which happened unintentionally as a consequence of the policy of rapid collectivization and reindustrialization.
So you claim, that because they starved entire country worth of people “accidentaly” so it’s okay? What kind of sick fuck morality is this?
This policy unambiguously is what enabled the Soviets to defeat Nazism (no tanks and rifles = extermination) and save all Slavic peoples (including you) from being genocided by Germany
Jeus no. Nazis occupied both territories of Poland and Ukraine during ww2, and they successfully genocided jews who lived there. If they wanted to genocide slavs too, they would.
You sound as if famine that happened before war was somehow necessary part of industrializaton.
So you claim, that because they starved entire country worth of people “accidentaly” so it’s okay?
I claim that unintentional famine (famine being commonplace in that region at the time) is horrible, but less horrible than being entirely genocided by Nazis if that’s the alternative (it was).
Nazis occupied both territories of Poland and Ukraine during ww2, and they successfully genocided jews who lived there. If they wanted to genocide slavs too, they would
“The Generalplan Ost (lit. ‘Master Plan for the East’), abbreviated GPO, was Nazi Germany’s plan for the settlement and “Germanization” of captured territory in Eastern Europe, involving the genocide, extermination and large-scale ethnic cleansing of Slavs, Eastern European Jews, and other indigenous peoples of Eastern Europe categorized as “Untermenschen” in Nazi ideology”
They did want to murder Slavs, and they did murder them. As a matter of fact, 27 million Soviets died during WW2, most of them being Slavs, so about twice as many Slavs were killed in the USSR alone (not counting Poland) than total Jews by Nazis. And you say the Soviets were propagandized, you didn’t even know that the Nazis explicitly wanted to genocide your own peoples and partially did. Fortunately, the brave workers, peasants and soldiers of Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Kazakhstan and all other Soviet republics managed to defeat Nazism, although at an immense cost.
You sound as if famine that happened before war was somehow necessary part of industrializaton
It was not a necessary part in the strict sense. The point is that Soviet politicians were aware that rapid collectivization would be chaotic and have unforeseen consequences, but it was the only way to enable the rapid industrialization that was explicitly carried out with the intent of defending the USSR from the inevitable capitalist/fascist invasion. You can read this in the Wikipedia article on the Soviet Industrialization:
“It is significant that even at the 10th congress of the Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in 1921, Lev Kamenev, the author of the report ‘About the Soviet Republic Surrounded’, stated that preparations for the Second World War, which had begun in Europe”
The Soviets knew what was coming, and knew that their only option for survival was rapid industrialization. Funnily enough, Stalin made the exact prediction of the year of invasion of the USSR in 1931:
“We are 50–100 years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they crush us.” He said this in 1931, operation Barbarossa took place in 1941.
Without the influx of workers to cities from the countryside, which was only possible with rapid collectivization, the rapid industrialization simply wouldn’t have been possible. It was literally a wartime decision, and while it had horrible outcomes (such as the famine you refer to), it proved to be the correct choice.
So you claim, that because they starved entire country worth of people “accidentaly” so it’s okay? What kind of sick fuck morality is this?
Jeus no. Nazis occupied both territories of Poland and Ukraine during ww2, and they successfully genocided jews who lived there. If they wanted to genocide slavs too, they would.
You sound as if famine that happened before war was somehow necessary part of industrializaton.
I claim that unintentional famine (famine being commonplace in that region at the time) is horrible, but less horrible than being entirely genocided by Nazis if that’s the alternative (it was).
You don’t know about Generalplan Ost?
“The Generalplan Ost (lit. ‘Master Plan for the East’), abbreviated GPO, was Nazi Germany’s plan for the settlement and “Germanization” of captured territory in Eastern Europe, involving the genocide, extermination and large-scale ethnic cleansing of Slavs, Eastern European Jews, and other indigenous peoples of Eastern Europe categorized as “Untermenschen” in Nazi ideology”
They did want to murder Slavs, and they did murder them. As a matter of fact, 27 million Soviets died during WW2, most of them being Slavs, so about twice as many Slavs were killed in the USSR alone (not counting Poland) than total Jews by Nazis. And you say the Soviets were propagandized, you didn’t even know that the Nazis explicitly wanted to genocide your own peoples and partially did. Fortunately, the brave workers, peasants and soldiers of Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Kazakhstan and all other Soviet republics managed to defeat Nazism, although at an immense cost.
It was not a necessary part in the strict sense. The point is that Soviet politicians were aware that rapid collectivization would be chaotic and have unforeseen consequences, but it was the only way to enable the rapid industrialization that was explicitly carried out with the intent of defending the USSR from the inevitable capitalist/fascist invasion. You can read this in the Wikipedia article on the Soviet Industrialization:
“It is significant that even at the 10th congress of the Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in 1921, Lev Kamenev, the author of the report ‘About the Soviet Republic Surrounded’, stated that preparations for the Second World War, which had begun in Europe”
The Soviets knew what was coming, and knew that their only option for survival was rapid industrialization. Funnily enough, Stalin made the exact prediction of the year of invasion of the USSR in 1931:
“We are 50–100 years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they crush us.” He said this in 1931, operation Barbarossa took place in 1941.
Without the influx of workers to cities from the countryside, which was only possible with rapid collectivization, the rapid industrialization simply wouldn’t have been possible. It was literally a wartime decision, and while it had horrible outcomes (such as the famine you refer to), it proved to be the correct choice.