Once more let me remind you what fascism is. It need not wear a brown shirt or a green shirt – it may even wear a dress shirt. Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege.
— Tommy Douglas
None of your beef with each other matters if democracy disappears.
What democracy? You have got to be kidding me. Previously:
It’s not wrong to say regulatory capture is a problem, it just doesn’t go far enough. The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
The game is rigged. The election cycle’s pomp and circumstance is to divert your energy and attention from the fact that it’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.
I doubt the meaning of the word was deliberately and/or consciously changed.
I blame the US two-party system for this, which has a timeline where
the two political parties did not just shift, but switched places.
The US democratic party has gone from being far-right,
to democratic socialist (left-wing), to center-right/right-wing and
currently going back to democratic socialist.
Fascism and liberalism are the same fucking system. What you think of as the difference is actually the DISTANCE between you and the “frontier”. Inside the core of fascism is liberalism. On the boundary of liberalism is fascism.
What did liberal America do to black people? Fascism. What did liberal America do to indigenous people? Fascism.
What did liberal Europe do to Haiti? Fascism.
What did liberal Europe do to Africa? Fascism.
What did liberal Europe do to Southeast Asia. Fascism?
What did liberal America do to The Phillipines? Fascism.
Liberalism is inherently a conservative ideology. Liberalism doesn’t mean “not hating gay people”. The progressive and leftist movements within a dual capitalist two party system have worked within the Democratic party to achieve incremental improvements. It’s why you think “liberal” means “left leaning”. It does not.
The Republicans and Democrats are both “Liberals” and they are both currently supporting the rise of fascism in their own unique role.
Please go look up what the rest of the entire world means when they say “Liberal”. Then you might be capable of having the vocabulary to understand this conversation.
Conservatism was a specific response to liberalism. Liberalism said power comes from private property. Conservatism said power comes from the sovereign.
lmao what on earth do you think unity among groups whose core positions are diametrically opposed looks like.
Usually in the US this logic is not about building an even slightly coherent coalition where there is something on the table for each group. Instead it is a nagging and attempt to shame people who are developing a political consciousness (not to mention conscience) into simply supporting the capitalist right wing status quo. Everyone with left principals has already correctly stepped away from that game entirely.
Let’s make it simple: what policy position are you giving to the Zionists and anti-Zionists, people whose sole descriptors are antithetical. Remember, the status quo state policies are Zionist, so doing nothing is not neutral.
what policy position are you giving to the Zionists and anti-Zionists, people whose sole descriptors are antithetical
Presumably these people have something else they care about in their life. Like preserving basic human rights and not getting put in a concentration camp.
Their were a lot of Nazis who were brainwashed and thought Germany was just defending itself. Their are a lot of MAGA who are just brainwashed and think Trump is saving democracy.
They will fight the fascists and maybe in the process learn the error of their ways.
Okay so you can’t even see that Zionists are openly supporting and aiding in genocide. Because that sure as shit is not basic human rights, and the entire population is in a concentration camp at this point.
As I said in the other comment, what you think of as a difference between fascism and not fascism is actually the DISTANCE between your position in the core of fascism and the boundary/periphery/frontier of fascism.
A neoliberal corporate funded dark money group like “thirdway” fighting DSA is “infighting”?
My friend. At a certain point you gotta realize that these groups aren’t “fighting fascist”. They are literally there to exist as offering “the only reasonable defense against fascism” while spending all their time attacking to their left.
The are about as socialist as “national socialism”. Don’t pretend this is infighting. The left in America is United behind DSA. Even the twitter ultras are admitting that DSA is at least building class consciousness within the masses. Hell, the anarchist aren’t even crying that much and still doing good work on the streets as they always do. There is very little infighting. The Democratic establishment and groups like “thirdway” are not our allies. They will let Trump kill us all before they let capitalism lose ground.
If you’re defending these centrist Democrats and their propaganda groups like thirdway; you aren’t infighting with other leftist. You are supporting the fascism and falling for their “being reasonable” messaging. You are not “on the left” in any sense of the word. “Being reasonable” in the face of fascism literally just means allow it to keep its strength. You don’t stop fascism by being reasonable with the fascist.
Liberals are not leftists, centrists are fucking brain dead, pro Israel centrists even more so. What we have in this country is a gross perversion of democracy sold to us by corporations and paid off politicians.
Anyone who can’t recognize that and work with actual leftists to curb it, are actually the ones handing everything over to fascism. This status quo “most important election of our lifetimes” bullshit just keeps the pendulum swinging.
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Then unify behind the left.
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So unify behind the left. They won’t vote for your genocidal shit anymore.
“In order to stop fascism, leftists need to ally with genocidal fascists, otherwise it’s leftist infighting”
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Oh ok, if they’re only genocidal, racial supremacist, expansionist apartheid state that’s fine to ally with them. You fucking idiot.
You lost me at cooporating with Zionists. They’re literally modern day Nazis and the cause of most of our biggest issues.
i.e. fascists
I’d rather saw my own head off than work with a Zionazi.
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I don’t think you know what any of those words mean.
There can be no unity under capitalism
Every single time fascism has taken over, it is because liberals sided with fascists against socialists.
Once more let me remind you what fascism is. It need not wear a brown shirt or a green shirt – it may even wear a dress shirt. Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege.
— Tommy Douglas
What democracy? You have got to be kidding me. Previously:
Liberals are not left and most US democrats are liberals and not even social liberals,
which is the centrist position within capitalist democracy.
They pervert the word.
I doubt the meaning of the word was deliberately and/or consciously changed.
I blame the US two-party system for this, which has a timeline where
the two political parties did not just shift, but switched places.
The US democratic party has gone from being far-right,
to democratic socialist (left-wing), to center-right/right-wing and
currently going back to democratic socialist.
It was deliberately perverted. The bourgeoisie own the government, the media, and the NGOs; and they know what they’re doing.
Fascism and liberalism are the same fucking system. What you think of as the difference is actually the DISTANCE between you and the “frontier”. Inside the core of fascism is liberalism. On the boundary of liberalism is fascism.
What did liberal America do to black people? Fascism. What did liberal America do to indigenous people? Fascism.
What did liberal Europe do to Haiti? Fascism.
What did liberal Europe do to Africa? Fascism.
What did liberal Europe do to Southeast Asia. Fascism?
What did liberal America do to The Phillipines? Fascism.
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It’s the mix of total ignorance and complete smug confidence that makes you people so loathsome.
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Wow, “No, U!”? Fucking good one
Liberalism is inherently a conservative ideology. Liberalism doesn’t mean “not hating gay people”. The progressive and leftist movements within a dual capitalist two party system have worked within the Democratic party to achieve incremental improvements. It’s why you think “liberal” means “left leaning”. It does not.
The Republicans and Democrats are both “Liberals” and they are both currently supporting the rise of fascism in their own unique role.
Please go look up what the rest of the entire world means when they say “Liberal”. Then you might be capable of having the vocabulary to understand this conversation.
You don’t understand history then.
Conservatism was a specific response to liberalism. Liberalism said power comes from private property. Conservatism said power comes from the sovereign.
Fascism protects private property
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Study history. Both Italy and Germany protected ownership rights and did not establish a return to an individual sovereign nor an aristocracy.
You are operating from vibes, not reality. Fascism as you know it has literally only ever emerged from a liberal democracy
Capitalism makes the rich the dictators, fascism just drops the facade
democrats are not the left.
(and soviet socialism was the one to defeat nazism last time)
lmao what on earth do you think unity among groups whose core positions are diametrically opposed looks like.
Usually in the US this logic is not about building an even slightly coherent coalition where there is something on the table for each group. Instead it is a nagging and attempt to shame people who are developing a political consciousness (not to mention conscience) into simply supporting the capitalist right wing status quo. Everyone with left principals has already correctly stepped away from that game entirely.
Let’s make it simple: what policy position are you giving to the Zionists and anti-Zionists, people whose sole descriptors are antithetical. Remember, the status quo state policies are Zionist, so doing nothing is not neutral.
Presumably these people have something else they care about in their life. Like preserving basic human rights and not getting put in a concentration camp.
Zionists very explicit don’t care about preserving basic human rights.
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Their were a lot of Nazis who were brainwashed and thought Germany was just defending itself. Their are a lot of MAGA who are just brainwashed and think Trump is saving democracy.
They’re currently fighting for fascists
Okay so you can’t even see that Zionists are openly supporting and aiding in genocide. Because that sure as shit is not basic human rights, and the entire population is in a concentration camp at this point.
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So much for your “respect for basic human rights”
Pure selfishness disguised as a political position.
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Like I said, pure selfishness disguised a political ideology: you would have supported the holocaust so long as you benifited
No, actually, Israel’s fate is directly tied to the US’s fate, and the US’s to Israel, because Israel is the 51st state.
Why do you think all the fascists love Israel and crack down on anyone who opposed its genocide?
It’s all one empire.
As I said in the other comment, what you think of as a difference between fascism and not fascism is actually the DISTANCE between your position in the core of fascism and the boundary/periphery/frontier of fascism.
You are not on our side. You’re a scratched liberal who has already sided with the fascists.
I guess I’m the first person to tell you what Zionism is? Because their whole thing is ethnic cleansing and concentration camps.
are you high?
A neoliberal corporate funded dark money group like “thirdway” fighting DSA is “infighting”?
My friend. At a certain point you gotta realize that these groups aren’t “fighting fascist”. They are literally there to exist as offering “the only reasonable defense against fascism” while spending all their time attacking to their left.
The are about as socialist as “national socialism”. Don’t pretend this is infighting. The left in America is United behind DSA. Even the twitter ultras are admitting that DSA is at least building class consciousness within the masses. Hell, the anarchist aren’t even crying that much and still doing good work on the streets as they always do. There is very little infighting. The Democratic establishment and groups like “thirdway” are not our allies. They will let Trump kill us all before they let capitalism lose ground.
If you’re defending these centrist Democrats and their propaganda groups like thirdway; you aren’t infighting with other leftist. You are supporting the fascism and falling for their “being reasonable” messaging. You are not “on the left” in any sense of the word. “Being reasonable” in the face of fascism literally just means allow it to keep its strength. You don’t stop fascism by being reasonable with the fascist.
Liberals are not leftists, centrists are fucking brain dead, pro Israel centrists even more so. What we have in this country is a gross perversion of democracy sold to us by corporations and paid off politicians.
Anyone who can’t recognize that and work with actual leftists to curb it, are actually the ones handing everything over to fascism. This status quo “most important election of our lifetimes” bullshit just keeps the pendulum swinging.
You didn’t read a single one of the replies to your post.
But muh “divide & conquer…!”