This graphic triggers me so hard. Take that PhD away from him.
There are way more chromasomal schemes and also I think body hair and breast size should be scrapped
…but why does it trigger you?
Because the bottom bar breaks vertical alignment with the other bars
…Ah! I just understood. Thanks.
Its so …unusual that they would do that. Why would they do that anyways?
I think each end of the normal-sized bars is calibrated to be the median for female/male traits respectively, so “all fine” would be abnormally feminine even compared to most women? Or they just messed up the formatting
Well they probably u should have added a warning that ‘it was abnormal for even a woman to be all fine and therefore we NEED to extend the bar to abnomal lengths’
~Gender is not binary~
Gender cannot be expressed as a 1 bit value
I find it odd that we have advanced how complex our understanding of human beings and gender are and yet…we STILL have old timey days levels of designatiin when it comes to determining a person’s gender ? Why?
We literslly have technologies that we can use to help a person transition from one gender to another or even to help them become more like the non-binary person they really are with different hormones! And different sugeries!..and yet…we still have this binary , well-overdue designation when it comes to understanding gender!?
Back im the past a person would burn at the stake the suggestion that such a tjing as ‘hormones’ exist or even at the suggestion of a mosaic model of gender, gender expression , and sexuality…and yet…most humans stilll drag on this neolithic barbaric format when it comes to understanding modern gender, gender expressions and sexuality?!
We outnumber the capitalists, we always have and we always will, so I dont see why WE aent the ones who are dictating how WE define , format , understand, and deeper research things like gender, gender expressions, sexuality, and even other concepts relating the mosaic models of human categorization that we havent begun to even research yet!
And I say this as a cis-male who was rsised with that very binary, outdated, ‘oNlY mAlE AnD fEmAle’ model of gender. I was actually somewhat shocked when I was presented this mosaic model relating to the mosaic model of gender and sexuality and human categorization because this is only the SURFACE! We can go deeper!
Cause like think about it : With the mosaic model of gende r, sexuality, and human expression w e are merely scratching the SURFACE of things relating to gender snd sexuality and human expression . We have learned more about the human brain in the last 30 years alone than we have in the last like 500 or 1000 or whatever millenia…what is to say that we are not going to do the same when it comes to gender, sexuality and human expression in the next 30 years? Heck there could be like a 3D or even 4D Mosaic Model that finally accurately , undeniably, falsifiably defines ALL of human gender, sexuality and expression!..
Maybe Im getting a bit too ahead of myself with the 4D model lol but I do think we can all agree that our current understanding of gender, sexuality and human expression and even social relations betwween different people of different genders is being held back by letting ourselves be controlled by capitalists who only want to research new weapons to more effectively vaporize Palestinians, Venezuelans, Colombians, Cubans , and Sudanese … 😐 We gotta end that first!
I don’t think cavemen had this exact gender binary idea you’re referring to. At some point, we decided things should be like this. Like marriage. Inheritance. Gender binary also probably is an idea that manifested later on.
actually youre right. It was only when fuedalistic societies starting forming and and non-males were increasingly seen as. ‘objects to prodice more soldiers , hiers, and more workers’ and were increasingly put under the control of patriarchal men and even non-males who betrayed their own non-male allies did this binary idea become more convenient for the fuedalists to adopt. ANd so…
Thats what they went along with and most of us went along with it.
Back inthe neolithic era there probably wasnt even a rigid classification for gender. If you were born intersex or agenderd you woulsd probably just get treated like which of your genstalia mattered the most or based on what your mother or her mother’s mother said about people who were intersex.
You just described patriarch…
We outnumber the capitalists, we always have and we always will, so I dont see why WE aent the ones who are dictating jow we define , format , understand, and deeper research things like…
A simple word: organisation
the people dont eben want to be organized in any way.
The people dont give a fuck about a society that doesnt give a fuck about them so why would they do ANYTHING to improve it? Pft!
You sound like teenager stamping their feet.
but its the truth.
Who in the their right mind give a damn about something or someone that doesnt give a damn about them?
If socialists actually put in A LOOOT of effort to demonstrate that they gave a damn about the disenfranchised people they come into contact with then it would certainly convince much more people to also become socialists too, right?
I feel that with humans what you give is what you get.
This is why so many people are incressingly becoming disenfranchized by modern societies , cause the capitalist system , governmenral officials and representatives are decreasingly working to benefit most of proletariat. The second the people raise enough of a ruckus the bourgeoisie begin enabling the people to have more freedoms , treats , bread and circuses . We saw this hppen in the 1950s in nirth america and in the 1960s in europe , and the in the 1980s in europe. And the majority of people in turn start loving capitalism again. This is a cycle that has happened throughout history. b
An will happen again and again until the people choose to break our current system and FINALLY create egalitarian, humanistic , and communistic societies once and for all.
As a Blackadder fan, I’m struggling with this because of Nursie.
Out you popped, out of your mummies tumpkin and everyone shouted : “It’s a boy, it’s a boy!”. And somebody said “but it hasn’t got a winkle!”. And then I said “A boy without a winkle? God be praised, it is a miracle. A boy without a winkle!” And then Sir Thomas More pointed out that a boy without a winkle is a girl. And everyone was really disappointed.
As evidenced by:
And:
I’m part way through the article, and its a fascinating read, and very well explained
I think its interesting how people tie themselves into knots with the whole binary male/female with convoluted descriptions of large small gametes defining gender (I’m particularly thinking of jk rowlings tweet and all the terf stuff)
I can see how binary definitions can never adequately reflect the complexity of an individuals internal experience. And also the designation of male/female is a social construct than biological reality
I am a late in life diagnosed autistic woman, my experience of reality will always differ from someone who doesn’t have sensory issues because of my autism. I’ve had my mother, teachers and friends deny my experiences of reality because it doesn’t match theirs. It seems barbaric to apply outdated social constructs to something as varied and complex as a human being
I think I may be waffling, but TLDR thanks for the link, its helping me understand things more clearly
Edit, just finished reading it now, and I love how it suggests using the description of a “mosaic” definition of gender as opposed to binary or spectrum
Really good article
First I have to say is Im sorry for the barbarity snd fascism you faced cause of your autism 🫂
Also I read this from you and it made me think of something . I find it odd that we have advanced how complex our understanding of human beings and gender are and yet…we STILL have caveman days levels of designatiin when it comes to determining a person’s gender ? Why?
We literslly have technologies that we can use to help a person transition from one gender to another or even to help them become more like the non-binary person they really are with different hormones! And different sugeries!..and yet…we still have this binary caveman designation when it comes to understanding gender!?
Back im the neolithic days a person would burn at the stake the suggestion that such a tjing as ‘hormones’ exist or even at the suggestion of a mosaic model of gender, gender expression , and sexuality…and yet…most humans stilll drag on this neolithic barbaric format when it comes to understanding modern gender, gender expressions and sexuality?!
We outnumber the capitalists, we always have and we always will, so I dont see why WE aent the ones who are dictating jow we define , format , understand, and deeper research things like gender, gender expressions, sexuality, and even other concepts relating the mosaic models of human categorization that we havent begun to even imagine yet!
And I say this as a cis-male who was rsised with that very binary, caveman, oooga boooga ‘oNlY mAlE AnD fEmAle’ model of gender. I was actually somewhat shocked when I was presented this mosaic model relating to the mosaic model of gender and sexuality and human categorization. And this is only thr SURFACE! We can go deeper!
Cause like think about it : With the mosaic model of gende r, sexuality, and human expression w e are merely scratching the SURFACE of things relating to gender snd sexuality and human expression . We have learned more about the human brain in the last 30 years alone than we have in the last like 500 or 1000 or whatever millenia…what is to say that we are not going to do the same when it comes to gender, sxuality and human expression in the next 30 years? Heck there could be like a 3D or even 4D Mosaic Model that finally accurately , undeniably, falsifiably defines ALL of human gender, sexuality and expression!
Maybe Im getting a bit too ahead of myself with the 4D model lol but I do think we can all agree that our current understanding of gender, sexuality and human expression and even social relations betwween different people of different genders is being held back by letting ourselves be controlled by capitalists who only want to research new weapoms to more effectively vaporize Palestinians, Colombians, Cubans , and Sudanese … 😐 We gotta end that!
I think its funny that you mention us still having cavemen levels of designated gender, I’ve seen references to neolithic and Neanderthal people as being less rigid, example skeletons buried with weapons or hunting equipment designated male until DNA shows they’re female, also bodies of tattooed female shamans. I can’t point you in the direction of any links yet (I’m in a hospital right now) but I think its assumed that child care, “womens work” keeping the home fire burning and the food cooking was more of a joint community effort with both male/female involvement
Perhaps our ancestors were more accepting of the natural mosiac of gender and sexuality than we are now?
I think the dogma of the Church has destroyed a lot of natural rhythms of human nature, the whole “its Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” strict gender roles/rules and misogyny, which is ironic as Jesus was always about love your neighbour, do unto others, let he who is without sin etc And let’s face it he probably had a wife and female disciples
Its always about power and control to stop the majority overthrowing the rich minority, then as now
So fucking sad
Ya youre right. Apparently in some Oceania tribes in the past and even in India surprisingly non-binary genders were accepted by most people of those societies. I do remember reading an archaeological study where they examined the skeletons of men and women who died violent deaths in the neolitihic era and they found that surprisingly practicslly all prehistoric tribes had men AND women (and probanly non binary people too) who died violent deaths through murder, warfare, and through animal hunts that went wrong where the animal overpowered and charged deep into the person with so much force that it shattered the person’s bones in almost equal numbers.
I think it was capitalism and feudalism actuallt are the things that played bigger role than religion in creating the patriarchal, rigidly conservative and ‘shameful of sociosexuality and expression’ societies thatt most of us live in today . I feel that the bourgeoisie of both of these eras knew that they could make it easoer to make more slaves , moake more soldiers, and more easily control the disenfranchised members of the proletariat if they repeatedly drilled deep into us that that is how our societies oughta run and how we should view gender and we chose to go along with it. It was a decision that has been to our detriment…
And dont get me wrong, I know that religious extremism has caused the needless death, ostracizions, alienations, and suffering of billiins of peoples , ESPECIALLY non-males. Though personally I feel it is actually that class warfare that has always been more important than religious warfare within a society and even between different societies in spurring these barbaric things we did to each other. I feel that the bourgeoisie simply knew that they could use religion as just another tool to cause control over us AND to cause conflict between different members of the proletariat class… But I dont view religion as THE almighty factor that has led to the world we have today. I see the biggest factors as our complacency to accept the bullshit that the bourgeoisie keep on telling us AND the existence of the bourgeoisie. Even in neolithic era people had religion for the most part, not the massive abrahamic religions we see today but rather things like paganism , animalism, odinism, things like that . And these religions were not able to prevent humans from eventually saying ‘Screw it ! I know we’re all very differemt but , let’s work together and build together to create large agricultural societies’ . It is simply when agricultural societies began to form with many slaves and soldiers did a few members of the proletariat start to realize that they can create dynastic monarchies that hold the majority of society with an iron grip through tricknology , cunning wordplay, and displays of militant and even genocidal bravado. And with the creations of these numerous bourgeoisies and their many bribed pig bodyguards did the creation of patriarchal society come into existence since men were seen as the more violent , more militant and ‘stronger’ of our species so these men were also seen as useful tools to use by the bourgeoisie to keep non-males in check. And with the creation of a patriarchal , dictatorship of the bourgeoisie which we still live in today so did we FINALLY see the binary model of gender. Yet another tool for control by the bourgeoisie. which theyve used to tell non-males that they have to always be ‘subjugated’ to their male counterparts AND to tell women that the only way a woman can become a '‘tRuE wOmAn’ s by ‘sTArtIng A fAmiLy’ and ‘DoInG AlL ThE HoUsewOrK aNd ChiLd CaRe FoR hEr MeN’ and to always ‘tUrN yOur Kid InTo AnoThEr NatiOnaLisTic SlavE Or SolDiEr For thE empIrE’
And yup when you think about it all carefully enough… you start to see how its always been bullshit from the extrremely rich and politically connected minority to control the anger and violence that the majority oughta have towards them to overthrow them and to prevent the creation of a truly egalitarian , equitable, and inclusive humanistic societu rather than the current bullshit capitalistic and feudalistic ones.
Biblically accurate sex
That was a good read
It makes me think why has noone put it together like this before, but then biology isn’t my specialism.
the thing is that we have learned more about the humanbrain in the last 30 years alone than we have in that last hundreds of millenia… Who is to say we arent holding ourselves back to further understanding things like gender, sexuality , and gender expressions?!
We HAD the ability to learn more about the brain and to further define and understand the machinations and constructiom and osychology of the brain all those years ago…
BUT we chose ro get held back by the fuedalists and mercantilists. We let them define to us what the brain is and we all just went along with it. Back in the day the heart was determined to be the centre and controller of all the body’s functions cause the fuedalists put out that narrative and we all chose to go along with it… We now know that its MUUUCH more complex than that and that NO the heart is not the primary controller of the body’s fuctions , it simply oumps blood and oxygen and other vital fluids different parts of the body that are in need…
Today we are choosing to get held back by the capitalists…
Who knows? Without them we may have a falsifiable Mosaic Model Of Gender and Gender Expression that blows our socks off and looks NOTHING like what we have today and is a trillion times more accurate and inclusive!
Thats probablt why nobody has been able to put it out yet or research it. Maybe the people who came up with a similar model in the past were executed by their slavedrivers or they were eternally silenced from public media and mutilated so they could not voice what they thought on the matter. MAybe The CIAor CSCI or Mi6 or whatever these other special ops mercenary , class traitor prganizations are called probably killed off a researcher or group of researchers in the past that did in fact come up with this same model and wanted it to be published!?
I kept telling people in Reddit comments, but I’m only a microbiologist, so I didn’t feel qualified to get all the details right.
I’ve read that women’s skin is elastic along two axes while men’s skin is elastic along only one axis. Is true, or variable across a spectrum, or simply false?
We have to look at rhe science of that. Cause that sounds interesting bit I have yet to encounter a single study covering a topic like that!
The fact that we arent researching things like this and are instead choosong to research how to make more explosive nuclear weapons to blow each other up has got to stop!
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I think probably physical gender is binary
That’s an interesting reply to make with no further details, in response to an article that directly contradicts you.
I’m tired, so I’m not looking it up but iirc intersex is WAY more fucking common than you think and there are SO MANY ways it can happen. It’s not very rare outliers, but people also fuckin mutilate their kids over that shit and plenty of stupid shit so here we are thinking it’s like .01% of people.
Anecdotally, one of my friends eventually discovered through a lot of digging that he was very literally assigned female at birth, as he was born intersex and surgically “corrected” at birth without even his parents being told. They only discovered it when the family did DNA tests for some family history thing.
Ya there is that one guy Brian D. Earp who talked about how babies who are born intersex are mutilated like its nothing to assign them a certain sex . And then of course we have babies that are born with perfectly healthy genatalia who are also mutilated like its nothing. THATS what happened to me. And to so many other babies in our world today as I type this…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQQTIpBWqvY
The thing that makes me think is that these are such MAAASSIVE issues and yet most of society chooses to …sweep them under the rug?..Why?
Why are we choosing to not confromt such important issues right now?! Why not before?! What are we doing!?
Rare, sure, but keep in mind that even a 0.2% incidence rate means that 16 million people wouldn’t fit the binary gender model. And that’s the most conservative estimate for the condition given in the article. 6% puts it closer to half a billion people.
That’s what I took from it as well 0.2 is 1 in 500, ok its quite a lot, but 6% is just over 1 in 16 people.
And the sad truth is that we dont even know if its 0.1 or 0.2% or even higher than 6% cause we are curreently choosing not to and have not chosen to research the commonality and impact of this type of person being born deeper.
We are for some reason choosing to be stuck on these estimates when we should be trying to be as caring and exact as possible, ESPECIALLY when it comes to a babie’s gender and their bodily autonomy!
The outliers are the exception that prove the rule though. The very fact that intersex people exist at all shows that the physical process of inducing the development of sexual characteristics is complicated and messy, and not a simple switch. It’s just that evolution has fine-tuned the process enough that in the majority of cases it leads to people who are within ranges that can be considered “wholly male” or “wholly female”. So the sexual binary model isn’t useless, but it’s important to be aware that it is just a model and not reality.
Indeed its a model. A somewhat accurate model. BUT An outdated one
Like I think about it like this .
We have newton’s model of the gravitational equation, right? Its just a model .A somewhat accurate model… But An outdated model.
…Then we have Einstein’s… which is far more accurate.
And who knows? Who is to say thar einstein’s model is COMPLETELY accurate? There could be faults in it we havent encountered yet
That’s true. But also, for 99.9% of physics problems people use day to day, Newton’s model works great.
If people need the “relativistic model” of gender to understand their own situation, i.e. if they’re intersex, thats great and im glad thats available. But theres no need for people to account for relativity if they’re just trying to determine how fast a pendulum is swinging or something, and if someone meets the generally accepted definition of male or female biological sex (which 99.9% of people do), i dont think there’s much need to complicate things.
I actually think youre correct and that we oughta rely on such complex models only whhen the person in question is a person with a very complex gender identity since easily 90% or 80% of hukans obviously fall under the easily understandable binary model .
Physics and biology are two very differenr fields.
Physics equation dont care about the livelihood of the object theyre involved in
…The equations of biology do worry about suchbthings . In biology you deal with animate , beings and even with species that are comprised of numerous ither species. Like the human gut’s immune system is comprised mostly of non-human cells interestingly
…Though I do wonder if future research will actually prove to us that the mosaic models of gender have to start being applied to EVERYONE because it turns out that most people fit into all types of genders, and forms of gender expression…
When humanity decides that it is time for us to prioritize other things than bombing and ostracizing Iranians , and dubai chocolates and getting a newer , more gas -guzzling car every year maybe we’ll finally be able to find out…
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This is a science community that should be open to reasoned and reasonable debate, the moderator that removed my reply has no scientific education and no place here.
If youre going to debate CITE research of your own. Dont just come in with random opinions with little research backing them.
The point of scientific debate is that YOUR science is larger and /or more rigorous than your opponent’s thus proving thst youre probably more correct on the matter than they are.
If someone or I say ‘im the reincarnation of Mao-Tse-Tung!’ , does anybody hare have to believe me unless I can prove it? How would I be able to prove that without medical records that prove that it is the undeniable truth?
But you do not know what my original response was because it was removed, is that what your proposal is? To remove any counter views without any discourse at all. Is that your idea of debate within a community or how research is reviewed.
I actuallt saw your first message before it was deleted and I also saw that you didnt cite a single thing to prove your point so thats enough to convince me that you were talking garbage.
Let me be clear what your muddled posts are stating, in a discussion forum like Lemmy your opinion is that it is good practice to remove reasoned alternative views which run counter to general opinion and any comments without citations are garbage. I think that is an admittance that your own ideas cannot stand scrutiny.
No I said if you come in with a countersrgumrnt or series of counterarguments to a researcher’s ideas you need to come in with citations or resesrch that is more rigourous or has more subjects or both than the researchers’. If you have ANYTHING that you can cite to twerk in her?! Please do it. NEVER bbe afraid to prove others wrong when you have the citations to do it.
I cant make ANY effective counteraguments against this lady even though I do disagree eith her in some things because
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I have no degree , award, or tutelage in the fields of gender studies or biology , or whatever else field is covered in the artcile.
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I have no research I can cite to shut her up.
…So she has won an eternal victory over me and pretty much. everyone else here until I csn prove otherwise. Or until anyone else proves her wrong
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We can still read your comment in the mod log (I’m not mod, regular users like me can see it). It’s not rigurous, it’s not sharing any sources, it’s just speculation, and while personally I don’t mind speculation in general, this is clearly a very sensitive issue for lots of folks. At any rate, if you wanna be able to have a good faith debate it’s good to share sources, especially with complicated, sensitive topics like this. It also helps if in addition to sources you make sure to show empathy towards people who might be dealing with crap due to the broader assumptions around the topic (in this case mainly intersex people, to a lesser degree also trans people) just so everyone will relax and understand that you do wanna talk in good faith. I believe you do, but we’re all anonymous strangers here and we’re so used to reading reactionary trolls, so a lot of people understandably won’t give you the benefit of the doubt.
