Actually socialism is more popular now than ever. Enough that mainstream media constantly writes scare articles about how socialist the young generations are.
No, an average person in the DSA believes in wayy more than any regular social democrat. I agree that they’re not radical enough, but they’re an enormous organization of people against the status quo and so many of them genuinely care, so it’s no surprise that a huge part of current radicals are ex-DSA members.
The DSA is not a significant political force, much less the people that radicalize out of the DSA.
In August 2023, the organization claimed 77,575 members.[1] According to the finance data for the 2021 DSA convention, the organization collected $4.6 million in membership dues in 2020.[157] The DSA allows membership dues waivers for members who “may be experiencing financial problems right now”.[158]
DSA membership in 2023 declined from 2021, when membership peaked at around 95,000 members
Even at their peak, 100k people is not a significant political force, nor what I would call an “enormous organization.”
Enormous by socialist standards. The fact that they can have so many members in this day and age is commendable. A few decades ago any socialist thought being given an honest platform at all among the general population was a miracle.
I think you’re seriously underestimating what most young socialists believe. It is true that they don’t believe in revolution, but many of them change when they grow older and they lose faith in the system. I’m confident that will keep happening.
I’m a millennial communist - though in any practical sense, I’m socialist. I’ve got very little faith in the system beyond it’s ability to act on its self-interest, but (as much as I’d like to believe otherwise) I believe revolution isn’t a sustainable way to bring about the change we want.
Revolution before we put in the groundwork to level wealth inequality will inevitably lead to power imbalance, and a likely collapse into autocracy. On the negative side, we see the likes of China and the USSR - massive death, famine, corruption, and a failure to deliver on the promise of worker enfranchisement. The most positive example I can think of is Cuba.
I want revolution to be a practical path forward - it brings the change we need quickly when we don’t have the time to wait and incremental transition will be all but impossible at this point, but I’d need to be convinced it won’t almost certainly lead to a worse state. What would be different about this revolution that would see it go right (or what examples am I missing?)
What would be different about this revolution that would see it go right (or what examples am I missing?)
I would say there’s no way revolutions of today will go in exactly the same path as before. Remember that China’s and Russia’s revolutions happened in extermely rural, agrarian, over exploited and basically completely ruined countries. If there’s a revolution in the global north, just the difference in conditions and systems is already going to make a huge difference. But even if it happens in the global south, most of it is at least partially industrialized and not agrarian, as far as I know.
Anyway, other than that, I can’t really give you an objective, unbiased answer. I was actually the same as you a couple of years ago, actually. I had the same concerns as you. I think you would really resonate with anarchist theory, analysis and critique of past revolutions, if you’re interested in digging into it.
I haven’t seen much to encourage me in more recent ‘colour’ revolutions and the Arab spring either. I figure I’d be more receptive if the history of this kind of thing (while circumstantially different) want near-universally bad.
Funnily enough, I feel my argument is based on anarchist principles (though I haven’t read the theory) - if we don’t address the practical power disparities created by wealth disparities, it’ll be near impossible to fight the formation of less democratic hierarchies than we have today.
Whatever the case, this is a motivation for me to pull my finger out and go read Kropotkin though - cheers.
Kropotkin is a nice start, though if you want an introduction I think Errico Malatesta’s work is a lot better for that. The essay “Anarchy” is short for leftist standards and is very good. Also “At the cafe” is honestly an amazing introduction piece and it’s written in a regular language as socratic dialogues, so it’s perfect for starting. It even adresses a lot of counter arguments from many perspectives.
Otherwise Anarchy Works by Peter Gelderloo is also amazing.
Actually socialism is more popular now than ever. Enough that mainstream media constantly writes scare articles about how socialist the young generations are.
The media thinking they can threaten me with a good time…
That’s what the media has always done. It’s just that in this age it’s the easiest it’s ever been to see past red scare propaganda.
Socialism isn’t, but “SociALiSm” is.
Taxing people and providing social services is not Socialism. It’s capitalism and good governance.
No, an average person in the DSA believes in wayy more than any regular social democrat. I agree that they’re not radical enough, but they’re an enormous organization of people against the status quo and so many of them genuinely care, so it’s no surprise that a huge part of current radicals are ex-DSA members.
We have different definitions of “enormous organization”
For the standards of leftists in the USA, they’re massive.
The DSA is not a significant political force, much less the people that radicalize out of the DSA.
Even at their peak, 100k people is not a significant political force, nor what I would call an “enormous organization.”
Enormous by socialist standards. The fact that they can have so many members in this day and age is commendable. A few decades ago any socialist thought being given an honest platform at all among the general population was a miracle.
The internet helped lots of uninformed populists radicalize each other, sadly.
“Socialism” in the form of government regulations and healthcare is popular. Not so much Marxism or proleterian revolution
I think you’re seriously underestimating what most young socialists believe. It is true that they don’t believe in revolution, but many of them change when they grow older and they lose faith in the system. I’m confident that will keep happening.
I’m a millennial communist - though in any practical sense, I’m socialist. I’ve got very little faith in the system beyond it’s ability to act on its self-interest, but (as much as I’d like to believe otherwise) I believe revolution isn’t a sustainable way to bring about the change we want.
Revolution before we put in the groundwork to level wealth inequality will inevitably lead to power imbalance, and a likely collapse into autocracy. On the negative side, we see the likes of China and the USSR - massive death, famine, corruption, and a failure to deliver on the promise of worker enfranchisement. The most positive example I can think of is Cuba.
I want revolution to be a practical path forward - it brings the change we need quickly when we don’t have the time to wait and incremental transition will be all but impossible at this point, but I’d need to be convinced it won’t almost certainly lead to a worse state. What would be different about this revolution that would see it go right (or what examples am I missing?)
I would say there’s no way revolutions of today will go in exactly the same path as before. Remember that China’s and Russia’s revolutions happened in extermely rural, agrarian, over exploited and basically completely ruined countries. If there’s a revolution in the global north, just the difference in conditions and systems is already going to make a huge difference. But even if it happens in the global south, most of it is at least partially industrialized and not agrarian, as far as I know.
Anyway, other than that, I can’t really give you an objective, unbiased answer. I was actually the same as you a couple of years ago, actually. I had the same concerns as you. I think you would really resonate with anarchist theory, analysis and critique of past revolutions, if you’re interested in digging into it.
I haven’t seen much to encourage me in more recent ‘colour’ revolutions and the Arab spring either. I figure I’d be more receptive if the history of this kind of thing (while circumstantially different) want near-universally bad.
Funnily enough, I feel my argument is based on anarchist principles (though I haven’t read the theory) - if we don’t address the practical power disparities created by wealth disparities, it’ll be near impossible to fight the formation of less democratic hierarchies than we have today.
Whatever the case, this is a motivation for me to pull my finger out and go read Kropotkin though - cheers.
Kropotkin is a nice start, though if you want an introduction I think Errico Malatesta’s work is a lot better for that. The essay “Anarchy” is short for leftist standards and is very good. Also “At the cafe” is honestly an amazing introduction piece and it’s written in a regular language as socratic dialogues, so it’s perfect for starting. It even adresses a lot of counter arguments from many perspectives.
Otherwise Anarchy Works by Peter Gelderloo is also amazing.
While we might not agree on the methods, I appreciate you!
I’ll look in to those.