• db2@lemmy.world
      39·
      11 months ago

      GPT you mean. Linux can boot in a non-EFI machine that has GPT disk partitions… Windows can’t because it’s dumb.

      • Max-P@lemmy.max-p.me
        33·
        11 months ago

        Yes but by doing so you’re using the same principles as MBR boot. There’s still this coveted boot sector Windows will attempt to take back every time.

        What’s nice about EFI in particular is that the motherboard loads the file from the ESP, and can load multiple of them and add them to its boot menu. Depending on the motherboard, even browse the ESP and manually go execute a .efi from it.

        Which in turn makes it a lot less likely to have bootloader fuckups because you basically press F12 and pick GRUB/sd-boot and you’re back in. Previously the only fix would be boot USB and reinstall syslinux/GRUB.

        • taladar@sh.itjust.works
          10·
          11 months ago

          I just had a bug on both of my EFI computers where they wouldn’t boot any more and a grub-install fixed it, apparently the regular update processes do not update the version on the ESP for some reason and my assumption is that it became incompatible with the modules in /boot

          Adding an EFI Boot Entry for netboot.xyz after it happened on the first one really helped fix the second one though.

    • 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      3·
      11 months ago

      Not in my experience… and apparently a lot of people that dual boot 🤷.

      My main boot partitions are far from the 2TB threshold of MBR, I’m not that rich.

      • pryre@lemmy.world
        11·
        11 months ago

        The reality is that a bootloader will seemingly always be needed to account for difficult BIOS’ and legacy setups (I’m looking at you, dual-booted Ubuntu 20.04).

    • BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca
      11·
      11 months ago

      Naah I just disable secure boot altogether, then you don’t have to worry about all that TPM security theatre.

      • Vash63@lemmy.world
        21·
        11 months ago

        You don’t need secure boot to use EFI. It’s better all around regardless of SB.

        • 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
          4·
          11 months ago

          Yeah, but Windows 11 needs it.

          Can be disabled though. Easiest way - use Rufus when burning the USB.

          Fun fact, you can also install Win11 in MBR mode, no UEFI needed whatsoever.

  • krnl386@lemmy.ca
    18·
    11 months ago

    Ah yes, simplicity. MBR, with all its limitations had one killer feature: it was extremely simple.

    UEFI, as powerful as it is, is the opposite of simple. Many moving parts, so many potential failure points. Unfortunately, it seems like modern software is just that: more complex and prone to failure.

    • 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      7·
      11 months ago

      Exactly why old devices are so hard to break - they’re incredibly simple.

      To be honest, I see nothing wrong with MBR boot, it does the job, I’ll use it till I can or till it doesn’t do the job I want/need.

    • rab@lemmy.ca
      6·
      11 months ago

      I work in IT for many years and I think your last sentence is very true. And is also why the industry is so lucrative haha

    • Tommi Nieminen@lemm.ee
      3·
      11 months ago

      True, but… When MBR Grub drops to rescue or doesn’t appear at all, it’s not only difficult (at least for newbies) but somewhat random if you can actually boot a given OS. With EFI Grub, I’ve often managed to boot using BIOS boot override to launch a usable Grub configuration.

      • krnl386@lemmy.ca
        1·
        11 months ago

        Actually grub 0.x series had much more useful rescue shell tab completion than the latest release. You could easily list all boot devices, partitions, and even filesystems and their contents. All from the rescue shell. Consequently, you could boot into Linux and reinstall grub in the MBR to fix it. All that without using a boot CD/USB! Good luck doing that with the latest version of grub and UEFI.

        Also getting into the BIOS on legacy firmware was also very simple. On most machines it’s the three finger salute followed by either F1, Delete or rarely F11 or F12.

        The boot process was simple, and the BIOS had just one simple task: load and execute the first 512 bytes of the disk that was designated as the boot device. That’s it.

        • 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
          3·
          11 months ago

          Asus --> Del - Enter BIOS, F8 - Boot menu (very confusing since Windows also uses F8 for the recovery mode boot menu, so you have to press F8, then when the boot menu appears, chose the boot device, then have one hand on Enter and the other on F8 again, so that you hit Enter and start tapping like crazy on F8 to enter the rescue mode menu… annoying as hell)

          GigaByte --> Del or F2 - Enter BIOS, F12 - Boot menu, Alt + F10 - Copy main BIOS to backup BIOS

          MSI --> Del or F2 - Enter BIOS, F11 - Boot menu

          ASRock --> Del or F2 - Enter BIOS, F11 or F10 - Boot menu

          Biostar --> Del - Enter BIOS, F9 - Boot menu

          Intel --> F2 - Enter BIOS, F10 or F12 - Boot menu

          I used to remember some of the brand name PCs as well, but time has gotten the best of me 🤷.

          The boot process was simple, and the BIOS had just one simple task: load and execute the first 512 bytes of the disk that was designated as the boot device. That’s it.

          This is actually what I love about MBR nowadays. It’s simple enough so no one wants to mess with it and render the rig unbootable and obscure enough so no one (MS) actually checks if there is anything there that might trigger warnings (non-MS code).

  • BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca
    15·
    11 months ago

    Was upgrading Devuan and something happened with grub-update, could be my btrfs subvol setup?

    Anyway a rescue boot, chroot and grub-update later, and it’s running great again.

  • zaart@lemmy.tedomum.netEnglish
    15·
    11 months ago

    I once fucked up my grub.cfg, wrote over the part needed to unencrypt. Had no idea what had happened. Was a fun night :)

    • 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      5·
      11 months ago

      I have litelarly never broken MBR boot while dual booting and I have done it for at least a decade now. Windows updates and everything, not once has MBR boot been broken for me.

      • prettydarknwild@lemmy.world
        1·
        11 months ago

        at least i wasnt able to install windows in my old computer again because the windows bootloarder keeped overwriting grub, and grub overwrited the windows bootloader, and os-prober didnt worked at all

        • 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
          1·
          11 months ago

          You install Windows first, then Linux. Or install Windows, make an image, repartition, install Linux, whatever, then bring back the Windows image, just not the EFI partition or the MBR.

    • pete_the_cat@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      11 months ago

      Unless you have two EFI partitions on different disks, the same breakage happens with EFI. I’ve had Windows wipe out Grub on multiple occasions.

  • jaschen@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
    11·
    11 months ago

    Legit question. Outside of FOSS and a few more frames per second on some steam games, why would anyone go through the trouble of installing and configuring a Linux box? Last time I tried I couldn’t get my Bluetooth headphones to work and I had to buy a new webcam because I didn’t know how to compile drivers.

    I sorta just accept I’m running a bit slower and everything works on my TinyPC win10 box.

    • detalferous@lemm.ee
      28·
      11 months ago

      I find the experience to be superior to Windows in every way, including driver support. And it gets more and more stark with every version of Windows.

      Ten, you say? Is that still supported?.

      • Ziglin@lemmy.world
        6·
        11 months ago

        It is, for now…

        Nvidia drivers can be a hassle on Linux but on windows you need to use the Nvidia driver installer (as far as I know) with a gui and ads, so also a bad experience.

    • woelkchen@lemmy.world
      14·
      11 months ago

      Last time I tried I couldn’t get my Bluetooth headphones to work and I had to buy a new webcam because I didn’t know how to compile drivers.

      When was that? 2002?

      • jaschen@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
        1·
        11 months ago

        It wasn’t recent. I think it has to be at least 5 years ago.

        The noname webcam I had was awesome. Had a bright LED when you’re on a call. This was before covid, so before all the webcam innovations. I could get the camera to engage but couldn’t get the LED to turn on.

        I had to end up getting a Logitech webcam.

        I fix my webcam issue by reinstalling Windows.

    • BananaOnionJuice@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      12·
      11 months ago

      I would say convenience, my experience is that it just works, and then you get an OS you are fully in control of.

      On Windows you sit down to do stuff and Windows needs to reboot and update, and you have already postponed it as long as you were allowed.

      Yes there will always be some hardware that lacks Linux support, and the migration to Linux can be bumpy.

      • Ziglin@lemmy.world
        5·
        11 months ago

        In my experience it usually doesn’t just work at first but after you get used to it and it’s fine. More importantly, if you have a problem you can find it and fix. If you’re not happy with how it looks, change it and if you don’t want companies spying on you, don’t install their software.

        Also as someone that sometimes has to use windows I absolutely hate being forced to do updates, like come on I just wanted to turn it off and leave and then I have to wait 5 minutes for it to go through the update and boot again just to turn it back off because it can’t remember that I pressed the off and not reboot button.

    • sgtgig@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      11 months ago

      FOSS is a really big reason to run Linux. In ten years you can trust that your Linux install will be running and up to date. In ten years there’s a non-zero chance Microsoft will have moved to a forced subscription model for Windows.

      It also just runs faster, can fully update itself and all installed software with a few button clicks or one terminal command, and has tons of options for people who have more technical skill.

    • LeFantome@programming.dev
      9·
      11 months ago

      I cannot answer your question because it proceeds from an assumption I cannot related to. In my view, Linux is much easier to setup and I have immediate access to a huge software library and am immediately productive.

      Installing Windows is much more of a hassle ( the licensing alone ) and, even once installed, you have a system that does nothing useful and needs much more time to install software on before accomplishing anything. Every time you turn around, it is throwing up arbitrary and artificial roadblocks.

      Unless it is already installed, I personally cannot fathom why people would want to spend their time installing Windows.

    • Rewolb_W@lemmy.world
      7·
      11 months ago

      why would anyone go through the trouble of installing and configuring a Linux box?

      It doesn’t cost any money and it doesn’t spy on you. It tends to be “lighter” than Windows, so it generally runs better on older hardware. It is easier to tweak and customize.

      • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
        1·
        11 months ago

        Hey, it works for you and that’s fine ☺️ 😉.

        Be better for Humanity though if people supported corporations that made better products than those that made worse ones.

    • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      4·
      11 months ago

      If you get used to the terminal, to connect your bluetooth headphones you turn on your bluetooth and type bluetoothctl scan on it’ll scan and return devices by mac address, find yours, type pair [the mac address] connect [mac address] exit exit done.

    • Howdy@lemmy.zip
      2·
      11 months ago

      I just switch my gaming rig to linux 3 or 4 months ago. First time daily driving linux. I haven’t touched a driver or anything system config related. I don’t think there is a single peice of hardware not working on my box. Im on pop_os! With an amd gpu. Can play any game thanks to steam proton or lutris. Playing wow and cyberpunk right now.

      • jaschen@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
        1·
        11 months ago

        That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing. I honestly haven’t thought about drivers either. Sounds like outside of No ads and bloatware, which is completely removed with the Tiny11 build, I don’t see an advantage. At least not worth the trouble learning it.

    • KubeRoot@discuss.tchncs.de
      1·
      11 months ago

      AFAIK games generally still run worse on Linux, there are cases that seem to beat Windows performance, but I’m not kidding myself about that - it’s just not big enough of a difference to worry.

      Aside from other reasons people are saying, I love my package manager. Having a centralized system where my stuff comes from and is installed, not having to deal with searching for websites, finding installers, and dealing with the bullshit they sometimes throw your way. And guess what, if something’s not available in the repositories, perhaps because it offers no installers in the first place, I can usually easily make my own build script and install it in the system anyways.

      And then when it comes to updating my stuff, I also don’t have to deal with every program having its own updating/auto updating system, I just run a few commands and update everything I have installed.

      • 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
        2·
        11 months ago

        And then when it comes to updating my stuff, I also don’t have to deal with every program having its own updating/auto updating system, I just run a few commands and update everything I have installed.

        This is the best part for me… well, one of the best parts 😁.

    • ѕєχυαℓ ρσℓутσρє@lemmy.sdf.org
      1·
      11 months ago

      When was that last time? In the last 5 years, except for brand new graphics cards, I’ve never had any hardware that didn’t simply work out of the box.

      And for the first question, it works much better and breaks less often (these memes exaggerate for comedic effect, usually it’s rock solid), has much greater privacy, and it’s free.

  • WalJT@lemmy.world
    8·
    11 months ago

    Honestly can’t remember the last time I had a bootoader issue. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve broken plenty of other things.

  • Classy@sh.itjust.works
    8·
    11 months ago

    I’ve been struggling with the boot loader for four days now and now my laptop boot loops and I can’t even access my primary OS (still windows) and can only access Ubuntu via flash drive. So yeah this meme is too fucking on.

  • wooki@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
    7·
    11 months ago

    I cant be the only person who noticed the Arch user dating a fury!?

    I wouldnt go to bed either…oh yes “bootloader”.

  • onlinepersona@programming.devEnglish
    7·
    11 months ago

    MBR is so easy to understand. UEFI, has so many things to understand EFI, ESP, MOK, signing procedures and signing chains, … it’s just so darn complicated.

    • cley_faye@lemmy.world
      11·
      11 months ago
      • Disable secureboot
      • Things just work

      And in the end you just remove the need for a physical attacker to use whatever vulnerability there is in your EFI implementation anyway.

      • 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
        1·
        11 months ago

        Things just work

        Yeah, if you have only one OS. Or when you have more than one, but the other one doesn’t constantly try to fuck up the first one.

        MBR is easy in this regard. Windows never touches the MBR magic, even when updating, so it’s all good. GRUB keeps the MBR in check, Windows doesn’t meddle, everything’s hunky dory in MBR boot land.