existin the west. Yet all the successful revolutions have been done in the third world by “pretend socialists”, and the so called “real socialists” in the west have accomplished nothing. Their biggest success of the “real socialists” in the west being capitalist welfare states or social democracies that rely on old school imperial relationships to fund their welfare in a select few areas.

    No Eurocentrism present to this line of thought here at all…

    What do you think of Nelson Mandela OP? He was a very good leader, right? You know that he considered Cuba an ally and supported their revolution as Cuba sent troops to fight against the apartheid government in the border wars, took inspiration from Mao and called the Chinese revolution a miracle, thanked the Soviets for giving unending support in the fight against apartheid while receiving the a Lenin Peace Prize? So is Nelson Mandela now a fascist according to your meme?

  • Annakah69 [she/her]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    113
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    You have a lifetime of anti communist propaganda to overcome. You’re close, take the last step and realize you’ve been lied to about AES countries. No place is a utopia, but those countries are lights in the dark.

  • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlM
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    106
    ·
    1 year ago

    I agree. Fascist countries like Denmark, Germany and Canada often get called “socialist” and they have been disastrous for the reputation of socialism.

  • somename [she/her]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    104
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Cuba is a beacon of progress and humanity in the Americas. Fidel Castro was a hero. Also a pro at dodging the CIA’s kill squads.

  • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    87
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    us-foreign-policy

    Westerners deciding who’s doing real socialism or not. Westerners expressing their most vile sentiment for foreign countries rather than their own imperialism. Westerners praising the words of their own imperialist intelligence agencies. Westerners unironically praising their own nations for civil liberties like the freedom of fascists to assemble, freedom of racists to express themselves, freedom of parents to own their children, and freedom of school districts to continue racial segregation. Westerners praising imperialist nations like Norway as socialist while using bold language like fascism to describe places under that same exact threat of imperialism, like Cuba and Vietnam.

    Westerners claiming foreign governments are merely pretending to be socialist, while claiming unorganized misinformed chauvinistic westerners are the true heirs to socialism, despite all they do is post online and complain about foreign nations.

    Westerners praising anarchist movements from 100 years ago despite having no common cause with those movements, no connection to the circumstances within them, and probably no actual admiration of them. Westerners praising a bastardized, sectarian, perverse form of anarchism rather than attempting unity with organizations in their areas. Westerners refusing to speak with actual anarchists in their area, who by and large don’t give a shit and just want to hand out food or help at shelters. If Buenaventura Durruti were alive today he’d be regarded with scorn by western chauvinists.

    Westerners continuing to bring up Trotsky of all people, who wasn’t relevant to world affairs for the last 15 years of his life and certainly not the past 80 years. Westerners not reading a single word of Trotsky’s work, westerners focusing entirely on Trotsky’s feud with Stalin, westerners not knowing that Trotsky was a literal military commander. Westerners calling themselves Trotskyists in 2023 for some reason. Westerners deciding they have a feud with Joseph Stalin, a man who died in 1953.

    Westerners attempting to praise their own socialist leadership, who happen to be a scattered group of imperialist-aligned social democrats, Twitch streamers, and actual antisemitic grifters such as in the case of Caleb Maupin.

  • JamesConeZone [they/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    72
    ·
    1 year ago

    The pure (libertarian) socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

  • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    65
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago
    Excerpt from Michael Parenti's Blackshirts and Reds

    Some leftists and others fall back on the old stereotype of power hungry Reds who pursue power for powers sake without regard for actual social goals. If true, one wonders why, in country after country, these Reds side with the poor and powerless often at great risk and sacrifice to themselves, rather than reaping the rewards that come with serving the well-placed.

    For decades, many left-leaning writers and speakers in the United States have felt obliged to establish their credibility by indulging in anticommunist and anti-Soviet genuflection, seemingly unable to give a talk or write an article or book review on whatever political subject without injecting some anti-Red sideswipe. The intent was, and still is, to distance themselves from the Marxist-Leninist Left.

    Adam Hochschild, a liberal writer and publisher, warned those on the Left who might be lackadaisical about condemning existing communist societies that they “weaken their credibility” (Guardian, 5/23/84). In other words, to be credible opponents of the cold war, we first had to join in cold war condemnations of communist societies. Ronald Radosh urged that the peace movement purge itself of communists so that it not be accused of being communist (Guardian, 3/16/83). If I understand Radosh: To save ourselves from anticommunist witchhunts, we should ourselves become witchhunters.

    Purging the Left of communists became a longstanding practice, having injurious effects on various progressive causes. For instance, in 1949 some twelve unions were ousted from the CIO because they had Reds in their leadership. The purge reduced CIO membership by some 1.7 million and seriously weakened its recruitment drives and political clout. In the late 1940s, to avoid being “smeared” as Reds, Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), a supposedly progressive group, became one of the most vocally anticommunist organizations.

    The strategy did not work. ADA and others on the Left were still attacked for being communist or soft on communism by those on the Right. Then and now, many on the Left have failed to realize that those who fight for social change on behalf of the less-privileged elements of society will be Red-baited by conservative elites whether they are communists or not. For ruling interests, it makes little difference whether their wealth and power is challenged by “communist subversives” or “loyal American liberals.” All are lumped together as more or less equally abhorrent.

    Even when attacking the Right, left critics cannot pass up an opportunity to flash their anticommunist credentials. So Mark Green writes in a criticism of President Ronald Reagan that “when presented with a situation that challenges his conservative catechism, like an unyielding Marxist-Leninist, [Reagan] will change not his mind but the facts.” While professing a dedication to fighting dogmatism “both of the Right and Left,” individuals who perform such de rigueur genuflections reinforce the anticommunist dogma. Red-baiting leftists contributed their share to the climate of hostility that has given U.S. leaders such a free hand in waging hot and cold wars against communist countries and which even today makes a progressive or even liberal agenda difficult to promote.

    A prototypic Red-basher who pretended to be on the Left was George Orwell. In the middle of World War II, as the Soviet Union was fighting for its life against the Nazi invaders at Stalingrad, Orwell announced that a “willingness to criticize Russia and Stalin is the test of intellectual honesty. It is the only thing that from a literary intellectual’s point of view is really dangerous” (Monthly Review, 5/83). Safely ensconced within a virulently anticommunist society, Orwell (with Orwellian doublethink) characterized the condemnation of communism as a lonely courageous act of defiance. Today, his ideological progeny are still at it, offering themselves as intrepid left critics of the Left, waging a valiant struggle against imaginary Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist hordes.

    Sorely lacking within the U.S. Left is any rational evaluation of the Soviet Union, a nation that endured a protracted civil war and a multinational foreign invasion in the very first years of its existence, and that two decades later threw back and destroyed the Nazi beast at enormous cost to itself. In the three decades after the Bolshevik revolution, the Soviets made industrial advances equal to what capitalism took a century to accomplish—while feeding and schooling their children rather than working them fourteen hours a day as capitalist industrialists did and still do in many parts of the world. And the Soviet Union, along with Bulgaria, the German Democratic Republic, and Cuba, provided vital assistance to national liberation movements in countries around the world, including Nelson Mandela’s African National Congress in South Africa.

    Left anticommunists remained studiously unimpressed by the dramatic gains won by masses of previously impoverished people under communism. Some were even scornful of such accomplishments. I recall how in Burlington Vermont, in 1971, the noted anticommunist anarchist, Murray Bookchin, derisively referred to my concern for “the poor little children who got fed under communism” (his words).

    Those of us who refused to join in the Soviet bashing were branded by left anticommunists as “Soviet apologists” and “Stalinists,” even if we disliked Stalin and his autocratic system of rule and believed there were things seriously wrong with existing Soviet society. Our real sin was that unlike many on the Left we refused to uncritically swallow U.S. media propaganda about communist societies. Instead, we maintained that, aside from the well-publicized deficiencies and injustices, there were positive features about existing communist systems that were worth preserving, that improved the lives of hundreds of millions of people in meaningful and humanizing ways. This claim had a decidedly unsettling effect on left anticommunists who themselves could not utter a positive word about any communist society (except possibly Cuba) and could not lend a tolerant or even courteous ear to anyone who did.

    Saturated by anticommunist orthodoxy, most U.S. leftists have practiced a left McCarthyism against people who did have something positive to say about existing communism, excluding them from participation in conferences, advisory boards, political endorsements, and left publications. Like conservatives, left anticommunists tolerated nothing less than a blanket condemnation of the Soviet Union as a Stalinist monstrosity and a Leninist moral aberration.

    • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      33
      ·
      1 year ago

      Related excerpt:

      The pure (libertarian) socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

      • Gonna paste a comment I made a couple weeks ago. Seems relevant again, both because of the accusation levied against hexbears and also because Parenti.

        Oh a hexbear. … You lot only have overly simplistic takes.

        When we respond to blatant ignorance with carefully chosen wording, backing up our position with citations and links, and calmly explaining the nuance of complex geopolitical realities, we get accused of “always throwing walls of text at people.” When we answer that same ignorance with short and pithy responses, we “only have simplistic takes.”

        parenti-hands

        There’s no winning with you simple-minded dronies, but I guess there never is when one side can just make shit up that fits their vibes-based outlook on the world.

        • PatFusty@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Gonna paste a comment i made yesterday. Seems relevant again, both because of the accusation levied against deez nuts and also because why not.

          PIGPOOPBALLS

    • PatFusty@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      1 year ago

      TLDR

      Do you guys actually write this shit out or are you ctrl + v from some source? Every time i see hexbears they write up a whole journal article as a comment that most likely nobody is going to read.

      • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        65
        ·
        1 year ago

        …I said “Excerpt from Michael Parenti’s Blackshirts and Reds,” because it’s, uhh, an excerpt from Michael Parenti’s Blackshirts and Reds.

        I copied it from a pdf of the book I cited because I found it relevant. Really, if you want to fully understand how fascism and communism are different and not comparable, you should read the whole book. I know, I probably sound like a crazy person for suggesting that people read a whole entire book to better understand politics instead of going off vibes, but that’s just how I roll I guess.

        • PatFusty@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Sorry i am dumb and cant read good. You see I grew up in the streets of Zacapa where a poor little brown child like myself cant get a fine white privileged education like yourself. You are going to have lower the IQ of this conversation for me so I can understand

      • raven [he/him]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        42
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Are you asking if she copied and pasted an excerpt from a book? Yes, of course she did. Lol

        Edit: If I took a video of myself retyping it or writing it by hand, would you read it then? I’ll do it.

      • figaro@lemdro.id
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        I think a part of good, honest discourse is recognizing and respecting the time of the person you are talking with.

        If you are going to respond with 11 paragraphs quoted from a book, you should preempt it by saying something to diffuse it. Something like, “oh man, this is super long but actually quite beneficial. I wrote a tldr though at the end in case you don’t have time to read the whole thing.”

        I use this site while I’m at work. I literally don’t have time to read all of that lol.

        • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          44
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          That’s why I put it behind a spoiler to avoid clogging up the thread.

          I put in the time of reading the book in the first place, then I remembered a relevant bit so I went back and looked through the book to try to find it, read through it again to make sure it was actually relevant, edited it because it was from a pdf and had wierd line breaks, and considered which parts were relevant to include and whether I should omit some of the examples. I cited that book not only because it expressed what I wanted to say, but also because it’s written in a modern style that’s easier to read than many socialist works.

          I guess I’m just used to an environment on Hexbear where people are more receptive towards reading relevant theory and some of us actually read not just posts and excerpts, but whole entire books. Maybe I should’ve just posted Pig Poop Balls instead.

          • figaro@lemdro.id
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            I don’t doubt that you were doing it in good faith, but the execution was still in such a way that it is off-putting.

              • figaro@lemdro.id
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Say what you want, 11 paragraphs is objectively longer than what most people want to read on social media. 11 paragraphs is just annoying and unproductive.

                You can see I’m right because literally everyone who isn’t a hexbear is like wtf is this. It is bad communication.

            • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              32
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              You don’t have to click the spoiler. It’s literally one line you can easily scroll past, but some people who have more time might find it interesting.

              Anyway it’s a response to a pretty low-effort, unoriginal meme, the whole “proportional time” thing cuts both ways. I’ve added more to making these comments a meaningful, intelligent dialogue than OP did.

        • raven [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          19
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          On Hexbear we regularly bully each other into reading entire books when someone has a bad take. This is mild.

          11 paragraphs is like one single page, maybe two.

      • yukichigai@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        65
        ·
        1 year ago

        Don’t even get me started on the ones who try to argue that “North Korea is more free and democratic than the US”.

          • BlemboTheThird@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            26
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            don’t count on it. back before i switched instances i had to read hexbear users unironically praising china’s “democratic dictatorship.” highly recommend reading the wikipedia article on it; it’s actually incredibly uninformative.

            edit, to be clear, it’s a lot of describing the history of the phrase and vague ideas about the interactions between “the bourgeoisie, proletariat, and economy,” with nothing at all about how it actually is implemented into the government and differs from a regular dictatorship in any way. probably because it doesn’t. here

            • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              1 year ago

              Again hearing more about tankies but never encountering them. There must be some sort of cream for all that butt hurt you people have.

              • BlemboTheThird@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                20
                ·
                1 year ago

                lmao i wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that your instance defederated them. it’s 90% of what they post

                • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Sounds like your instance is small as shit and other small communities dominate the conversation while the rest of us don’t give a shit.

      • cooljacob204@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Ahh thanks for the great reminder for all the tankies about communism failing for China and all these nations so they had to incorporate capitalism and allowed privatization of industries.

        USSR did it, China did it, Vietnam did it, Cuba is doing it.

        • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          hexbear users can’t see this comment, so it falls on my sleep-deprived ass to point out that socialist nations essentially have two options: 1) ban all capitalism and be banned from trade in turn, like Cuba and the USSR, or 2) permit some measure of capitalism, give the west its profits, and use that as leverage to gain access to trade, like China and Vietnam. You either play ball or get strangled to death.

        • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          1 year ago

          Well, that or Marx purists. Marx believed that the transition between capitalism and socialism would include a period where the state was fulfilling capitalist roles and run as the infamous “dictatorship of the proletariat.”

          He never quite seems to explain how democracy arises from said dictatorship, or the people’s recourse when it inevitably corrupts.

      • UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        1 year ago

        also the people that say socialism is fascism are the ones slowly taking our rights away.

        You want to read what book? No we don’t like it. Who are you gonna have sex with? No we don’t like that…

        • EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          You want water while waiting in line to vote in the same state where we shut down polling locations and tried to ‘find’ nonexistent votes? Nope, don’t like that ether!

      • Asuka@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Socialism can be good if the government doesn’t have to resort to totalitarianism to enforce it - and when has that ever happened? Rarely. Rarely.

          • SupraMario@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            That’s not how communism ends up being, it looks great on paper but once a human element is added it goes it shit and some people will be richer than others. It doesn’t make what they have capitalism by any stretch. It’s got bits of the free market there but thinking they’ve got anything like capitalism in the West is a joke.

            • Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              17
              ·
              1 year ago

              That’s not how communism ends up being

              No, the countries you think are communist just were never actually communist they just claim to be or other people claim they are. There are very few actual communist countries, if there are any at all. To be communist you have to be classless with everyone equal to each other. China is not communist, Russia is not communist, Cuba is not communist.

              • SupraMario@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                Lol ahh yes the tankie excuse of “that’s not real communism”…no it’s real communism because that’s how it always turns out. Stop trying to defend the shit.

                • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  “that’s not real communism” is something no “tankie” ever said. It is strawman set up exactly by the people like those the original meme mock, the white westerner pseudoleft idealists.

                  All the countries mentioned in the original meme were/are socialist and it was/is glorious. Westolefto can eat shit, their succdem and ultra movements didn’t achieved even 1/1000 of what ML’s did.

    • Scribbd@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      40
      ·
      1 year ago

      There is a stage in the transition to communism called ‘the oppression of the proletariat’ aka ‘dictatorship’. Supposedly it should be a temporary stage before transitioning into a more decentralized type of government. As far as I am aware, not any communist revolution got beyond the dictatorship stage as absolute power corrupts.

      • Cynetri (he/any)@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        22
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Specifically “dictatorship of the proletariat”, which was basically an 1800s gothic way to say “direct democracy for workers”. Marx is somewhat infamous for the way he makes his ideas sound scarier than they are

        And to clarify, most revolutions fail or adopt bureaucracy primarily to defend themselves from outside, capitalist influence, power corruption probably plays a part too but state power used by socialists is actually part of the plot

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      29
      ·
      1 year ago

      Other than Fascists lying and claiming to be socialists. Because that’s something fascists do… they lie. All the time.

      Or are you someone who thinks the “National Socialist Party” was socialists because the literal Nazis would never misrepresent themselves?

      That hexbear instance is full of fascists claiming to be socialists LOL.

      • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        hexbear was unfederated for three years, are you saying they just sat around all that time pretending to be queer communists to each other with no audience? Would thousands of people really check in to a website daily or weekly for years just to do that?

        • liquidparasyte@pawb.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          I don’t think they are pretending to be those things. They truly believe themselves and their interpretation of Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, communism and socialist projects to be true and just.

          The only issue is that they come from a specific strain of western leftist that got into the “uwu dank Soviet club” meme of the mid-10s and never evolved past that understanding of the people, projects, policies and states they stan like a fandom. They could take some lessons from the anarchists tbqh, but they’d rather post PPB and “liberals get the wall”. Very annoying.

          • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            they’d rather post PPB and “liberals get the wall”.

            what do you want from them, a good faith response? when half the people they talk to are people like this guy? or people like you, who dismiss their views from a distance and respond with with superficial vibes-based criticisms while having little or no understanding of what they actually think or why?

            • liquidparasyte@pawb.social
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              I dismiss their views out of hand because I have history with people who espoused very similar views and they showed themselves to have a very superficial understanding of leftism, socialism, communism, and various leftist writers. They exalt historical figures of communist movements to apostolic, sometimes even deity-like status, and throw theory at people like it’s scripture. They take the counter to the west’s propaganda against communism to be full-throated propagandists for communist projects, even for valid criticisms.

              But really, even if their political lens was the truest and freest, I still would not like them because they are fucking obnoxious and utterly insufferable. They larp on their local instance about “performing coups on other instances” and “doing the emotional labor of educating Lemmy users” when in reality they are abrasive, unpleasant people hamfistedly applying leftist social and economic critiques as a cudgel to dunk on people if they don’t automatically agree with them, be they fascist, racist, liberal or even leftist.

              I saw the debacle with Blahaj and how Hexbear users acted. Whatever critique of their adminship could have been made is completely drowned out by the manipulative yet dense behavior of their accusers during and after.

              What I want from them is to not immediately look for reasons to take the least charitable interpretation of someone’s point and derail threads, stop acting as if they own every single instance, stop larping as if they are building a leftist revolution across the fediverse and go outside, and to stop posting obnoxiously large server emojis all over every fucking thread.

              It’s a distinct blend of the worst of Reddit communists and Twitter users and I don’t appreciate it when they decide to pull that nonsense in other instances beyond their own.

              • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                I dismiss their views out of hand

                I don’t care what comes after this. I still read it, but I don’t care. “You knew some people, therefore hexbear is those people.”

                they are fucking obnoxious

                what do you say about the guy I linked to in the last comment? You don’t think hexbear’s obnoxiousness might be a reaction to years of talking to people like that? You don’t think maybe at this point they expect it and that’s why they’re flippant?

                not immediately look for reasons to take the least charitable interpretation of someone’s point

                look at how your own instance talks, this is absurdly hypocritical.

                • liquidparasyte@pawb.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I don’t care what comes after this. I still read it, but I don’t care.

                  Cool, I suppose I shouldn’t take any of your arguments seriously then.

                  “You knew some people, therefore hexbear is those people.”

                  No, I knew some people who showed bad behavior, and Hexbear users are showing similar behavior.

                  what do you say about the guy I linked to in the last comment?

                  Yeah, they’re somewhat obnoxious. It’s annoying to see communists lumped in widely with fascists. They aren’t 14-year-old Stalin-fancam sea-lion-posting-in-every-Lemmy-instance obnoxious though.

                  You don’t think hexbear’s obnoxiousness might be a reaction to years of talking to people like that? You don’t think maybe at this point they expect it and that’s why they’re flippant?

                  Maybe it is a reaction to to people like that. I do not give a fuck. Unless they’re picking beef with long-storied rivals, everyone else has been here for 2-3 months, maybe less. We are not the collective animus of every anti-communist they’ve ever met. We’re people here to form link aggregator communities, and it’s unacceptable for them to treat people here as punching bags for their past frustrations just because they have a bit of social power here.

                  There’s a wide range of people with political opinions here, and left-wing populism is quite popular here. If they changed their engagement, more people would be amenable to their community. But if they insist on acting the fool, they will eventually be sent back to the circus.

                  look at how your own instance talks, this is absurdly hypocritical.

                  Talk like what, furries? They’re mostly nerds, not much political discourse there. Small twinge of liberalism/leftism maybe.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          Sure. Fellowship is an important part of maintaining a weird cult-like ideological stance.

          Also we can’t ignore the fact that there’s some national interest juice behind this. China being a fascist country that’s claiming to be communist to maintain legitimacy (and maintain power for the elites in that country) means there’s significant resources that can be used to maintain the narrative that fascism branded as socialism is a good thing.

          And dumb people love the idea that they’re the small group that is getting things right, it’s just the rest of the world that’s wrong. See flat earthers, qanon, etc. They get in their little community where (unlike the rest of the world) no one tells them they’re an idiot when they say their stupid bullshit. All they have to do is conform to the overall narrative the community is centered around and they don’t need to do any critical thinking, and gain a sense of acceptance despite being an idiot.

          • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            imagine how awful it would be to spend hours in a long back and forth with someone like this trying to convince them that you have a nuanced perspective and justifications for it and you are not a stupid, monstrous, cult-like fanatic, all while they do not listen to you because they already know you are those things and therefore nothing you say is worth considering

            • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              1 year ago

              Kind of what political discourse is on social media. Saying things to appease with the network your account is in so you can continue to accepted by them. Most prominent social media “personalities” don’t care about the issues, but only want to appear to care about the issues.

              I’d much prefer to talk to someone that honestly disagrees with me rather than someone who’s disagreement is performative in order to please their friend network. It’s possible (though maybe still unlikely) to convince someone who is honest about their views. Someone that’s performative will continue to disagree because you aren’t the one they’re really talking to. It’s the “friend” network they’re always speaking to regardless of who’s comment they’re placing theirs under.

              Such is social media.

    • Ataraxia@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      As long as you properly label China and Russia fascist authoritarian because they have a boner for racism and bigotry.