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this is my first comment here, just wanted to say that it’s so nice to find a corner of the internet where i can be an openly vegan communist and vibe with similar ppl. I’m so tired of tiptoeing around “based” carnists that go full chud once you eat a veggie burger in front of them or ask them to not be speciesist. sorry for the mushy comment but ty yall 😭
Unfortunately we have those people here too. But yeah, the fact that like 30% of people here won’t go full chud against vegans is an improvement
the meme: “you’re just lazy, right?”
the comments: “how dare you call me lazy, I actually enjoy hurting others”can someone please explain why vegans are allowed to engage in sectarian gatekeeping? Anarchists and MLs are rightly prevented from fighting about who is and isn’t a real leftist, that should extend to vegan users not saying we’re not real leftists for eating meat or using animal products.
Because the difference between anarchists and communists is one of strategy while the difference between vegans and bloodmouths is wanting to cause suffering for selfish reasons. It’s not sectarian.
And no. If you’re not following your ethics to the ultimate conclusion and still have a strain of “I deserve the exploits of others suffering” in you, then you’re not actually a leftist.
oh so Cuba, Viet Nam, China, the USSR, the DPRK, the Paris commune… all are or were vegan? funny how that bit gets left out of the history books
Folks used the same argument here early on during trans struggle sessions and we correctly adopted the position that to be leftist your need to be pro-trans.
Also we are obviously talking about current conditions.
Vegans aren’t a marginalized group of people, they aren’t being genocided by Evangelical fascists, full fucking stop
Trans people deserve to be considered a protected class here, vegans don’t
Vegans are arguing about the oppression of animals, not themselves. Animals are being genocided, and in the most extreme way seen in history.
This is a poor analogy. Vegans are not the exploited party they are simply the ones who match their morals with actions.
I think the idea is that the other creatures, like animals bred in captivity for their meat, are the ones which aren’t protected. Vegans don’t seem to speak for them (as say, a liberal might for a marginalized group while denying them their voice) rather use inductive reasoning to reflect contradictions in meat-eaters and their ethics in practice, particularly around ideas of self-oriented material interest.
If we use genocide as the mass slaughter of any life (we’ll probably conveniently ignore microbes and only stick with multicellular life) rather than human life, animals bred for consumption (as well as those affected by humanity’s effect on the environment) are deliberately genocided and it’s done to some anticipation. The scale makes this far worse, other humans can be a meaningful threat and thus for the oppressor it is reasonable to eliminate them if their very existence poses a threat, as is the case in settler-colonial societies.
I don’t know why you or others might treat non-human life differently than human life, and that is what I consider to be occurring. Feel free to disagree, I would be curious to read your thoughts as it’s not a perspective I would say I understand. Three reasons for my prior comment which come to mind are 1. anthropocentrism, 2. lack of empathy and 3. solipsism. For the second there is a relevant quote which I think captures this well:
“In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.” — G. M. Gilbert
If instead of ‘fellow men’ you put ‘fellow creature’ I think you might understand where some of the arguments come from. Don’t get me started on eugenics and how we are more or less perfecting it with plants and domesticated animals.
Can vegans please stop comparing minority groups to animals? Holy fuck stop being transphobic
Can carnists please stop engaging in bad-faith arguments? Holy fuck stop being speciesist
Vegans see animals as someones not somethings. Maybe take out the speciesist lenses that make solidarity look like transphobia.
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wait this person is both an antinatalist & a carnist??? that… what the fuck?
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Weird how often the loudest anti-vegans also turn out to be anti-human too.
INAV for the simple reason that I’m not strong enough to have that level of self discipline, and autistically stuck in my food habits, but at some point I realized that vegans are essentially broadly speaking correct. Anyone who cares enough about defending their carnism has clearly had a nerve touched by this meme. Like, why not just ignore it and go on with your life if you’re not going to change your habits anyway? You’re certainly not going to convince a vegan to stop being vegan (and why would you want to lmao?). So just. Move on? I know we have a posting culture but on this one you really don’t need to.
I have some squabbles with certain vegan arguments, mostly in the form of “you’re correct but you’re argument for it is bad” rather then “i think your argument is literally wrong”, but I’m not going to bother fighting for something I dont even actually defend. My biggest thing is that I dont think consumption habits matter that much so I dont know why people fight for it so hard when there are better ways to fight the meat industry than simple consumer choices. But like, the meme still isnt technically wrong.
I have some squabbles with certain vegan arguments, mostly in the form of “you’re correct but you’re argument for it is bad” rather then “i think your argument is literally wrong”
literally my main criticism, the arguments sometimes are out of touch and dogmatic. But the vast majority have well thought out and consistent arguments, i think. I have rethought my stance on the subject many times due to this place, and i thank hexbear for that.
stop comparing animal husbandry to the atlantic slave trade though, thats just racist. I don’t have another example off the top of my head but please do not use the slave trade one.
The reason you don’t have any other examples that would be acceptable to you is because nothing would be. You want vegans to sit down and shut up.
Spoon is to soup as front-end loader is to aggregate. The relationship is the same; thing A picks up thing B. Nothing else about them is remotely similar however. The scale, what is picked up, how the device is used, they’re different in almost every way, however you can understand that what they do is the same. Am I comparing soup to aggregate? No of course I’m not.
You have to be operating in very bad faith to suggest that many of our most important members here on our communist website are implying “actually slavery wasn’t that bad after all.”
Edit: Since post is now locked
Directly equating minority oppression with animal abuse
Minorities who are being dehumanized and treated like animals.
Is that because they’re less than human fundamentally, or because they’re oppressed? (It’s the latter in case someone tries to do some logical backflips to interpret this as me saying minorities are less than human)
