- Developers of Cities: Skylines 2 have noticed a growing toxicity in their community, which is affecting engagement and creativity.
- The CEO of Colossal Order expressed concern about the negative impact of toxicity on the team and the community.
- The developers still encourage helpful criticism from the community but ask for it to be constructive and kind.
Archive link: https://archive.ph/mVaIY
You’re not familiar with the car and motorcycle industries are you?
People spend years tearing into companies over vehicles, spending hundreds or thousands of hours meticulously detailing every engineering problem, real or imagined, and shitting on anyone who disagrees.
The only difference is that car and motorcycle companies generally shield their employees from criticism to a much greater degree.
You don’t usually see the engineers names in a credit screen in your car. Those engineers aren’t generally seen shit posting on twitter about how entitled the customers are because that would get them sacked.
Is there a word for an argument that tries to justify their side by saying “it happens in this other place, so it should be okay here, too”, because that’s what that sounds like to me.
You can be constructive without being a dick, full stop. No justification from it happening elsewhere will actually justify that. Being a dick is not justifiable. Feeling upset and angry absolutely is, and you can express that, again, without being a dick.
Show me people being dicks about it, I’ve looked and haven’t seen it.
I’ll tell you a dick move I have seen though… Ive seen a developer lie about features and deliver a broken mess for full price.
I’m talking generally, I have no real knowledge or horse in this specific race. If people aren’t actually being toxic here, then that’s awesome and they should keep it up.
Yes, I think if a developer does that and everyone involved in delivering that marketing and the developers knew from the outset they would have to deliver those features, but wouldn’t be able to, and they didn’t stop the people giving the public that information if they are even able to do that, then the specific people involved in those decisions would be dicks, even then, sinking to their level is not a good look.
This is also why people should wait for release and reviews. No one forced you at gunpoint to pay for a gane that didn’t deliver on its marketing. This happens so much in this industry you should almost expect it and be wary, and the main way to get that message across to the dev is to not buy it until it’s satisfactory. That’s what they deserve for their transgression and what will hit them where it hurts deservedly, no money.
So because it’s “industry practice” to screw over consumers it’s somehow on consumers?
I suppose we can apply the same logic to scams, victims know about scams and fall for them anyway so it’s their own fault when their life savings get stolen.
No point in blaming the scammers. Everyone knows how it works.
I wouldn’t say consumers deserve that burden, but we have it because there’s no governmental regulation of moral marketing practices. If we can legally move towards that somehow, then hell yeah, but I’ll be honest that I’m too lazy and/or legally inept to do that myself.
I’m not saying it should be the customer’s problem, but as humans that are great at learning pattern recognition it can help us avoid misery and wasting our money, and I wouldn’t also say that people should do that willy nilly just because ideally you’d be able to trust marketing. You can’t. It’s just the only way to cope with this messed up system in its current state.
So… blame the system? The devs are the antagonists in this system and the only ones with the power to stop pushing out broken garbage and marketing based on lies.
Blaming the victims won’t change the system.
There will always be people unfamiliar with the pitfalls of the system. Always fresh victims to part from their money.
So I blame the company because the company is the system. I blame the scammers because they are the system.
Oh and regulations don’t even slow down scammers of any kind. They already know they’re breaking the rules, breaking laws is just the next logical step.
A step companies are all too willing to take because the punishments cost less than they’ll profit.
I do not blame people for being fooled… because there’s always a scam good enough to fool even me. And I’m smart.
Well, you’re correct on where the fault rests as long as the lies were willingly made, but in the scenario we’re originally talking about the ultimate result you’re ending up with is… Being an asshole. So, in this total fucked system of manipulation and marketing lies the justice you’re pushing for is being an asshole on a forum. I don’t really think that solves anything or justifies itself.
Don’t think that I’m arguing that the company should get a free pass for any of this or that the company isn’t at fault/isn’t the system, the root of what I’m saying is that toxicity isn’t really warranted when it’s about buying a videogame that wasn’t made well and didn’t meet marketing expectations, and if you want to avoid being in a situation where you got burned buying a product that didn’t meet your expectations, you can establish expectations closer to reality by doing smart research that is absolutely everywhere and easily obtained for free post-release. Being an asshole to a developer as a whole targets people that fundementally aren’t at fault, which is what allows companies to pull the whole “people don’t feel safe” card when public relations toxicity gets out of hand. A small part of that can be true, and doesn’t help our case.
Some people will fall for it, yes, and awareness helps reach people that aren’t going out of their way to research what they’re buying, but you can raise awareness and make a scene about this stuff in a mature fashion. I’m in no way saying we shouldn’t make a stink about situations like this, it’s how you do it.
See I still disagree; Im Australian and we measure a lot of things (social, political) by what we call the pub test.
If you can’t convince people in a pub that something is a good idea then it doesn’t pass the political pub test.
The social pub test is similar, it’s where if doing something in a pub would cause another patron to throw you a beating it fails the pub test.
If you rip someone off for $60 to $120 in a pub and they realise they will punch your head in.
Mean comments are an entirely reasonable if somewhat juvenile response to being lied to and ripped off.
Devs acting like victims because people said mean things after they lied to and ripped those people off is ridiculous.
They should grow a thicker skin or get out of the game of scamming people.
No, didn’t know about that.
I don’t think another industry having the same problem makes this one more palatable though.
You kinda have to think that though. You tried to argue that no other industry has the same problem, therefore this is unforgivable. So by following your own logic, it seems like because others do it as well it means it’s not unforgivable, it’s just the standard response. Very much a normal reaction to being fed shit by yet another corpo that expects you to compliment the taste.