• Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
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    3 days ago

    Are you suggesting the Tibeten people weren’t liberated from the slave-owning class? That Mao should have just let the Lamas practice slavery forever?

    • AnarchoEngineer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      No, OP is probably referring to the invasion as a whole, as well as the genocide and cultural/social repression carried out by the Chinese government on Tibet during its ongoing occupation of the country.

      You can free slaves without needing to annex the region. Claiming an independent country for your own government to control permanently (regardless of supposed initial intent) is called imperialism.

      The kidnapping of a child for the purposes of destroying/controlling the religion of a culture you conquered definitely is imperialism.

      As is the shelling of civilian populations to quell protests, shelling major sacred monasteries / cultural heritage sites, imprisonment and torture of women during women’s uprising, installing your own government controlled head of a religion because the original one said bad things against your imperialist government etc.

      Those are probably what OP is referring to when they mean the PRC acted imperialist when it used ”military interventions, and cultural influence to maintain their dominance over other nations” like Tibet.

      ^ that quoted section is from the ProleWiki page for Imperialism btw, so even by the communist/socialist definition of imperialism, the occupation of Tibet by the PRC was/is imperialist

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        You can free slaves without needing to annex the region. Claiming an independent country for your own government to control permanently (regardless of supposed initial intent) is called imperialism.

        Tibet wasn’t an “independent country,” it was one of countless warlord states that emerged following the fall of the Qing. Both the CCP and the KMT recognized the need to pacify these states and reunify the country, so much so that they were both willing to put aside ideological differences and form a temporary alliance in order to do it. Tibet was always part of China, is still claimed by Taiwan, and never received international recognition as an independent country, just from like, Mongolia and one or two other countries.

        If you want to treat Tibet as an independent country, then should we also treat all the other warlord states that were put down by the united front the same way? Should we just say that whoever has de facto control of a region is the rightful owner of it - even if it’s a theocracy with a brutal system of serfdom?

      • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
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        2 days ago

        the original one said bad things against your imperialist government

        The original one was a slave owner wtf

        I don’t have a very strong opinion on Tibet as I haven’t been there and investigated, but anyone defending the Lamas China drove out knows even less and is just trying to twist anything at all into hostile evidence.

        • AnarchoEngineer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 days ago

          The Dalai Lama currently in exile assumed his political power at age 15 AFTER the PRC invaded. So unless the PRC didn’t end feudalism in 1950 like they say they did (and also assuming the slavery actually happened the way the PRC said it did despite others claiming it is mostly just PRC propaganda used to try and legitimize their invasion) I don’t think you can really call him a slave owner.

          Regardless, the only one trying to twist things seems to be you because once again, you are trying to draw attention away from the main argument which is that the PRCs actions were imperialist.

          Even if the slave owner claim was correct, that wouldn’t negate the other events and imperialist actions I listed. However, because you can’t refute those claims you instead chose to default to ad hominem, trying to attack me or my reliability rather than the evidence I listed.

      • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
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        2 days ago

        I am saying you are mischaracterizing the relationship; Tibet is a part of China and her people are democratically represented as such.

        • ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 days ago

          must suck to be a chinese shill…
          hey, how do you feel about the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre?
          was china just keeping everyone happy by crushing their heads with tanks?

      • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
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        3 days ago

        When you find yourself defending literal slave owners maybe take a step back and reevaluate how you got here.

        • Deceptichum@quokk.auOP
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          3 days ago

          I don’t defend slave owners, but you do defend genocide. I’ll pass on taking any life from advice from someone like that.

          How about China free the liberated Tibet? Oh, what’s that it was really about territorial acquisition?

          • TheFrirish@jlai.lu
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            2 days ago

            I know I’m late to the party but you’re arguing with a known tankie. I would suggest block and move on. No need to read pure propaganda and lies.

          • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
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            3 days ago

            Tibet is free, they have representation and everything.

            I do not defend genocide because there is no genocide happening right here in Xinjiang, you just refuse to believe you’ve been lied to. No investigation, no right to speak.

              • NewDark@lemmings.world
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                2 days ago

                Right, which begs two questions…

                Why all the smoke for China when it’s obvious the US is much more so?

                Do you think it would be better if we allowed the confederacy to exist? You deflected to “both sides”. What do you believe here?

                • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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                  2 days ago

                  You deflected to “both sides”.

                  lol what? You were the one who initiated the whataboutism here.

                  • NewDark@lemmings.world
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                    2 days ago

                    I think they’re both in the right. I want to know if you think the confederacy should exist. Please elaborate

                • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 days ago
                  1. I think you mean “raises the question”.

                  2. It’s not obvious that all the smoke is for China. We get so much American politics on Lemmy that everyone else is sick of it and sets up filters. This meme in particular is about China.

                  3. No. I think if it wasn’t imperialist, the USA would’ve done a better job at Reconstruction. In case you need an obligatory condemnation, the USA has the world’s largest prison population and still practices slavery.

                  There are other countries that are neither imperialist nor slavers.