- cross-posted to:
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The people of China are fine. Fuck Xi and the CCP. Taiwan numba one.
China number four!
mambo number 5
TikTok has been an extremely successful propaganda outlet
Previous generations will always be coping about later ones, no matter the year. Millenials and gen z are no different.
I think there is more nuance here. In all my direct interactions with Chinese people in business they have been polite, responsive and intelligent. I still get messages from them long after I left the industry I was in.
The CCP however is a different story. I am opposed to them as much as I am opposed to any person or organization that seeks to usurp or silence an individuals right to self determination. There are certainly domestic threats to that right which are greater than the CCPs.
China and the CPC are as intertwined as America and the Democratic Party or America and the Republican Party. The China of today would not exist without the CPC.
America would exist without either party. People forget that the meaning of each party has shifted throughout the years. Parties have even gone extinct when a viable third party alternative was available. But they aren’t central to American life. More than one third of our population doesn’t even affiliate with a party.
The CCP has done everything in their power to make themselves central to Chinese life. But they are a party and not China itself, even they are replaceable. Taiwan is a good example of how democracy could work within a modern Chinese society. Which is why the CCP wants to bring them to heel.
The last third party to receive more than 20% of the vote was Teddy Roosevelt.
In 1912.
Tell me more about this “viable third party alternative.”
Political parties in the US aren’t monolithic entities that never change or shift positions. Every 30 or 40 years they change and factions can switch sides. The southern strategy saw “Dixiecrats” become Republicans in the 70s and 80s.
Ross Perot won approximately 18 percent of the popular vote in 1992. Once again, parties shifted their policies and absorbed those voters.
I think we are overdue for another major shift and possibly a third party run. Many “Moderate” Republicans are Republicans in name only at this point. Their party has been co-opted by Racists, secessionists, MAGA, Qanon, Evangelicals and other fringe elements. (Whom they freely courted in the past and viewed as useful idiots to further their own goals.)
The business community, fiscal conservatives, NeoCons and moderates aren’t used to being out of power. They are organized and have money. Their goals overlap more than MAGAs. It’s only a matter of time before they realize they no longer control the Republican Party and may never control it again.
If Trump or MAGA acolytes stay in power after 2024 you will probably see a significant fracturing of the Republican Party.
The CPC isn’t a monolithic entity either. While the leader of the party is the most powerful, actual change in the party happens from the bottom-up.
lol. Tell that to the autocrat that consolidated all the power.
Change doesn’t happen in that party unless Xi says so. Same with Russia and Putin.
Oh sorry, you must have meant the Democratic Party where unelected party insiders (super delegates) chose Clinton to run against Trump despite Sanders polling better in the matchup.
What evidence is there that Xi consolidated all the power? Is it that he led an anti corruption campaign and has been in power for ten years? Is it that he isn’t directly elected by the people? Because by those standards Angela Merkel would also be a dictator.
Trump?
Lol no. Xi has eliminated or purged every individual and has gutted every institution that could serve to oppose his reign that there is no one left who can make policy decisions on a national level.
Xi has also killed the messenger so many times that there is no one left who will bring him accurate information.
Bottom level bureaucrats are reduced to making decisions based on what they think Xi wants. The result has been a string of absolute failures wolf warrior diplomacy, the spy balloon, etc.
The CCP and China are what state failure looks like in its early stages.
What evidence is there for this beyond mere speculation? Most articles on Xi from the western press read more like gossip magazines than investigative journalism. They’re full of things like “body language experts” and other fluff but not much else.
The same is true for the “spy balloon” or “wolf warrior diplomacy”. While we don’t know what the balloon’s purpose was, the US has basically admitted that it wasn’t collecting any data. As for “wolf warrior diplomacy” it amounts to minor Chinese state officials being sassy on twitter. There’s no evidence that such behavior was state policy.
Concluding that China is bound to collapse based on this kind of flimsy evidence is so silly.
It’s like you are being deliberately obtuse. Or maybe you really are just not very bright, I don’t know.
18% of the vote! And yet, received zero electoral votes.
Hmm. How is that a “valid third-party”? Dude got no votes.
You asked for an example of a third party and I gave you a relatively recent one. Moving the goal posts after my response is just petty.
I also gave you the effects of third parties on American politics. It causes the two main parties to shift their stances or go extinct.
The occupy movements of the early teens didn’t last, nor did it metamorphose into a third party. But it’s effect on politics was felt and galvanized Democrats to oppose austerity.
The lack of a third party doesn’t mean that other views aren’t adopted or incorporated into the two main parties. The lack of a third party is a symptom of our winner take all electoral system.
TLDR: The U.S. does not have a parliamentary system. Don’t expect its political parties to function the same as one.
American society drives the makeup of our parties not the other way around.
The CCP drives the makeup of Chinese society. The Average Chinese person has no voice and no way to influence change besides subtle protest of policy or outright revolution.
Here’s the question, when we talk about China the country, are we talking about the Chinese people, or their government? Because I have very different answers for the two.
I’ve grown up with and worked with Chinese Americans, both from mainland China and Taiwan. I want to see them have freedom of speech and expression and ability to criticize the government, so I have to be adversarial to the CCP. I can’t imagine liking Chinese people and the CCP simultaneously, knowing what the party does – I want the latter reformed so the former can thrive.
I also think there’s a lot of innovation for the human race as a whole if China and the US are rivals, not adversaries. Friendly competition leads to scientific advancements without compromising on joint research and efforts.
The thing is, you can’t really separate the Chinese people from the CCP. Something like 7% of the population are members and the party has very high approval ratings. That’s not just because the CCP are good propagandists either. Rather the living conditions for the average Chinese person have improved dramatically over the course of only a few decades thanks to policy decisions made by the CCP. As such, opposing the CCP and wanting the Chinese people to thrive may be seen as a highly contradictory perspective to people living in mainland China.
By that logic, it’s the same for usa.
While I would agree that many in the US have strong feelings about their party affiliation, I don’t think it’s quite the same.
For one thing, by joining the CCP you are actually required to participate. I don’t know the numbers off hand, but I imagine far fewer people in the US actually participate in their local Democratic or Republican party clubs. Additionally, the approval ratings of democrats or republicans is lower than the CCP’s even if you only poll their respective party members.
That’s racist and orientalist af. A people and their government are never equated. They’re always separate things. That’s literally sinophobia. Will you tell us that PRC citizens overseas are equal to their government as well, justifying their repression overseas?
Thankfully I never equated them.
You said they can’t be separated. If they can’t be separated, then functionally they’re the same thing, hence you very much did equate them.
But I think maybe English is not your first language, so maybe you can be forgiven for using the language sloppily. If you know what I mean.
How is that racist at all? The comment wasn’t making it out to be a negative thing, or saying that Chinese citizens were somehow wrong by supporting the CCP. I just fail to see how it is racist to point out the fact that the CCP has supporters in China. Seems obvious.
I’m referring to people in both China and Taiwan, and the CCP is certainly bad for the latter. I want people in both countries to prosper.
I’m not convinced the CCP has to be bad news for the latter. The CCP has a very economistic mindset when it comes to dealing with internal strife within China. As such, I think they would potentially settle for an economic union with certain security guarantees which would allow Taiwan to remain politically independent.
The most pragmatic solution is to recognize Taiwan’s independence and pledge to protect it if they’re invaded. There is no logical reason to pursue unification if people in Taiwan don’t want it. If this economic union would be like the EU, where states are still independent countries, I’m in favor of it – provided Taiwan is willingly wanting to join it.
The problem with pursuing full independence is that not all Taiwanese people currently want the island to be a separate country given the deep cultural, familial, and economic ties they have to the mainland. That of course doesn’t mean those who are against independence trust the CCP. Unfortunately I think that nuance gets lost in western media.
Put it to a vote, and go with what the highest percentage wants. Do it like a democracy.
The Taiwanese government would have to negotiate those terms with the mainland before any such referendum could happen. However, that’s unlikely to occur in the near term if the DPP, which is the “pro independence” party, wins the upcoming presidential elections. When combined, parties interested in negotiating with the mainland are polling higher than them. However, the DPP maintains a a slight lead with a plurality of support. Needless to say it’s a complicated situation. I doubt the issue of Taiwan’s future will be resolved anytime soon.
Rather the living conditions for the average Chinese person have improved dramatically over the course of only a few decades thanks to policy decisions made by the CCP.
Not sure if that explains it all. CCP had high approval ratings also 1950s and 1960s when their policies caused millions of people to starve to death. But sure, they have made some pretty good pro-free market revisions in the last few decades, which has made them float to top of the world. It doesn’t look like it’s going to last for very long, though – their population is changing and they’re still clinging to the obviously wrong communist principles, which makes adapting to changing circumstances slow.
What I don’t understand is what was the point of the civil war, then? If they’re becoming the Republic of China, why call themself communist anymore? Perhaps they should really join Taiwan, and just stop their silly socialist experiment. That’s the peaceful reunification I would like to see.
I don’t think we have any reliable polling data to say what the approval rating of the government was during the Great Leap Forward. However, Mao did lose a lot of influence within the CCP as a consequence. As such I think it’s safe to say there was lots of dissatisfaction at least within the party itself.
As for why the CCP doesn’t drop their communists principles it’s simple. They’re still communists who believe in Marxism-Leninism. They just don’t have a principled aversion to markets as long as they’re useful for raising living standards and economic development.
They do however have an aversion to political liberalization. This was in part informed by what they saw as a failure of the joint market and political reforms happening in Eastern European socialist countries. The CCP’s fear was that political liberalization would empower a nascent capitalist class which could lead to economic disaster. I don’t think they were necessarily wrong in this regard as that’s exactly what happened to Russia only a few years later.
If you want the CCP to stop what you see as a silly socialist experiment you’ll have to give them better reasons to. The CCP isn’t irrational. They’re just working from a different set of assumptions than you are.
The CCP’s fear was that political liberalization would empower a nascent capitalist class which could lead to economic disaster. I don’t think they were necessarily wrong in this regard as that’s exactly what happened to Russia only a few years later.
I would call that class in Russia a nascent criminal class, not capitalist class. But if you’re inclined to think from the left, perhaps you equate these classes.
You’re right that that group indeed caused a catastrophe in Russia’s liberalization attempt. Some sources claim that Putin has absolutely no interest (and therefore, probably, knowledge) in economic matters, which might be one of the reasons why he failed. Argentina and Milei will perhaps show us soon if liberalization will work better if the person leading it is interested in economics. Argentina’s and Russias GDP per capita has been roughly similar after Argentina’s crash in early 2000s, so the countries are at least in some ways comparable.
If you like people not being poor, you like the CPC
Hitler and Putin also lifted a lot of people out of poverty and addressed terrible economies. They provided stability.
That in no way however means that they are supported by people who want to eliminate poverty.
The thing is those examples you gave really are not comparable to the massive and sustained economic growth China has experienced since their economic reforms in the late 80s. Putin has only overseen a modest economic recovery following the disaster that was economic shock therapy in the 90s. As for Hitler, he provided the German economy with whatever you would call the exact opposite of stability.
I believe Putin’s appeal is having led the country out of that economic disaster, so even though there isn’t massive growth under him, he was elected and maintained power for taking them out of the very bad times.
I should’ve clarified my comment on Hitler a bit, because you’re right there haha. Similar to Putin, Hitler got Germany out of their economic disaster. That recovery is what actually got him Time person of the year. Everyone’s well aware what followed however.
There’s a phenomenon where the leader at the end of an economic crisis, or a leader jumpstarting their economy, gets very high support. That leader though isn’t infallible. Hitler drove Germany to ruin, and Putin has caused devastating damage to Russia.
My point in all this – getting a good economy does not necessarily mean a politician or political entity will always do the best for their country. In this case, I think invading Taiwan would be the beginning of their end.
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Remember: It’s okay when the US does it.
You realise plenty of people dislike both right?
And plenty of people think it’s okay when the US does it.
What’s your point?
And plenty of people think the CCP’s behaviour is ok. Both groups are capable of being simultaneously wrong.
both groups wrong? sounds dubious to me, you’re probably just a shill for whichever side i’m not on.
What’s yours? You’re the one trying to change the subject. It’s cheap, stupid, condescending and obvious as fuck.
My point is that it’s not okay when the US does it, but people like you think otherwise and get mad when called out.
Thanks for proving me right.
Scarcely. You’re concerned to make an irrelevant point about the US when in fact we’re trying to have an intelligent discussion about the CCP.
Nobody cares. Shut the fuck up. There is no lack of venues in which one can appropriately bitch about the US, but this is not one, you whiney little fucker.
You want to change the subject because it’s obvious that you’re uncomfortable with people questioning the CCP’s authoritarian tendencies.
If you were OK with it, you wouldn’t feel the need to trot out your deeply condescending and stupid whataboutism.
It’s okay. We get it. You’re mad someone criticized the US.
In your mind, “it’s okay when the US does it.”
Remember: There are CCP apologists among us.
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most authoritarian countries
In the US, 0.7% of the population is in prison. That’s nearly one out of every hundred citizens and the highest per capita of incarcerated citizens in the world. Higher than Russia, higher than China, higher than North Korea.
Land of the free indeed. Propaganda works.
Does that include the Xinjiang internment camps, and are you really trusting the CCP’s official statistics on anything knowing how badly they lied during the first year of COVID?
I’m not saying China is great. I’m saying I’m sceptical of a country that throws it’s military power around the world whilst they simultaneously tell us who the enemy is.
Last time I checked the Chinese didn’t kill 400K+ civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan or sponsor the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.
Does your comment count as “moving the goalposts” (changing the subject from CCP to USA) or an “Appeal to Emotion” (dead civilians) or a strawman argument (USA ‘sponsors’ collective punishment)? I got a bingo card to fill out.
Is there a section about “trust issues”?
It’s whataboutism.
Their vocational facilities and re-education centers are a far better way of managing and de-radicalizing extremist groups like the ETIM than fucking bombing them, invading them, and lying about WMDs.
50+ mostly muslim UN states have approved of how China handled this after sending delegates and diplomats to Xinjiang:
…separatism and religious extremism has caused enormous damage to people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang, which has seriously infringed upon human rights, including right to life, health and development. Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centers. Now safety and security has returned to Xinjiang and the fundamental human rights of people of all ethnic groups there are safeguarded. The past three consecutive years has seen not a single terrorist attack in Xinjiang and people there enjoy a stronger sense of happiness, fulfillment and security. We note with appreciation that human rights are respected and protected in China in the process of counter-terrorism and deradicalization.
We appreciate China’s commitment to openness and transparency. China has invited a number of diplomats, international organizations officials and journalist to Xinjiang to witness the progress of the human rights cause and the outcomes of counter-terrorism and deradicalization there. What they saw and heard in Xinjiang completely contradicted what was reported in the media. We call on relevant countries to refrain from employing unfounded charges against China based on unconfirmed information before they visit Xinjiang.
The only countries accusing China of mishandling this are its geopolitical rivals in the west. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this.
QiaoCollective has a detailed timeline and report of Xinjiang related events.
BadEmpanada has an in-depth video essay on the topic with sources in description.
Last things first, pardon me for holding one of your sources at arms’ length and my nose with the other. They don’t sound impartial or unbiased, especially with their explicitly-stated anti-Western bias. BadEmpanada just looks like a Che wannabe and I’m not sure how much I time I should waste considering what a leftist Aussie living in BA has to say but it’s probably already too much. Buenos Aires is a beautiful city though and if you’ve never been, you should give it a go.
Going back to the top of your comment, which countries support or condemn China for their internment camps means very little to me. Many of the countries in your graphic have abysmally shitty records themselves and/or are belt-and-road clients and/or have other reasons to disagree with the US. Pardon me while I laugh heartily at anyone who takes Russia’s or Venezuela’s or Saudi Arabia’s opinions on human rights seriously. That, and your graphic is from 2019 and outdated. The list changed remarkably in 2020 and the countries of Algeria, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Burkina Faso, Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Kuwait, Nigeria, Oman, Philippines, Serbia, Somalia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Zambia revoked their defense of the CCP’s treatment of Uighurs. It’s left as an exercise to the reader which of those are majority-Muslim.
Aside from all that, the fact that you refer to those camps with the CCP-friendly term “vocational facilities and re-education centers” means we’re just not going to agree on this because that’s certainly not what they sound like.
Don’t spend all fifty cents in one place.
That’s why China is such good friends with all of its neighbors, amirite?
The only countries accusing China of mishandling this are its geopolitical rivals in the west. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this.
“All the other totalitarian countries agree with our totalitarian county” lol
You can also literally just visit Xinjiang and see it for yourself lol, since there’s not much travel restrictions on the region anymore now that covid’s mostly over.
There are tons of Youtube videos doing just that.
In the US, people vote on laws, and the laws that put so many people in prison were massively popular until we realized “oh fuck there sure are a lot of people in prison and this problem isn’t solved at all.”
I’ll take people democratically getting things wrong 100% of the time over “authoritarian regime that hasn’t come for you yet”
So yes, land of the free, and free people sometimes do dumb shit.
This is such a precious yet tortured interpretation. We can all see that you are just stitching together little bits of rhetoric until it goes where you wanted to end up. You might be right, you might be wrong, but whatever you are, it’s a total fucking coincidence.
This is a description of actual events that actually happened. Nothing in my comment is an interpretation of anything whatsoever.
If you don’t believe War on Drugs laws like the Crime Bill were popular, that’s simply because you’ve done no research. The 1994 bill now seen as “racist” had 58% support in the minority community, a trend that continued for some time.
The cool thing about democracy is people can look around and say “oh shit we fucked up.” All you have to do is change enough minds.
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The amount of comically fake propaganda westerners will believe is hilarious lmao
Is that better or worse than being shot because you’re a kid that went to school?
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Maybe you should go live there yourself if you like it so much
lol
They literally said the stereotypical lib thing lmao
Is that a Lib thing now? When I was growing up in a super rural conservative area I always heard if you don’t like America you’re free to leave. Like progressive change is a cancer or something.
Libs are just conservatives at heart who like to think they’re progressive so yeah that checks out.
Instead of improving our country, these two groups tell you to go elsewhere.
Since when? Lol
You’re confused.
Hmm. I wonder why China doesn’t have an immigration problem?
deleted by creator
Aw, look who parrots the propaganda they hear like a good little American.
Can it really be called propaganda if the information doesn’t come from the US government? China’s news outlets are state owned. America has NPR and PBS, which are not particularly popular compared to privately owned news outlets in the US.
Propaganda is not limited to governments, and it never has been.
Do you believe that NPR and PBS are the extent of government media funding in America? Because that’s outrageously wrong. Both the CIA and DOD have MASSIVE budgets for media, and it’s all obfuscated so people like you think the only propaganda you consume come from NPR and PBS.
Start with the more obvious stuff, and look into how Top Gun got funded. Radio free Asia was firist secretly and now openly funded by the CIA with the explicit purpose of growing distrust among Americans against the Asian socialist and communist experiments.
America does not lack propaganda, we are just way better at hiding it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_influence_on_public_opinion
You make fair and valid points, but the propaganda the US government creates does not stand alone in the american media sphere. We have the freedom to explore other ideas on the internet or purchase movies, tv shows, music, and articles from all around the world with little to no censorship. Thus, american propaganda influence faces more competition than its chinese counterpart.
No, they’re full of shit and are conflating several unrelated things in ways that may seem plausible to the casual observer, but that are actually being dishonestly spun in furtherance of a very specific narrative. It’s a very old trick. Don’t fall for it.
It definitely can be called propaganda but for different reasons usually related to market pressures.
Private news organizations don’t like going against the status quo. That invites controversy which their advertisers or investors may not be comfortable with. Even non profits outlets like NPR don’t want to upset their large donors.
Additionally, finding reliable sources is a difficult and expensive process. As such, private news outlets are more likely to use government officials as primary sources especially when it comes to foreign affairs. They may also rely on privately funded think tanks and NGOs which may have often been created to push a particular narrative.
Taken together, that means private news outlets are heavily biased in favor of the interests of their local business elite and existing foreign policy.
With regards to China, their economy has technically outgrown the US economy if you look at purchasing power parity. That’s deeply concerning for US business elite who have enjoyed an almost hegemonic control over the global economy since WWII. In my view, that’s why you see far more negative stories about China today than there were a few decades ago, despite the fact that China’s political system has not meaningfully changed.
I disagree with your point that private organizations dont go against the status quo in the US. I can’t turn on any news agency in the States without seeing headlines about where the US government is failing. and which political party is blamed for said failure depends on the bias of the news agency.
I 100% agree that news agencies are biased to their business elites in the US, but the foreign policy bias you mention is more related to that news agencies’ particular politcal leanings.
I find it hard to believe that the business elites that own news agencies are trying to sway the american peoples view of china because they feel they are losing some petty competition to make more money. We’ve seen the global opinion of china fall greatly since 2008, mostly due to how china is treating its people through strict surveilance, its attempt to control its neighbors, its use of wolfe warrior diplomacy, and increase aggression on the global stage.
It’s true that you will hear limited critique for Republicans and Democrats from private media outlets. However, there is usually very little criticism directed at things that both parties can agree on, like their hawkish stance towards China.
That said, I think we have vastly different perspectives on how the economy functions. What you view as a petty competition for more money I think is an existential threat to the privileges American business elite currently enjoy. If the industries they are invested in are no longer competitive in a global market, they will not be able to extract the wealth that currently funds their extravagant lifestyles. They will happily try to influence US policy if they think it can prevent that from happening.
Lastly, I agree China’s favorable in western aligned countries have been negative since around 2008. However up until around 2018 they were still hovering close to where they were in the 2000s. It was around 2018 when Trump started implementing tariffs against China that negative opinions on China spiked. It’s not like Trump cares about human rights so why did his administration take such a protectionist measure when Republicans have been pro free trade for decades? Well that also happens to be around the same time China’s economy likely surpassed the US in purchasing power parity. That gap has only widened so it’s not surprising to me that Biden has chosen to keep those tariffs in place while also implementing new trade restrictions with China.
I love how you talk about the news business as if you know anything at all about what really goes on in newsrooms and editorial meetings. You obviously don’t. What you say is pure amateur hour. It’s so uninformed that it isn’t even wrong; it’s just in a completely different part of the universe that has almost nothing whatsoever to do with actual reality on the ground.
i live here in a police state with like 4 times as many cops than teachers
Seeems chill 🌶 except for the food 🍲
and yet authoritarian China is more reactive to feedback from the people than democratic America
odd, that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–2020_Hong_Kong_protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square
If you have an example of anything at this level of authoritarian that the US has done in the past 50 years, please let me know, because I’m an American and would likely be kept intentionally uninformed about it.
I mean if you’re citing Tiananmen, I’d recommend that you read the messages and reports that came out of the US embassy during and following the event.
They tell a rather different story than what’s commonly spread today and base it off of actual first-hand eyewitness testimony. It’s not by any means “Deng Xiaoping did nothing wrong,” but it’s extremely different from what’s on Wikipedia.
Jesus fucking christ are you denying the massacre? There are dozens of photos of mangled bodies and pulpified smears of remains. It’s absolute horrific.
Ccp shill
US embassy doesn’t lie
The US embassy doesn’t lie
They aren’t wrong though. The media has long lost the truth about what actually happened that day. Here you can read a piece by a journalist who was the Beijing correspondent for the Washington Post at the time.
https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php
Brand new account + ratio + Tianenmen square denier
CCP shill detected and blocked
bye
CCP Shill
That’s why so many people want to immigrate there, right? Right? It’s so strange that China doesn’t have an immigration problem.
by policy, China makes it extremely hostile for non-ethnic Chinese groups to immigrate to China. If you’re Han, Manchu, Hui, etc. it’s not too hard, but if you’re white you might as well give up.
In fact, emigration from China has slowed in the past decade. QoL in China has gone up as it has gone down in the rest of the world, and the promise of better economic opportunities only materializes itself in tier-1 US cities like New York and San Francisco.
Maybe young people just don’t fall for the propaganda peddled by western media and their friends in US government departnents
They’re probably just ignorant. Xi is just as bad as Putin.
That’s not fair.
Xi is good at his job.
maybe they fall for the propaganda peddled by eastern media and their dictator friends.
They never see any of that, nor do you. All news is filtered through the big western agencies, AP/Reuters/AFP, to ensure that only the approved narrative is reported.
You really have a lot of faith in the organising capacity of all collective western governments when they can’t even agree on some pretty basic stuff.
It’s not that corporate news in the western world has to be well organized to put out the same perspective. Rather, they operate under the same kinds of selective pressures and as such they develop similar biases.
A good example is all the reporting on WMDs in Iraq that went unquestioned by much of the western press until well after it mattered. Unfortunately nothing has really changed since the invasion of Iraq.
And yet, there was a considerable portion of the western press that very much did question the WMD narrative, most notably in the US, Gannet, which still owns more newspapers than any other publisher in North America.
I had recently finished up an undergrad degree in journalism at the time and it was very obvious to anyone who was paying attention that people were selectively consuming whatever news told them what they wanted to hear. A huge portion of the country went bat shit crazy after 9/11 and had no interest whatsoever in listening to anyone who urged caution. At the time I worked for a local paper in California’s Central Valley and we were basically called traitors every time we questioned the narrative at all.
Incorrect, I have no faith in the US government or the governments of any of its poodles.
And yet somehow you found room to believe that they are able to secretly control the major wire services. In a thread full of deeply stupid ideas, this one is probably the stupidest of all.
I’m sorry, there’s just no way to be polite about it.
if you say so
Go talk about Tiananmen Square in China and get back to us about countries and approved agencies.
And consider, any event or topic you whatabout for the West will be a far lower severity since we can actually talk about it with repercussion, and do research on it
你有一笔收款入账 ¥0.50
你不是一个好人
网络水军是好人吗？
Counter theory; young people are falling for eastern propaganda via CPC monitored and controlled apps/content serving algos.
This just in: Kids today aren’t yet full of hate.
Kids in general are less aware.
FIFY
This is also what previous generations said about you btw
What say you about the reeducation camps and social credit score and restriction of travel? What say you about the imprisonment of Xi’s political opponents? My heart goes out to the Chines people, but the Chinese state must go.
Open your eyes.
Yeah, because I was. Curiously enough, I don’t even need to look at history to condemn what the CCP is doing today.
Doing today, hmm? Like how the evil CPC made China’s CO2 emmissions plateu just last month and are targeting zero emissions by 2060? Or how they’re spearheading cleaner energy this month with the first 4th gen nuclear reactor.
Also them boosting trans rights with a court ruling just last week, and currently installing a new regulation to limit exploitative practices through video games.
How could the CCP do this
Oh, they finally did something about pollution after being one of the top polluters and doing the minimal effort for the past decades to the point that they had people not being able to go outside from all the smog clouds? Props to them for now setting 2060 as the goal when we’ve already surpassed the major climate change tipping points then, despite the fact that they were asked to correct themselves long ago and refused, opting instead for an empty promise way behind schedule to avoid being held accountable for one of the most impactful issues on the table. That’ll do it. And that they’re considering human rights after they tried to hide their concentration camps from international media where they perpetuated genocide, reeducation and slavery? Weird that they’re now promoting nuclear energy after they created a big scathing shit show about Japan’s treated nuclear waste water to manipulate the market while dumping out a lot of their own even more radioactive waste. Wow, they sure changed a lot in the last 5 minutes. Incredible. Next time you’ll tell me that Hitler did a lot of job creation with those gas chambers, huh.
But maybe they should do something about their predatory lending to smaller nations. Or stop trying to actively erase a historical massacre to portray a more favorable image. Maybe stop quietly arresting protesters to silence dissent, because they sure as hell won’t consider freedom of press in their wildest dreams. And maybe reconsider their widespread intellectual property theft while they’re at it. They could consider simply not pouring gasoline on the fire of international conflict for an invasion of a territory that has operated independently just fine to date, for that to create more bloodshed and another international crisis even though they’ve been overly aggressive lately with everyone else. But one can dream.
So much western propaganda here and articles with deliberately missing context lmao.
First off, of course an industrializing nation has to emit pollution, specially one with a 1.5 billion population; every industrialized country has, and Africa will too as it industrializes in the future. The point is China is actually doing something about it now, unlike the west.
China and Africa shouldn’t have to suffer by not industrializing, just because western countries can’t manage their pollution even after doing so.
Their vocational facilities and re-education centers are a far better way of managing and de-radicalizing extremist groups like the ETIM in Xinjiang than fucking bombing them, invading them, and lying about WMDs.
50+ mostly muslim UN states have approved of how China handled this after sending delegates and diplomats to Xinjiang:
…separatism and religious extremism has caused enormous damage to people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang, which has seriously infringed upon human rights, including right to life, health and development. Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centers. Now safety and security has returned to Xinjiang and the fundamental human rights of people of all ethnic groups there are safeguarded. The past three consecutive years has seen not a single terrorist attack in Xinjiang and people there enjoy a stronger sense of happiness, fulfillment and security. We note with appreciation that human rights are respected and protected in China in the process of counter-terrorism and deradicalization.
We appreciate China’s commitment to openness and transparency. China has invited a number of diplomats, international organizations officials and journalist to Xinjiang to witness the progress of the human rights cause and the outcomes of counter-terrorism and deradicalization there. What they saw and heard in Xinjiang completely contradicted what was reported in the media. We call on relevant countries to refrain from employing unfounded charges against China based on unconfirmed information before they visit Xinjiang.
The only countries accusing China of mishandling this are its geopolitical rivals in the west. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this.
Also, their supposed “debt-trapping” of nations is just a flat-out lie lmao, likely stemming from the actual debt-trapping that the IMF and World Bank from the west do. China hasn’t seized a single asset from a country that’s defaulted on its debt in the 10 years the BRI has been in progress, even forgiving billions of dollars of debt sometimes.
Of course, not every project has been a success. When you’re working on thousands of foreign infrastructure projects (over 3000 so far) some of them are bound to be massive failures. Railways and bridges for example are often not directly profitable, neither in China nor elsewhere.
won’t consider freedom of press
Ah RSF, one of the many anti-China “non-profit” organizations that receives significant funding from the NED, an offshoot of the CIA, and various other imperialist organizations. I’d take any of their claims with a huge grain of salt, specially ones about the west’s geopolitical rivals.
their widespread intellectual property theft
Intellectual property shouldn’t exist in the first place; they only do so megacorporations can patent everything and keep others down. I applaud them for ignoring those; Africa should do the same as it industrializes, the same way the US also blatantly violated intellectual property laws as it was industrializing.
a territory that has operated independently just fine
Aside from the fact that modern Taiwan came to exist by completely genociding all its natives just 40 years ago (think Israel but if they actually managed to kill all Palestinians), I wouldn’t call hosting military from the most war-mongering nation on its geopolitical rival’s borders, and having a US puppet government “just fine”.
Is everything you disagree with propaganda? If the West is so manipulated, then prove it. And I’ll show you how China is literally locking people away instead for the same thing. I hope you realize that accusing anyone else of what your favorite country is doing by committing human rights violations itself on a massive scale is not a good argument, especially when the sources you criticize have a generally good standing:
Ah RSF, one of the many anti-China “non-profit” organizations that receives significant funding from the NED,
Bias Rating: LEAST BIASED Factual Reporting: HIGH Country: USA Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE Media Type: Organization/Foundation Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/council-on-foreign-relations/
If you think they’re not, then prove it. I want to see those pristine sources of yours.
The West has been many things about climate change for years as shown in the link in my message above. That’s what the Paris Agreement was for–the one the China co-created and then withdrew from after ignoring it altogether. All for show.
What’s more, China is one of the most industrialized nations in the world. They’re literally stealing technology because they can use it. That means they also have the power to invest in renewable energy, but they chose not to, embarking in developmental projects only to abandon and demolish them later when a fraction of that could’ve been well spent.
Besides, their plan offers little to no change to what they’ve already been doing without ambition or commitment. This is, again, all talk on their behalf because they’re looking bad right now. You’re literally praising them for not having done anything impactful yet and being 5 years behind schedule.
50+ mostly muslim UN states have approved of how China handled this after sending delegates and diplomats to Xinjiang:
Your link is broken. Not even archive.org works with it. I want to see where that quote is from.
Also, most of the countries that support China in your image are those that commit human rights atrocities daily and have conflict of interests with China: Venezuela, Myanmar, central Africa, and Russia.
Also, their supposed “debt-trapping” of nations is just a flat-out lie lmao
There are many arguments to be made for and against. Just because you found one in your favor doesn’t prove anything. And pointing out corporations in the West is not the same as a literal government engaging in the same shady behavior.
Intellectual property shouldn’t exist in the first place
That’s nice, dear, but it’s not for you to decide. I love how you just change the subject back to whatever the US has done like it’s the only Western country in the world.
Taiwan came to exist by completely genociding all its natives just 40 years ago
Again, what does that have to do with anything? That doesn’t invalidate what Taiwan is today.
All this pointless diversion is yypical CPP apologist behavior.
BULLLLLLLLLLLLshit. There are other hypotheses which are not starkly contrary to other available data. Fascism is rising and the kids are here for it.
The tankies are it in force today. Single party corporate and state alignment with a dominant cultural twist. It’s the definition of fascism including both economic and social elements.
I don’t honestly understand the “this group of people is the enemy thing.”
It was never about specific nationalities.
It was always about specific governments.
Who ends up fighting the wars though?
Sure it was. Definitely can’t find a bunch of racist musings from state officials during the Cold War.
You can thank Tik Tok that all the kids love and use daily. And China controls the content on it.
The zoomers are alright 🫡
Unfortunately, the CPC can’t really control private corporate apps like TikTok abroad. As with the Palestine-Israel conflict on TikTok, it’s not the algorithm, teens are just more pro-Palestine and pro-China.
The Chinese version of the app Douyin is far more strictly regulated though.
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I don’t see anyone mad in the comments about this
How about now?
The trend is similar to the demographics of who support Palestine and Israel.
The kids are alright.
Will they remain like that when they grow up? Usually not.
Maybe young people don’t care about starting a new cold war after the last one went to shit 🤔.
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Wtf is a tankie and an orc? And why should I worry about them? Do I need a Gandalf?
You’re a tankie and an orc if you’re ever critical of the US or capitalism. Even more so if you dare to say something good about China.
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Tankie is someone who (apparently) unironically loves communism, in the USSR sense. The name comes from when Hungary wanted to rescind from the Soviet Union in 1956, who replied by sending in tanks. This made many communists around Europe think seriously what they’re supporting and move to a more moderate position. Some people remained tankies, though.
Orcs are what Ukrainians are calling Russian invaders. It works because they come from the east and behave like orcs in Tolkien’s books.
Do I need a Gandalf?
Yes, we do need a Gandalf.
Propaganda works.
It worked on you, that’s for sure.
You would have a field day with the comment section for this article on Lemmy.ml lol. I’d love to see someone with more energy than me try to fight some of the idiocy going on over there.
One of my accounts got banned form .ml because I had the nerve to tell the kids from Hexbear that their meme replies were juvenile and cringy.
That sounds more like lemmygrad to me but wouldn’t be surprised tbh. Not a single one of them on that instance is interested in facts or debate, just their little circlejerk. They’ll hit puberty one day tho.
.ml has interesting discussion sometimes and other times just turns into a total circlejerk ime
Yeah, well… .ml lost an account that day. And I have no intention to interact with any communities in that instance. Blocked them.
Just got banned from .ml for providing links of China’s wrongdoings lmaooo
Yeah… that windtunnel can fuck itself. It’ll be gone soon if they ban everyone that disagrees with them.
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Recent polling from The Economist and YouGov shows the startling difference in Americans’ views of China by age group. Roughly 25% of Americans aged 18 to 44 said they view China as an enemy, compared with about 52% of those 45 and over (see chart). Almost as many young Americans said they view China as “friendly” as those who said the country was an “enemy”. Just 4% of older Americans see China as friendly.
Meanwhile, views of China among partisans are shifting. Republicans have long been more likely than Democrats to view China as an adversary. But both parties have become more hawkish. When Donald Trump took office in 2017, just 10% of Democrats and 20% of Republicans said they believed China to be an enemy. As of last week, 34% of Democrats and 48% of Republicans took this view.
The wording on this is kinda weird, enemy to who?
Do I think China is an enemy of the US? Yes.
Do I think they’re an enemy to me personally and my values? Ehhh… not really. They do stuff I like and stuff I don’t like.
