This is a terrible take because most of the people I know who play games on hard have girlfriends because they enjoy confronting challenging and unique situations.
Given the complete online media divide that exists to solely separate and drive gender antagonisms (which is usually a small foundation of real grievances onto which a mountain of bullshit is heaped), no, not particularly.
That said, I see the same level of bullshit coming from the queer community, it just presents itself differently. So I am pretty sure nobody is ‘ok’.
Ah yes, saying that hating half the population of the world due to their gender is ‘reasonable and based’ is something an extremely reasonable person would say, for sure.
What exactly is your problem here? You’ve come out shooting both barrels to my personal criticism based on my personal experience, of a dumb meme.
Women have a much larger foundation of much larger and more serious grievances than men do, but I, weekly, hear things from straight women talking to each other such as ‘I knew he wasn’t a real man because he wanted to split the check.’ ‘Oh, I’m not a feminist, I have a boyfriend.’ or ‘Well, men don’t have real friends.’
I get it, small potatoes compared to the woman’s side ‘this man might snap and kill me.’ Not to mention the rampantremoved culture and sexual assault.
However, my point is if you want a relationship with the opposite gender to work, you have to work through your preconceptions and biases of gender and gender expression. And both sides have to want to go through that process. It can be a challenging and difficult process along which people can, and do, fuck up. And usually there is far more at stake for women when those relationships go sour.
If this is an unreasonable position to you, then great, whatever.
you say it like people hate men for the same reason men hate women
misandry isn’t real, women or even anyone who dares to not present masculine are extremely oppressed under patriarchy, and it is reactionary to attack anyone who feels resentment toward men because of that.
it’s also extremely dismissive and gross that you think there’s only a small foundation of real grievances and you need to educate yourself on patriarchy.
alright, i’m sorry to have been uncharitable; i see what you were saying with your first comment now.
Ah yes, saying that hating half the population of the world due to their gender is ‘reasonable and based’ is something an extremely reasonable person would say, for sure.
this part still bothers me though because i don’t think it’s unreasonable for the oppressed to come to the conclusion that they hate their oppressor especially when in practice that hate manifests much differently because of those roles as well, i.e. women resenting and avoiding men because of men’s hostility toward them, while men control,removed, and murder women because patriarchy teaches them that’s what they’re owed and lash out when women try to be sovereign. while i do understand now that you aren’t arguing it’s the same, comments like this one come off as dismissive and mirrors rhetoric used by MRAs to argue that men are being treated unfairly.
Given the complete online media divide that exists to solely separate and drive gender antagonisms (which is usually a small foundation of real grievances onto which a mountain of bullshit is heaped)
i also feel that this inaccurately portrays the situation as much less one-sided than it actually is. there’s a media drive to maintain patriarchy and provoke intense hatred toward women who don’t fall in line. liberals often try to portray this as a “gender war” pitting both sides against each other, when in reality one side is oppressed and the other oppresses, and by not acknowledging the power imbalance the status quo is maintained (with progressive aesthetics).
So my understanding comes from my liberal college education (whoa ho, check out the privilege on this guy), however, specifically from the like, six (?) Women and Gender Studies classes that I took, though feminist theory was actively present and presented through all of my schooling.
To preface the second comment first, because I am an asshole, but also because it will allow the discussion to flow better. I was specifically discussing things in terms of the interpersonal dynamics between individuals, and was more referring to the ‘straight male gamer’ end of things at that point in the conversation (as the question was “Are the straights alright?”), but I definitely phrased it too broadly.
Which brings me to the first comment, which is that, my schooling taught me that ‘patriarchy’ is extremely damaging to all genders, and that associating it simply with ‘men’ is reductive and (at least according to the most Marxist one I knew) reactionary. You want to hate the patriarchy, not specifically men.
I have had several, and I mean at least three to my memory, different female-presenting Woman and Gender Studies professors have it out with the class (who were on the whole on your side of the argument, also being the only man in those classes was… interesting, to say the least) over this exact topic. And those ranged from, extremely girl-boss adjacent Hillary-stan liberal teacher to marxist teachers union agitator, who did not like each other but did agree on this.
Their argument is simply that when you look at the sheer scale and amount of violence that men do to each other and to themselves, due to enforcement of patriarchal gender norms, the books aren’t quite so lopsided. This is also with the repeated family studies that show that It is just as often that it is mothers who are the strongest and most active enforcers of traditional gender norms at a young age in a household.
Now, obviously, this is all under the auspices of a patriarchal state apparatus that rewards such behaviors, so this isn’t to blame women, it is simply to say that thinking that all men are the sole oppressors is to misunderstand how patriarchy systemically perpetuates itself within individuals. It is a system perpetuated for the benefit of men in power, not for the benefit of men as a whole, that sells itself as a system that benefits both genders by giving them a defined role in society that is supposedly ‘natural’. And after all, much like racism, sexism is prejudice plus the power to enforce it.
And this also is where that pesky word ‘intersectionality’ comes in. Now, I assume at this point that the comment I was responding to was a Dworkian-esque exaggeration for affect, trying to get a rise out of me, but let’s take it seriously for a second.
If you say ‘A hatred of men is fairly reasonable and based’, then you are also saying that you hate trans-mascs, because they are, as the same user pointed out, men. It also means that you hate a Filipino man who is under debt bondage to his landlord and works for less than 5 dollars a day. It also means that you hate Hizbollah fighters who are putting their lives on the line fighting Israel. You are talking about hating 3.4 billion people, of which an extremely small and shrinking percentage enjoy the full benefits of patriarchy. Does this sound like a reasonable statement? After all, Zionist women are more than eager to hate all Muslim men. Are they correct to do so? After all, Muslim men benefit from the patriarchy. Or is it only ok if they just hate them for being men, and it is only the Muslim part that is problematic?
Anyways, idk, other than that feminist theory is pretty fucking cool shit. Alot of arguments to be had there.
Edit: Also this is how I personally know that MRA’s (both male and female) are full of shit and haven’t ever read a single book of feminist theory or ever actually talked to someone with a degree in Gender Studies, because they will say shit like “No one ever talks about men’s problems.”, when half of gender studies is discussing issues that specifically pertain to how the patriarchy affects men.
But this is usually the state of online discourse (not this one in particular, but I see this shit all the time), about well, everything. Which is one person who hasn’t read anything disagreeing with another person who hasn’t read anything, only to be corrected by a third person who also hasn’t read anything, with the person who has read something looking at the conversation going "There is so much wrong here that I don’t know where to start, so I am just going to forget I saw this and move on with my day for the sake of my sanity).
I’m a little bit phobic but I’m pretty sure OP was saying that people who enjoy confronting challenges are more likely to be able to attract a partner because they’re more interesting, not that they’re willing to take on the horrible task of making a woman happy.
A simmering anti-man hatred is totally reasonable but a reflexive and reactionary anti-man hatred is counterproductive at best.l and the least charitable interpretation of someone’s comment is often not the accurate one.
Usually involving aesthetics, particularly among white queer men (which is the community I have the most contact with). Alot of racism, body type and age shaming, particularly around hair. A valorization of fascist aesthetic presentation, but its all very Log Cabin Republican types stuff. Also, an association with aggression and energy as defining masculinity.
Not as much stuff that is particular to gender, but the amount of weird shit that they say about women can be… off putting, to say the least. Maybe it’s just my area though, idk, I live in a college town that is otherwise extremely conservative. However, most of these people are talking about shit they have seen online, so I assume it has wider reach than simply where I am.
I don’t really see it with the college aged queer people, but definitely with those who are in their mid-twenties and thirties.
Edit: Oh and alooooot of transphobia from the white queer men. Like, some even deny that trans people are real. And then supposedly there is a whole thing of bi-erasure by lesbians, but I have only heard about that anecdotally from bi women I know.
I really could have avoided this whole thing if I said “partners”, Christ. Shouldn’t have mirrored the fucking meme.
I wasn’t making a joke, I am saying relationships are difficult and most of the people I know who play games on their hardest settings are in relationships. Or maybe game difficulty setting preference has no relationship to how active one’s sex life is?
I read it how you intended for it to be read personally but that was after an initial thought of “yeah and because I need their support via co-op” (I’ll never play a subnautica unless it’s with my partner)
I genuinely wouldn’t know, as I have never actually played one, but I have watched/listened to a couple different streamers do it. It’s a perfect game for streamers, as far as I can tell, but seems extremely frustrating if you are (like many streamers) not that good at video games. Which isn’t their job, their job is to be entertaining, and this game certainly delivers that.
Like Northern Lion is a god at Issac, but his Bazaar Era was extremely fun to watch because he was extremely bad at the game, and I honestly couldn’t tell if he is trolling the audience or actually being real half the time (kinda like Jerma). Shit is funny to watch.
Streamers play up the difficulty and frustration for content. Getting Over It is like a mildly challenging 2-4 hour game. If you’re really bad at games it’s maybe more like 10 hours.
Exactly. So I am just playing into the meme, but not really a solo gamer (I pretty much only play with my friend group on a rotation of solid indie titles and friendslop).
This is a terrible take because most of the people I know who play games on hard have girlfriends because they enjoy confronting challenging and unique situations.
I play games on hard and people don’t like me in general.
This is a terrible take because most of the people I know who play games on hard have girlfriends because they enjoy confronting challenging and unique situations.
So girlfriends are the unique and challenging situations of IRL. Sorry, i have to ask, but are the straights ok?
Given the complete online media divide that exists to solely separate and drive gender antagonisms (which is usually a small foundation of real grievances onto which a mountain of bullshit is heaped), no, not particularly.
That said, I see the same level of bullshit coming from the queer community, it just presents itself differently. So I am pretty sure nobody is ‘ok’.
Hating men is actually a fairly reasonable and based stance, but go off champ.
Ah yes, saying that hating half the population of the world due to their gender is ‘reasonable and based’ is something an extremely reasonable person would say, for sure.
Cry about anti white racism next.
What exactly is your problem here? You’ve come out shooting both barrels to my personal criticism based on my personal experience, of a dumb meme.
Women have a much larger foundation of much larger and more serious grievances than men do, but I, weekly, hear things from straight women talking to each other such as ‘I knew he wasn’t a real man because he wanted to split the check.’ ‘Oh, I’m not a feminist, I have a boyfriend.’ or ‘Well, men don’t have real friends.’
I get it, small potatoes compared to the woman’s side ‘this man might snap and kill me.’ Not to mention the rampantremoved culture and sexual assault.
However, my point is if you want a relationship with the opposite gender to work, you have to work through your preconceptions and biases of gender and gender expression. And both sides have to want to go through that process. It can be a challenging and difficult process along which people can, and do, fuck up. And usually there is far more at stake for women when those relationships go sour.
If this is an unreasonable position to you, then great, whatever.
you say it like people hate men for the same reason men hate women
misandry isn’t real, women or even anyone who dares to not present masculine are extremely oppressed under patriarchy, and it is reactionary to attack anyone who feels resentment toward men because of that.
it’s also extremely dismissive and gross that you think there’s only a small foundation of real grievances and you need to educate yourself on patriarchy.
If you read through the rest of the thread, that is not what I am saying.
alright, i’m sorry to have been uncharitable; i see what you were saying with your first comment now.
this part still bothers me though because i don’t think it’s unreasonable for the oppressed to come to the conclusion that they hate their oppressor especially when in practice that hate manifests much differently because of those roles as well, i.e. women resenting and avoiding men because of men’s hostility toward them, while men control,removed, and murder women because patriarchy teaches them that’s what they’re owed and lash out when women try to be sovereign. while i do understand now that you aren’t arguing it’s the same, comments like this one come off as dismissive and mirrors rhetoric used by MRAs to argue that men are being treated unfairly.
i also feel that this inaccurately portrays the situation as much less one-sided than it actually is. there’s a media drive to maintain patriarchy and provoke intense hatred toward women who don’t fall in line. liberals often try to portray this as a “gender war” pitting both sides against each other, when in reality one side is oppressed and the other oppresses, and by not acknowledging the power imbalance the status quo is maintained (with progressive aesthetics).
So my understanding comes from my liberal college education (whoa ho, check out the privilege on this guy), however, specifically from the like, six (?) Women and Gender Studies classes that I took, though feminist theory was actively present and presented through all of my schooling.
To preface the second comment first, because I am an asshole, but also because it will allow the discussion to flow better. I was specifically discussing things in terms of the interpersonal dynamics between individuals, and was more referring to the ‘straight male gamer’ end of things at that point in the conversation (as the question was “Are the straights alright?”), but I definitely phrased it too broadly.
Which brings me to the first comment, which is that, my schooling taught me that ‘patriarchy’ is extremely damaging to all genders, and that associating it simply with ‘men’ is reductive and (at least according to the most Marxist one I knew) reactionary. You want to hate the patriarchy, not specifically men.
I have had several, and I mean at least three to my memory, different female-presenting Woman and Gender Studies professors have it out with the class (who were on the whole on your side of the argument, also being the only man in those classes was… interesting, to say the least) over this exact topic. And those ranged from, extremely girl-boss adjacent Hillary-stan liberal teacher to marxist teachers union agitator, who did not like each other but did agree on this.
Their argument is simply that when you look at the sheer scale and amount of violence that men do to each other and to themselves, due to enforcement of patriarchal gender norms, the books aren’t quite so lopsided. This is also with the repeated family studies that show that It is just as often that it is mothers who are the strongest and most active enforcers of traditional gender norms at a young age in a household.
Now, obviously, this is all under the auspices of a patriarchal state apparatus that rewards such behaviors, so this isn’t to blame women, it is simply to say that thinking that all men are the sole oppressors is to misunderstand how patriarchy systemically perpetuates itself within individuals. It is a system perpetuated for the benefit of men in power, not for the benefit of men as a whole, that sells itself as a system that benefits both genders by giving them a defined role in society that is supposedly ‘natural’. And after all, much like racism, sexism is prejudice plus the power to enforce it.
And this also is where that pesky word ‘intersectionality’ comes in. Now, I assume at this point that the comment I was responding to was a Dworkian-esque exaggeration for affect, trying to get a rise out of me, but let’s take it seriously for a second.
If you say ‘A hatred of men is fairly reasonable and based’, then you are also saying that you hate trans-mascs, because they are, as the same user pointed out, men. It also means that you hate a Filipino man who is under debt bondage to his landlord and works for less than 5 dollars a day. It also means that you hate Hizbollah fighters who are putting their lives on the line fighting Israel. You are talking about hating 3.4 billion people, of which an extremely small and shrinking percentage enjoy the full benefits of patriarchy. Does this sound like a reasonable statement? After all, Zionist women are more than eager to hate all Muslim men. Are they correct to do so? After all, Muslim men benefit from the patriarchy. Or is it only ok if they just hate them for being men, and it is only the Muslim part that is problematic?
Anyways, idk, other than that feminist theory is pretty fucking cool shit. Alot of arguments to be had there.
Edit: Also this is how I personally know that MRA’s (both male and female) are full of shit and haven’t ever read a single book of feminist theory or ever actually talked to someone with a degree in Gender Studies, because they will say shit like “No one ever talks about men’s problems.”, when half of gender studies is discussing issues that specifically pertain to how the patriarchy affects men.
But this is usually the state of online discourse (not this one in particular, but I see this shit all the time), about well, everything. Which is one person who hasn’t read anything disagreeing with another person who hasn’t read anything, only to be corrected by a third person who also hasn’t read anything, with the person who has read something looking at the conversation going "There is so much wrong here that I don’t know where to start, so I am just going to forget I saw this and move on with my day for the sake of my sanity).
Removed by mod
Ah, the transmisogynist classic, calling a trans woman a terf when she’s mean to men after they have made a boomer ass ball and chain joke.
I’m a little bit
phobic but I’m pretty sure OP was saying that people who enjoy confronting challenges are more likely to be able to attract a partner because they’re more interesting, not that they’re willing to take on the horrible task of making a woman happy.
A simmering anti-man hatred is totally reasonable but a reflexive and reactionary anti-man hatred is counterproductive at best.l and the least charitable interpretation of someone’s comment is often not the accurate one.
I didn’t make a ball and chain joke, I wasn’t really making any particular jokes.
I’d like to sincerely apologize for posting that.
Removed by mod
To equate being born with a penis with being a man is a textbook case of transphobia.
Ok.
Yes, it’s ok to call out transphobes. Enjoy your ban Harry Potter.
Hey, shut the fuck up, the comment wasn’t directed at you.
Actually curious, what same level bs do you see coming from the queer community?
Usually involving aesthetics, particularly among white queer men (which is the community I have the most contact with). Alot of racism, body type and age shaming, particularly around hair. A valorization of fascist aesthetic presentation, but its all very Log Cabin Republican types stuff. Also, an association with aggression and energy as defining masculinity.
Not as much stuff that is particular to gender, but the amount of weird shit that they say about women can be… off putting, to say the least. Maybe it’s just my area though, idk, I live in a college town that is otherwise extremely conservative. However, most of these people are talking about shit they have seen online, so I assume it has wider reach than simply where I am.
I don’t really see it with the college aged queer people, but definitely with those who are in their mid-twenties and thirties.
Edit: Oh and alooooot of transphobia from the white queer men. Like, some even deny that trans people are real. And then supposedly there is a whole thing of bi-erasure by lesbians, but I have only heard about that anecdotally from bi women I know.
kindly shut the fuck up
I really could have avoided this whole thing if I said “partners”, Christ. Shouldn’t have mirrored the fucking meme.
I wasn’t making a joke, I am saying relationships are difficult and most of the people I know who play games on their hardest settings are in relationships. Or maybe game difficulty setting preference has no relationship to how active one’s sex life is?
I read it how you intended for it to be read personally but that was after an initial thought of “yeah and because I need their support via co-op” (I’ll never play a subnautica unless it’s with my partner)
i actually play games on hard because i hate myself, specifically
So you basically mainline Bennet Foddy games?
Bennett Foddy games are the perfect balance of challenging, unforgiving, and not actually that difficult. A lot like dark souls 1 and 3. I love them
I genuinely wouldn’t know, as I have never actually played one, but I have watched/listened to a couple different streamers do it. It’s a perfect game for streamers, as far as I can tell, but seems extremely frustrating if you are (like many streamers) not that good at video games. Which isn’t their job, their job is to be entertaining, and this game certainly delivers that.
Like Northern Lion is a god at Issac, but his Bazaar Era was extremely fun to watch because he was extremely bad at the game, and I honestly couldn’t tell if he is trolling the audience or actually being real half the time (kinda like Jerma). Shit is funny to watch.
Streamers play up the difficulty and frustration for content. Getting Over It is like a mildly challenging 2-4 hour game. If you’re really bad at games it’s maybe more like 10 hours.
Exactly. So I am just playing into the meme, but not really a solo gamer (I pretty much only play with my friend group on a rotation of solid indie titles and friendslop).
I play games on hard and people don’t like me in general.
They’re jealous
Yeah, that can be the case too, but I am not usually friends with those people, because they tend to be difficult to be friends with.
You don’t need to rub salt in the wound, I was just giving a counter example.
I’m sorry for phrasing it like a grill-pill!