lol bullshit they’re going to sue, how’s that going to go? is “israel” going to allow discovery in their prison sexual violence industrial complex? how are the headlines going to look when they inevitably lose?
is “israel” going to allow discovery in their prison sexual violence industrial complex?
doesn’t sound necessary, all they need is the right judge and i’m pretty sure right wing ‘unconditional support for israel’ types are a super majority of all judges at this point
Discovery is when both sides get to look at the evidence the other side has. It occurs prior to the avtual hearing or trial. They are also able to make requests of evidence they think the other side might have. For example, I would expect that Israel would request internal NYT emails, drafts and correspondence regarding this article in particular. NYT is required to provide them and failing to do so is contempt of court. NYT would also be allowed to make similar requests, probably of various parts of the entire Israeli state.
Of course there can be arguments back and forth about this. The exact rules would depend on the jurisdiction.
But if this case actually gets to court, it is 100% guareneteed to result in some heinous new Israeli horrors coming to light via discovery.
At this point, this lawsuit is merely a threat and I doubt it will even come to be filed because it would expose Israel to a substantial threat.
I mean, Israel is a country. They can just produce evidence. Israel at its most incompetent has acted as a bubble apartheid state, overtly reliant on the United States to run PR for them, and expecting that normal people see their genocidal tiktoks as something worthy of praise.
In contrast, I assume that a team of israeli lawyers would just provide bullshit evidence and american courts would not find their actions to be in contempt. The NYT would settle out of court and would be happy to do so, providing Israel with the sort of PR win that the NYT exists to fabricate. This isn’t the UN, this process would be entirely endogenous to a country where the elite is unified in nothing but supporting Israel at all costs.
If this whole things ends up being a bluff, I find it more convincing that israeli inaction would be out of solidarity among american capitalists. Not out of fear of accountability or the american rule of law.
This may sound like I’m just dimissing your post - and I do want to acknowledge that this is how things are supposed to happen in court. My point, in contrast, is just my own pessimism in regards to the american political system or the people who head the likes of the New York Crimes. Neither seems to have any desire to or even the ability to use the levers available in resistance to the pro Israel agenda of the United States.
My pessimism might be ill-informed in regards to the potential danger that Israel faces in court but I genuinely think things would just be settled out of court due to the sheer political pressure by none other than whoever owns the NYT.
I think the reason for this threat is to provide some weight to a zionist position internally in the newsroom. It will let people who are making decisions and doing work sort of excuse themselves and their organization with this fake-ass threat of lawsuit.
Next time there is something like this to publish, the editors will have a reason for censorship. They will say “look we ave enough going on right now without being sued by Israel”.
And it’ll not just be heard by the NYT, but all kinds of outlets, and other non-media organizations, who are not as well resourced when it comes to fact checking and legal defence.
This chilling is assisted when there are headlines like the OP which says “Israel to sue” instead of “Israel threatens to sue”. It confuses whether there is even a legal case going on.
a team of israeli lawyers would just provide bullshit evidence and american courts would not find their actions to be in contempt.
But if it did go to a trial, the amount of fabricated evidence you are suggesting is massive. Discovery requests would likely be sent to various israeli government departments, organizations and individuals. Anybody who could provide information to substantiate the NYT’s claims. Whatever is produced, people would all have to swear an oath that it was complete, intact and true. And if they were involved, they could be brought to court to speak about the documents, to be cross examined regarding their contents. So you are proposing that dozens, maybe hundreds of israeli people who work all over the place would have to be completely compliant. And don’t forget all the discovered material would have to be internally coherent, and not in contradiction to existing known materials.
american courts would not find their actions to be in contempt
Do you think each and every person who would have to sign an affidavit regarding the veracity of information would be confident enough in that to do so on the basis of a fabricated set of documents? Every person in every responsive email chain? It would require perfect discipline, perfect adherence, forever.
All this would happen in public, on the record. This is why israel would never in a million years actually move forward on a case like this. Suing for libel is very dangerous, for anyone. Especially when you did the thing you are sueing over.
They are never doing anything in court anyhow. Haven’t you noticed how there have been no trials related to Oct 7, no charges brought to the ICJ or the ICC by Israel? They have been defendants, but basically have given up on the pretense of legal legitimacy.
Next time there is something like this to publish, the editors will have a reason for censorship.
I agree with the rest of your post, but this feels unnecessary. For an oulet like the NYT the reason for censorship seems to be ‘our editorial line is Israel’s line’ and ‘a plurality of you are attachés from the CIA anyways, so do your jobs’.
lol bullshit they’re going to sue, how’s that going to go? is “israel” going to allow discovery in their prison sexual violence industrial complex? how are the headlines going to look when they inevitably lose?
doesn’t sound necessary, all they need is the right judge and i’m pretty sure right wing ‘unconditional support for israel’ types are a super majority of all judges at this point
Discovery is when both sides get to look at the evidence the other side has. It occurs prior to the avtual hearing or trial. They are also able to make requests of evidence they think the other side might have. For example, I would expect that Israel would request internal NYT emails, drafts and correspondence regarding this article in particular. NYT is required to provide them and failing to do so is contempt of court. NYT would also be allowed to make similar requests, probably of various parts of the entire Israeli state.
Of course there can be arguments back and forth about this. The exact rules would depend on the jurisdiction.
But if this case actually gets to court, it is 100% guareneteed to result in some heinous new Israeli horrors coming to light via discovery.
At this point, this lawsuit is merely a threat and I doubt it will even come to be filed because it would expose Israel to a substantial threat.
I mean, Israel is a country. They can just produce evidence. Israel at its most incompetent has acted as a bubble apartheid state, overtly reliant on the United States to run PR for them, and expecting that normal people see their genocidal tiktoks as something worthy of praise.
In contrast, I assume that a team of israeli lawyers would just provide bullshit evidence and american courts would not find their actions to be in contempt. The NYT would settle out of court and would be happy to do so, providing Israel with the sort of PR win that the NYT exists to fabricate. This isn’t the UN, this process would be entirely endogenous to a country where the elite is unified in nothing but supporting Israel at all costs.
If this whole things ends up being a bluff, I find it more convincing that israeli inaction would be out of solidarity among american capitalists. Not out of fear of accountability or the american rule of law.
This may sound like I’m just dimissing your post - and I do want to acknowledge that this is how things are supposed to happen in court. My point, in contrast, is just my own pessimism in regards to the american political system or the people who head the likes of the New York Crimes. Neither seems to have any desire to or even the ability to use the levers available in resistance to the pro Israel agenda of the United States.
My pessimism might be ill-informed in regards to the potential danger that Israel faces in court but I genuinely think things would just be settled out of court due to the sheer political pressure by none other than whoever owns the NYT.
I think the reason for this threat is to provide some weight to a zionist position internally in the newsroom. It will let people who are making decisions and doing work sort of excuse themselves and their organization with this fake-ass threat of lawsuit.
Next time there is something like this to publish, the editors will have a reason for censorship. They will say “look we ave enough going on right now without being sued by Israel”.
And it’ll not just be heard by the NYT, but all kinds of outlets, and other non-media organizations, who are not as well resourced when it comes to fact checking and legal defence.
This chilling is assisted when there are headlines like the OP which says “Israel to sue” instead of “Israel threatens to sue”. It confuses whether there is even a legal case going on.
But if it did go to a trial, the amount of fabricated evidence you are suggesting is massive. Discovery requests would likely be sent to various israeli government departments, organizations and individuals. Anybody who could provide information to substantiate the NYT’s claims. Whatever is produced, people would all have to swear an oath that it was complete, intact and true. And if they were involved, they could be brought to court to speak about the documents, to be cross examined regarding their contents. So you are proposing that dozens, maybe hundreds of israeli people who work all over the place would have to be completely compliant. And don’t forget all the discovered material would have to be internally coherent, and not in contradiction to existing known materials.
Do you think each and every person who would have to sign an affidavit regarding the veracity of information would be confident enough in that to do so on the basis of a fabricated set of documents? Every person in every responsive email chain? It would require perfect discipline, perfect adherence, forever.
All this would happen in public, on the record. This is why israel would never in a million years actually move forward on a case like this. Suing for libel is very dangerous, for anyone. Especially when you did the thing you are sueing over.
They are never doing anything in court anyhow. Haven’t you noticed how there have been no trials related to Oct 7, no charges brought to the ICJ or the ICC by Israel? They have been defendants, but basically have given up on the pretense of legal legitimacy.
I agree with the rest of your post, but this feels unnecessary. For an oulet like the NYT the reason for censorship seems to be ‘our editorial line is Israel’s line’ and ‘a plurality of you are attachés from the CIA anyways, so do your jobs’.
Apparently the piece was in the opinion section too