In the spring of 2020, when President Donald J. Trump wrote messages on Twitter warning that increased reliance on mail-in ballots would lead to a “rigged election,” the platform ran a corrective, debunking his claims.
“Get the facts about mail-in voting,” a content label read. “Experts say mail-in ballots are very rarely linked to voter fraud,” the hyperlinked article declared.
This month, Elon Musk, who has since bought Twitter and rebranded it X, echoed several of Mr. Trump’s claims about the American voting system, putting forth distorted and false notions that American elections were wide open for fraud and illegal voting by noncitizens.
This time, there were no fact checks. And the X algorithm — under Mr. Musk’s direct control — helped the posts reach large audiences, in some cases drawing many millions of views.
Since taking control of the site, Mr. Musk has dismantled the platform’s system for flagging false election content, arguing it amounted to election interference.
Good luck in November, America. Seems you’ll need it more than ever.
The world needs it.
Democracy already lost to capitalism. Authoritarianism is the natural progression of allowing a minority to control most of humanity’s wealth/power/resources — a return to the mean that applied for 99% of recorded history.
deleted by creator
There is no full democracy, that can’t be attacked by fascists, if they get elected. There are enough examples for this in the world. Democracy needs the support of the citizens or it will not work. It is not a self-sufficient system.
deleted by creator
The word is spelt “sophisticated”
And yes, a democracy with a sufficiently educated populous is immune to authoritarianism
That’s probably why the American right attacks education
I propose that we either get governed by our AI children or let the alien invaders plant a puppet government that will take us to the stars, once they invade of course.
deleted by creator
Then no true democracy according to your definition exists.
I do not have a better suggestion.deleted by creator
The law will never apply equally, or be just. So long as we still pursue capitalism. It’s a deeply flawed system that has long outlived it’s usefulness. Since the advent of our industrialization it’s become an increasing threat to humanity.
deleted by creator
There’s a whole host of things even from the 19th century to try that we haven’t thoroughly looked at yet.
Basically broad strokes. Dilute power. Not just in government but society as well. All power corrupts. Put workers and managers on an equal footing. No ownership class. Push to make society value society and not capital. A person, their life, their health, and their shelter should never be treated as capital. And as a society we should punish anyone who tries.
The US also has a problem because the federal elections are first past the post, which excludes minor parties
I’m pretty sure that’s the root cause for the polarisation in American politics
If you look around the world at the Orbans, the Bolsanaros, the Le Penns, the AfD, etc., you will find that polarization and the rising far right is global. First past the post is not a good thing, but the causes are far deeper.
A past global trend was how the center left parties (Democrats in the US, 2nd International Socialist parties in most of the rest of the world) discredited themselves, abandoning their core constituencies and pushing neoliberal economic policies (in the US, free trade, dismantling welfare, the banking deregulation behind 2008). I think that’s the proximate cause in the rise of the global far right.
The cause of that trend is the inability of regulated capitalism to both provide for everyone AND provide the necessary ever increasing rate of profit.
While there have been stirrings of possible left reformist parties (Sanders, Corbyn, Lula, etc) even those that make it into state power are ineffective at creating a new, stable, political economy.
Meanwhile climate change is haunting the globe and the clock is ticking.
Isn’t authoritarianism the default type of government humans gravitate towards because there’s always some dumbass who wants to be king or emperor and they somehow pull it off?
Because the rich promise to lift a specific subset of people out of the muck, in exchange for that specific subset allowing them to rule and to keep the rest of the population far from their golden thrones. Capitalism has always been the fault, greed has always been the motivating factor.
People need to stop thinking that their life is any more important than their neighbor’s and start thinking that we’re all in it together and we should all enjoy the time we’ve got as best as we all possibly can. From king to peasant, from president to street rat we are all the same and should all be treated equally. How we can have billionaires and millionaires when someone will die homeless from hypothermia is beyond me. It’s not an individual responsibility either, that should be the goal of a good government; that all its citizens have in abundance and it should also be the goal of world leadership that nations work collectively to make sure that every citizen of every nation has in abundance.
Instead we have dragons laying atop golden mountains
I read a while ago that capitalism is cancer but industrialization isn’t. I think I see what you mean. Being driven by profit caused our well being to diminish to critical levels
I was going to send my drone to Ukraine but I might need it here. Hilarious the maga folks think they’re the only ones with weapons
I am fairly sure Dump will win. I’m already prepping my brain for 4 years of idiots, scheming, sexism, racism, and all hail God. I’m sorry everyone, we have a lot of raging dumb idiots here
4 years of idiots, scheming, sexism, racism, and all hail God.
If you think it will end after your years, you’re not prepping anywhere near hard enough.
I am out of the country before the election. Fuck it. I’m done with this country.
deleted by creator
Where are you heading?
I bought a little bluewater sailboat about a year ago and went through most of my life savings getting it ready. Don’t get me wrong, my “life savings” was pretty paltry for 30+ years of employment, and it’s a really small boat. Next month I’ll be leaving the west coast and heading west.
That sounds amazing–and terrifying! You’re one of those real life “I bought a boat and just went people.” While I couldn’t do a boat open ocean, one day I hope to emulate you and do something like the Great Loop, and other adventures. Fair winds and following seas.
Hey, thanks. Yeah, I sailed a lot as a kid, then just didn’t for several decades. It was always my dream to just go, but there was no way I could afford it. Then I found a pretty good deal, looked at my life and this country and just kind of said fuck it. It would be a blast to do the Great Loop! I hope you get to do it.
Damn, person just expressing their opinion and preparing for the worst and they get downvoted. They weren’t even supporting the win. The hive is buzzing.
I’m don’t think he will stay out of hospital for that long.
I can see him escaping justice due to ‘ill health’ but also having to give up the idea of running.
Orange man ftw 24
This was the plan the whole time. Duh
Right, 98% of it wasn’t anything about making money, improving the service, building something new, or allowing free speech.
He just wanted to make sure Twitter said what he wanted it to.
It’s been wildly successful on that front. Way way way more successful than, say, Truth Social.
Billionaires buying media. Just one more thing showing that democracy and insane wealth inequality are not compatible.
deleted by creator
So cut his fucking security clearance already for fucks sake what the fuck even is this pussy shit.
If drug use and election disinformation aren’t enough to kill his contracts, then the stupid fucking Democrats have no fucking balls.
the stupid fucking Democrats have no fucking balls. it’s just true. they don’t have what it takes to stand up to fascism. we need to fight them ourselves
they don’t have what it takes to stand up to fascism.
Man, what clued you in? For me it was it the bipartisan support for fascist leadership in Israel or because the Democrats keep going “well we have to make deals with fascists and limit your rights, because that’s democracy.” Cue the law they passed for their Republican buddies on a “deal” causing way more problems, never getting repealed, and then them acting like its a fucking win somehow.
deleted by creator
Sucks about your poor reading comprehension.
deleted by creator
Democrats because this affects them and if they don’t do anything about it they’re showing how toothless and useless they are in the face of fascists.
This is a big deal, and just letting it slide is a fucking joke. They have good reasons (the drug use) to revoke his security clearance already and they have not.
I vote for Democrats you dumb fuck. Why does every fucking IDIOT on Lemmy think valid critique of Democratic failures means we’re not voting for them. Take that shit and shove it.
https://lemmy.world/u/Zevlen is a dumb pearl-clutching harmless soft unthreatening androgynous stereotype that Republicans hope to push to rural working class as evidence that society is going to fail and be taken over by external existential threats if the other side wins.
deleted by creator
3rd party only works if it’s popular enough to replace one of the two ruling parties. FPTP does not allow for three large parties to coexist. There is no US 3rd party even remotely close to having a tiny chance at replacing anyone.
deleted by creator
There are similar things happening in Europe too. Because of the fascist parties rising, the “moderates” (corporatists) don’t have to do progressive politics. Because they know you basically have no choice but to vote for them. I believe this is part of the strategy of these donors, not for the fascists to win, but to undermine progressive politics or action on climate change.
What’s MIC? Does it stand for democracy in the US, which you are hoping to end by voting third party :D
*mic drop*
Next week- Elon blames Trump’s loss on voter fraud instigated by Jews working with Black people.
I feel like we need to add a leprechaun for good measure.
Why? Is Elon also bigoted against leprechauns?
It’s true, I saw some tweets calling musk a genius.
When I become a billionaire I hope you guys don’t let me become just a trash human like basically every billionaire.
You typically need to be a trash human being to begin with in order to become a billionaire.
Or the child of one
Which means your upbringing and education is ripe with coditioning to become a trash human. So that’s just another chicken/egg problem.
But you have to be a trash human in order to become a billionaire.
deleted by creator
It feels like why he wanted the site lol. The site is just a few steps above posting on truth social at this point.
Yes, that was his goal.
the mods on Lemmy don’t care about election misinformation either. I have had a thousand people tell me that voting for cornel west counts as a vote for trump, and I have never seen it removed.
hell, I was told this by a moderator for c/politics.
They weren’t wrong. There is a reason West is getting donations from conservatives like Harlan Crow that oppose his views.
But they are wrong. If someone is in a solidly blue state like California, a vote for Cornell West literally means nothing because of the Electoral College. Arguably, if you’re in a safe state like that, why not vote with your conscience? (I’m not here to make comment on West’s politics, I don’t follow him, I’m making a point about the Electoral College and Presidential elections)
I can understand having the attitude of “Well, there’s not really a lot of safe options” when they’re a swing state or hell even a red state (not a bad thing to try to make a dent against them on their own home turf), but it seems to be really talking down to a lot of Democrat voters who live in Democratic strongholds whose vote basically is meaningless because of the Electoral College but despite this they’re being bullied into voting the Democrat choice for President.
Now, even in a blue state, voting matters locally and not just giving your vote out to just any Tom, Dick or Harry matters. But a Presidential election where we continue to use the Electoral College to decide the President and not the popular vote? That’s just dismissive of the reality of how anti-Democratic the Electoral College actually is.
If it takes three paragraphs and your specific voting location to explain why your vote “technically” won’t go to 45, maybe those people are right. The problem is that there are a LOT of people that don’t understand the nuance and we have to plan for the lowest common denominator, otherwise people in actual swing states will see posts like your first one (lacking any explanation) and run with it. For them, a third party vote actually is helping 45.
Additionally, there’s a decent argument to be made about total votes even though they don’t “technically” decide the president. That number still matters and a lot of weight is thrown around with it. For all we know, this whole thing could hit the courts and having every advantage may be necessary to save our future.
Removed by mod
They weren’t responding to the original comment, they were responding to yours; I guess you could take your own advice, perhaps?
otherwise people in actual swing states will see posts like your first one (lacking any explanation)
That’s what they said. Maybe your reading comprehension needs some work, too, buddy. I didn’t have a “first one.”
Jesus you asswipes need to learn to fucking read.
Oh the irony of you telling us to read when you literally can’t figure out that yes, I was talking to YOU. When I said “your first post” it meant yours not the OP. Look in a mirror.
"first post’ implies more than one. at the time you originally responded to me, my response to you was my only response in the thread discussing anything related to third parties at the time.
So tell me please, why would you refer to “my first post” when the only one that referenced anything related to this subject was the one you were responding to?
Further, you say it “lacks explanation.” The only post I made about the subject included an explanation, dipshit, the explanation that you said “took three paragraphs.” That’s the only post I made on the subject of whether or not a third party counts as a vote for Trump.
Are you really this fucking stupid?
The problem is that there are a LOT of people that don’t understand the nuance and we have to plan for the lowest common denominator, otherwise people in actual swing states will see posts like your first one (lacking any explanation) and run with it. For them, a third party vote actually is helping 45.
Show me where I made that post, please. Because literally I came into the thread to add my explanation which you shat all over and then said I had left out of a previous post I obviously didn’t make.
Because this:
the mods on Lemmy don’t care about election misinformation either. I have had a thousand people tell me that voting for cornel west counts as a vote for trump, and I have never seen it removed.
hell, I was told this by a moderator for c/politics.
Was not me, genius.
Jesus christ you fucking morons. I reiterate, learn to fucking read.
Can you see that my username is not the top-level comment here or are you stupid or just a gaslighter?
The vote is counted for Cornell West. Not Trump.
Wheel of contrarianism turn turn turn, tell us the lesson that we should learn.
implying I’m a contrarian doesn’t change the truth of how votes are tallied.
Being obnoxiously pedantic doesn’t make you right either.
calling my position obnoxious and pedantic doesn’t falsify my claims
How can you expect yourself to integrate well into any conversation when you’re fixated on “well technically…”
If 99% of people colloquially agree that A = B, then it doesn’t really matter if ‘A’ and ‘B’ are really the same thing if everybody knows what we’re talking about. It’s the most obnoxious shit when someone tries to argue in this way, and you’re not convincing anybody or adding anything meaningful to the discussion.
They are wrong. You can stamp your feet and insist otherwise because you’re scared of losing, but they’re wrong.
That’s not misinformation. That’s just unfortunate and an indictment of our current elections system.
it’s misinformation. votes for Cornel West only count for Cornel West. they do not count for Trump.
That is technically true, but practically not so much. The way our elections are currently run, there are 2 candidates (again this is the practical truth not the technical truth). When turnout is high democrats win, and voting 3rd party for president is essentially the same as not voting at all. That’s what people mean, that unless it’s a vote for Biden, then it’s automatically a vote for Trump.
To be clear, I don’t like this, it’s incredibly stupid and I want to be able to vote for actually good candidates. But that is not the current reality in the states. Vote 3rd party in your local elections and campaign for them too. That’s where it’s still possible to make that happen and lay the ground work for better choices in the future.
unless it’s a vote for Biden, then it’s automatically a vote for Trump.
but that’s not true, in reality, at all.
saying it or implying it is misinformation
Is that the only part you read? There was a bit of explanation before that conclusion. You’re going to have to address the substance of my argument if you’re going to make a real counter argument. The reply you just gave me is ‘nuh uh’
I’m not making a counter argument: I’m pointing out your argument is not true. I don’t need an argument: you need to be truthful.
You being too dense to understand what they’re saying doesn’t make it misinformation.
I know what they’re saying. they’re being dishonest.
deleted by creator
why can’t we be friends?
As long as Trump gets elected, it’s money well spent I assume.
Everyone needs to take more responsibility for the nonsense they read instead of blaming it all on the platform or Elon.
Really? This is the same as “criminals should stop being criminals instead of having people complaining to the police that they don’t do their work”
“Oh, boo hoo,” Harmeet K. Dhillon, a lawyer whose firm represents Mr. Trump
I mean, they are basically just good old fashioned trolls - sadists, sociopaths and narcissists and morons. And they are winning.
We shouldn’t have been so mean to Elon. I blame reddit for this /s
Now that’s the real reason for dropping 44 billion on a zero profit only-costs platform. It already got Milei elected on Argentina, US and Mexico are next
It’s an oldschool move: buy the biggest newspaper in town to crush opposing voices. And later: radio stations, TV stations, TV networks, and so on. Social media is just the latest iteration.
Upshot is: If this is true, it’s kind of a big deal. It means that people banding together to share their opinions and taking jerks like this to task is worth billions to shut down. That’s how big a threat everyone is.
There’s still the open version of fact checking: community notes
What are the facts about this? That it doesn’t happen…that often?
There’s no real time enforcement for it to mean anything. The votes are tallied in real time, and a winner is announced, then months to years later people (who are caught) are prosecuted?
Can someone point out why mail in voting with no ID is a good thing? I’m genuinely curious
Can someone point out why mail in voting with no ID is a good thing?
-
You did not need an ID to vote for almost the entire history of the U.S. and no one had a problem with that.
-
Oregon has been entirely vote by mail since 1998. A voter ID is not required. There have been no significant issues.
So you point out why mail-in voting with no ID is a bad thing. Because it has been demonstrated to work without problems.
The military has had it since the civil war.
This person thinks that somehow non-citizens can register to vote. Been listening to too many Trump speeches, I guess.
Because we’ve all seen how fraudulent people can be right?
This is minor, but take a video game for example - even with nothing to gain, lots of systems have to be put in place because people go out of their way to game the systems and cheat.
Why would something with actual consequences be any different? Why wouldn’t you have even the simplest system in the way of that?
Please present evidence of this fraud. You should be able to easily show it happening in Oregon. You have over 25 years’ worth of elections to find evidence for.
I’m asking why you don’t want to protect your system and all you have to offer is “well it’s worked gud for 20+ years!”
You sound like a conservative
“It’s worked without any problems for 25 years” is not good enough? Why? How many more years does it need to work without any fraud for you to accept that it is not an issue? 40 years? 80 years? 150 years?
It’s like driving on an icy road - it’s all good until it isnt
So there’s no evidence of fraud, there’s no indication of fraud, there’s no mechanism for fraud because of the way it is done, but you want it to be scrapped because maybe possibly fraud?
That makes absolutely no sense.
“here’s a road, there have been no accidents on it for 25 years. I’m saying, without proof, that its icy and we need to rip the road out. not to rebuild it, not fix it by spreading sand or salt, just tear it out.”
No, you sound like a conservative. As in you’re literally repeating their talking points.
Along with Flying Squid’s request, can you show examples of voter fraud that would have changed an outcome? Or maybe what impact each case has? One person trying to vote twice in the same election at best might affect a local small race.
The numbers are actually pretty small, and ironically the group claiming there are voting issues (republicans) are the ones primarily getting caught doing it.
You’re arguing based on a scenario that has historically never happened on a level where it has had an effect on any election, past present or even recent.
To be fair, I don’t think there’s harm in there being a voter ID, but there’s no evidence of there being an issue for it not being there either. The biggest issue would likely be it would take time, and the world has to keep moving.
I don’t think there’s harm in there being a voter ID
There is.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color
Thank you for providing a rational answer
-
Oh wow, your comment history is almost entirely defending Elon Musk. That must be exhausting.
guess the new fact checkers are outside twitter but defending musks honour instead
Is it?
If you’re still “genuinely curious” about the voter ID issue that has been discussed to death for nearly five years, please do yourself a favor and stay away from any political discussions.
Community notes aren’t going to be useful if anybody with an IQ above room temperature has already left the platform.
Wtf is wrong with you
