- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
Fork time? Maybe all the anti-systemd zealots were right all along…
Edit: To address whether it is likely that this change will affect users: Gnome is planning a stronger dependence on userdb, the part of systemd where this change is being implemented. https://blogs.gnome.org/adrianvovk/2025/06/10/gnome-systemd-dependencies/
Final Edit: The PR has been merged into main.
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I’m a noob when it comes to deep linux stuff.
So how does this affect end users and are we at risk of leaking personal info? It looks to me they are adding a birthDate field along with other meta data. Will these metadata be sent to whatever local authorities or whatever data hoarder on the web (like Google) without user consent?
I meant what stops me from listing false info like: Name: Biggus Dickus DOB: 06/09/1969 Nationality: Spartan …etc. ?
I usually use systemd for stuff like hibernate/suspend, e.g.
systemd suspend
and if on i3wm, I edit configs for sleep and lid close in /etc/systemd/sleep.conf
Are these affected too?.
Final Edit: The PR has been merged into main.
Fucking hell. All he had to do was fucking nothing, the bastard.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/revoluciana-facing-fascism-sabotage
Sabotage sounds spicy. It sounds dangerous.
And yet, the underlying concept is simply this: inefficiency.
I told you last time, make every inch have its cost.
Resistance does not have to be violent, and that’s not something I’m advocating here. Resistance is the word no. Resistance is standing in place. Resistance is pushing.
Resistance is the albatross around the neck of your opposition. Resistance is the anchor that drags along the sea floor.
Here are some incredibly mundane but effective examples from the manual:
Make mistakes with purchasing travel tickets
Make engineering mistakes
Make long speeches and waste time
Act ignorant, or ask a lot of questions: if you’re not familiar with the concept of sea-lioning, you should really learn it
Take longer to do your work
Even if you’re terrified of doing more, this is simply a place to start.
You are someone and you have a responsibility to do something.
You cannot make it easier for the fascists to achieve their goals. You can’t do it today, and you can’t do it later if they claim authority. You must stand in the way of oppression.
This is fucking horseshit. I’m turning against fucking systemd , and I had no fucking opinion before, now it’s completely clear they’re a bunch of 1940s IBM wannabees.
EDIT : What a surprise, the fucker that wrote the PR works for IBM and “A Medical Malpractice company” and the one that merged it works for Microsoft.
What is the alternative to systemd? I’m sort of a linux noob when it comes to this deeper level stuff.
Most distributions use systemd but there are still distros and other unix-like operating systems that are using something else. However, they are not “user friendly” and will probably not be what most people are looking for.
Slackware uses its own init system and never used systemd but it has the reputation of being difficult to use. Gentoo also lets users choose between systemd and OpenRC. Alpine Linux uses OpenRC too. There’s more than a dozen distros not using systemd, but again, probably not what most people want to use. It’s also possible to replace systemd with OpenRC on some distros, but it possibly, probably, might cause some quirks.
Otherwise, there are other unix-like operating systems. Debian GNU Hurd also has its own init system but it’s not using the Linux kernel, so it’s a different beast. OpenBSD and FreeBSD also have their own init system, but not Linux. And AFAIK there’s no such thing as modern gaming on those.
There are ways not to use systemd, but realistically speaking, it will probably not be worth it unless you’re really militant about this. I started with Slackware at the end of the 90ies, I know how to compile a kernel, and tried GNU Hurd at some point, but I will not change something unless it’s really implemented deeper into the general software. It’s frustrating that the systemd devs are “collaborating”, but we’ll see what happens after a few rounds of updates.
SystemD isnt exactly a program but more of a group of projects, the only “core” SystemD software on most distros is the init system… Which you can run completely without SystemD’s UserDB system (the part being talked about in the post).
Basically this means you as a user dont have to do anything but switch away from projects that depend on SystemD’s UserDB (like Gnome), not SystemD as a whole
However if you do want to move away from SystemD as a whole you can replace your init system with another one, gentoo’s wiki is a good starting point for learning a bit more: wiki. Personally I love using openrc but of you have no need to touch init files… Dont switch
Does KDE also use UserDB?
mine doesn’t appear to be? it says installed but disabled. unless i’m looking at the wrong service which is entirely possible.
Thanks for explaining it a bit more. I moved from Windows 11 to CachyOS (limine bootloader and kde plasma DE) sometime last year and that may be a bit above my paygrade right now. Based on what I’m seeing in the Arch Wiki it would seem that quite a few systemd components are in use for my distro.
Any way to not have Systemd on NixOS?
I guess it’s time to get back to TempleOS.
HolyC is the real C
Wow that’s an insane level of bootlicking, it was completely free for them to do absolutely nothing about this nonsense law and give the middle finger if asked by the US
I didn’t care before but it turns out the systemd haters were on to something for a long time, fuck these owners for even considering this and even locking the PR to avoid valid criticism, I hope all the contributors create a fork, jump ship and never let the previous owners commit a single line of code to it
one day… one day I’ll be able to run Steam on *BSD…
Though I haven’t tested it myself.
I 0man on using my McLovin ID for all this verification shit.
I literally have the same plan if I ever need to.
Joke’s on them, I use Limine 🤣
forgive me if this is a joke, i’m not well versed in linux shit yet, but wouldn’t that only remove systemd-boot?
I am a Coloradan; I have already called all 4 cosponsors of the bill here. What can I do now? Does anyone know which orgs are fighting against this? We have a petition process to get constitutional amendments on the ballot. My dream would be to collect enough signatures to get this constitutional amendment on the next ballot but I think the deadline for submitting the text (prior to collecting sigs) is late this month:
“No form of AI or ID-based age verification shall be used as a condition for granting Colorado residents access to a website, internet service, or operating system. Age gates that rely exclusively on user-reported age may continue to be used in their current form to inform users that a website may not be appropriate for all users. Colorado recognizes that parents are the responsible party for what their children access online and that requiring ID verification for access to computing resources or digital resources is a violation of free speech and freedom of inquiry.”
A lot of open source software is kind of ridiculous to many people. Why would you want to reverse engineer some proprietary device? Just choose one that is more open. It isn’t just about the challenge. It is also about extending freedom to do stuff as many places as possible. I might not want age verification in my operating system as its just another way to fingerprint me by big tech. And I probably won’t have it enabled or exposed. But having the option allows people to participate in the shitty, spying. predatory, manipulative, commercial hellscape version of the Internet which is increasingly facing regulation around the world. That is a freedom. Not a freedom I want but a freedom someone wants. It means they are not legally forced to use Microsoft or Apple to give all their data to the NSA and big predatory businesses.
Has anyone even looked at the PR? Why is there such a big stink about adding an optional birthday field to a JSON schema? It’s opt-in and can’t be validated in any way.
That’s like saying OpenSSL is the thin end of an anti-encryption wedge because they provide FIPS compliant modules. Or complaining that it puts your privacy at risk when you generate an SSH key and it asks for your address.
The problem is the laws getting passed, not with software that gives people a choice about whether to comply.
Yes, the PR specifically calls out the laws as the reason for this change. The problem is BOTH the laws getting passed, and corporate interests complying in advance.
Personally, I just don’t like the taste of asslicking in my distributions. Time to change to a non systemd distro.
… can’t be validated in any way.
I feel like this will be a problem for the future.
Edit: another user already pointed out the “problem for the future” here.
It definitely will be a problem, but it will be a legal problem, not a software problem. Even if the systemd devs decided to revert this commit and never collect age data, the law would still be just a shitty as it is now.
If this law said that everyone needed to provide a phone number instead of a birthday, would everyone here be just as angry at the Bell Labs developers who wrote the GECOS standard?
Everyone should be 76 years old, to honor System76 for helping.
The problem is the laws getting passed, not with software that gives people a choice about whether to comply.
OK, but the law didn’t even get written.That asshole decided to open up and deepthroat the boot before it even entered the room.the law didn’t even get written
https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab1043
Current Status: PASSED
Ummm… what?
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/40954#issuecomment-4032221990
I’m Jeremy from System76. We are in talks with legislators and there are likely to be amendments to the age verification bills, as well as conflicting requirements in different jurisdictions. It may even be the case that open source operating systems are exempted entirely. I detailed this on the xdg mailing list here:
https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2026-March/014797.html
I have other concerns about this specific implementation. By relying on systemd, which is decidedly unportable to non-Linux operating systems, and not used across all Linux operating systems either, it will force at least one alternative implementation to exist. If these implementations end up having to collect jurisdiction specific requirements, that makes it much harder for compliance.
IDK, I read about this bullshit like last week, and it was always presented in future tense. I saw this post from Jeremy from System 76 today in the goddamn Git thread, so excuse me for not understanding the current state of the problem.
Just think of all those Azure and AWS VMs needing age verification as they’re spooled up, destroyed and receated every few minutes…
…Practically, what does this even mean for a systemd user like me?
What app would use this? And If anything actually uses the field, can’t I just enter a random date, like I have across the internet forever?
Self reporting has long been honored as the gold fucking standard for honesty! How dare you sully that with your very discrete scrolling to a random year, and not even bothering to select a date! Our data mining overlords will be displeased.
They implemented part of the the low level works needed to implement birth date verification. Commercial distros like Ubuntu, RHEL and SteamOS might use it for law compliance. It’ll very likely be as easy to bypass as it can be since no one really wants this.
You mean tied to IDs or something?
Commercial services would’ve just implemented that anyway. And yeah, likely with “absolute bare minimum effort.”
I’m still a bit confused. This thread is acting like this is a slope to systemd distros requiring an ID check, if I’m reading it right.
Yes it’s rage bait and most here fall face first in it.
Go petition your lawmakers instead of shitting on open source projects implementing required by law features.It’s not rage bate to inform people there is a problem so they know to call legislators.
Then incite people to call their legislators. Not openly shit on maintainers of open source projects.
I see more people here whining about systemd than about having the laws repealed. It’s simple: there are currently 0 posts about that.Is it wrong to call out those complying in advance with fascism? I will agitate in any way that sparks debate and encourages people to be more aware of what is at stake. I gain absolutely nothing else, especially on Lemmy… maybe if this was Reddit you could accuse me of being some shill farming karma. But that shit culture doesn’t exist here.
You mean tied to IDs or something?
Anything goes, ID is one way to do it.
This thread is acting like this is a slope to systemd distros requiring an ID check, if I’m reading it right.
The post itself is phrased like that for engagement.
We graybeards tried to warn you about systemd but you acted as fools.
It does not help that non insignificant amounts of systemd criticism comes from Lunduke and gang, often ignoring the actual technical problems with systemd and turning into culture war.
I don’t mean you, just my thoughts.
Guilty as charged xD
I know the debate around systemd is going on for quite some time, I understood the basic reasoning behind it but I don’t have the technical knowledge required to truly decide for myself, so I just didn’t pay too much attention to it and followed what my distro of choice does.
The good thing about this “new development” is that it’s not just a tech debate anymore, it has such wider implications that it’ll be much easier for people to decide where to be.
A large part of the disagreement was never a tech debate. Systemd on a purely technical level had advantages, but the arguments were always about a concentration of functionality into a single critical program. Great while things are going well. Hell when it falls apart. That fear wasn’t totally based in technical reasoning.
i’m going to start dyeing mine so that people won’t just keep ignoring me like some old man yelling at the neighborhood kids to get off his lawn. lol
