Obviously but I’d love one to say something like “well, these speak English so we can reason with them.” and then bring up that guy who grifts about deradicalizing klan members.
that guy who grifts about deradicalizing klan members.
Is that just a grift? Can you explain? Id like to believe myself a rehabilitationist so I want to believe radical right wingers can be rehabilitated in ways that arent a bullet to a skull, but if one of the only evidence that deradicalization is possible isnt real… I never researched the topic much though so can you or someone explain?
I don’t know if it is truly a grift, i.e. that he is doing it for money, but I do know that libs have used him to say: look, we don’t need to hate racists, sexists, homophobes, transphobes, etc. the people that they hate just need to sit down with them and have a conversation and they will magically change. I also remember a person saying that one of his supposed converts was now just affiliated with a different hate group than the Klan, but I can’t seem to find that source.
Even if Daryl Davis is legitimate, he has certainly only deradicalized people who were there for the community vs. those who actually have deeply held beliefs that black people are deserving of persecution. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be parents who disown their own kids for being gay/trans.
The idea that even the avowed true believer fascists are not redeemable by any means kinda goes against my worldview. Like obviously some are but like, I know ex fascists. Tbf most of them were fascists as kids and grew out of it. And also there was one who was an “ex-fascist” for a long time and had become communist, and then after some pushback against leftover fashy behavior she ended up going back to fascism so that was faith shaking but like.
I’ve effortposted about how i feel about mass executing Nazis before. Individual violence against nazis who are openly being nazis in the street is another story to me obviously. But I still find it hard to believe that bigotry cant be rehabilitated.
I think I am essentially utilitarian about this. I don’t think it is, in general, worth an individual’s resources (time, effort, chance of being harmed) to try and rehabilitate a random adherent to hateful ideologies. People less beholden to evil are more attractive targets, and a bullet to a fascist head is a lot quicker.
Likewise though, I don’t think it is worth a society’s resources to mass execute a large subsection of their population, and so rehabilitation schemes are preferable.
To be honest though, I think most people only fall to fascist beliefs because of the appearance of an open community and the sublimation of their feelings of failure into hatred for some other group. If we ever succeed at crafting a more pro-social society where all have a place and there is a real sense of community, I think the majority of the current fash sympathizers would deradicalize themselves.
Also, on a personal note, I too lost a friend to fascism. He had reactionary views when I first met him, but also seemed to be a deep thinker that wanted a better world. Over time, I thought I had softened many of those views, and had even gotten him to accept the necessity of a universal, not-for-profit healthcare system. However, I could never find the ground to get him to deal with the (honestly pathetic) trauma of having been (supposedly) cheated on by his high school girl friend.
Dude just kept dating girls currently in, or fresh out of, high school. The relationships obviously never worked. Then he started dating a church girl (who was 17 while he was ~30) and they got married when she was like 19. He started telling me of the new found importance of god in his life, how our world was removed (this was before trump so that word held much less YIKES), how porn kept us lonely, the need for nuclear families, etc. I pushed back lightly, but he seemed happy for really the first time.
Then, predictably, they got a divorce as you don’t marry a child and think it’ll work out. His response: go full hate women MGTOW and fast track the alt-right pipeline to fascism. The last time we talked he was telling me about how helpful he’d found this new guy, Jordan Peterson. I cut ties after he said America’s downfall began with women getting the right to vote.
I once considered him like a brother. I now sometimes have nightmares about him killing me or his ex-wife.
Edit: Oh, I had a friend that dated him for a while. She confided in me when we reconnected years later that he had stalked her for years and she had gotten a restraining order and a gun because she was so scared of him. I’d already cut contact at this point, but I also never saw this side of him. We were definitely at our closest while he was also stalking her.
Obviously
but I’d love one to say something like “well, these speak English so we can reason with them.” and then bring up that guy who grifts about deradicalizing klan members.
America delenda est.
Is that just a grift? Can you explain? Id like to believe myself a rehabilitationist so I want to believe radical right wingers can be rehabilitated in ways that arent a bullet to a skull, but if one of the only evidence that deradicalization is possible isnt real… I never researched the topic much though so can you or someone explain?
I don’t know if it is truly a grift, i.e. that he is doing it for money, but I do know that libs have used him to say: look, we don’t need to hate racists, sexists, homophobes, transphobes, etc. the people that they hate just need to sit down with them and have a conversation and they will magically change. I also remember a person saying that one of his supposed converts was now just affiliated with a different hate group than the Klan, but I can’t seem to find that source.
Even if Daryl Davis is legitimate, he has certainly only deradicalized people who were there for the community vs. those who actually have deeply held beliefs that black people are deserving of persecution. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be parents who disown their own kids for being gay/trans.
The idea that even the avowed true believer fascists are not redeemable by any means kinda goes against my worldview. Like obviously some are but like, I know ex fascists. Tbf most of them were fascists as kids and grew out of it. And also there was one who was an “ex-fascist” for a long time and had become communist, and then after some pushback against leftover fashy behavior she ended up going back to fascism so that was faith shaking but like.
I’ve effortposted about how i feel about mass executing Nazis before. Individual violence against nazis who are openly being nazis in the street is another story to me obviously. But I still find it hard to believe that bigotry cant be rehabilitated.
I think I am essentially utilitarian about this. I don’t think it is, in general, worth an individual’s resources (time, effort, chance of being harmed) to try and rehabilitate a random adherent to hateful ideologies. People less beholden to evil are more attractive targets, and a bullet to a fascist head is a lot quicker.
Likewise though, I don’t think it is worth a society’s resources to mass execute a large subsection of their population, and so rehabilitation schemes are preferable.
To be honest though, I think most people only fall to fascist beliefs because of the appearance of an open community and the sublimation of their feelings of failure into hatred for some other group. If we ever succeed at crafting a more pro-social society where all have a place and there is a real sense of community, I think the majority of the current fash sympathizers would deradicalize themselves.
Also, on a personal note, I too lost a friend to fascism. He had reactionary views when I first met him, but also seemed to be a deep thinker that wanted a better world. Over time, I thought I had softened many of those views, and had even gotten him to accept the necessity of a universal, not-for-profit healthcare system. However, I could never find the ground to get him to deal with the (honestly pathetic) trauma of having been (supposedly) cheated on by his high school girl friend.
Dude just kept dating girls currently in, or fresh out of, high school. The relationships obviously never worked. Then he started dating a church girl (who was 17 while he was ~30) and they got married when she was like 19. He started telling me of the new found importance of god in his life, how our world was removed (this was before trump so that word held much less YIKES), how porn kept us lonely, the need for nuclear families, etc. I pushed back lightly, but he seemed happy for really the first time.
Then, predictably, they got a divorce as you don’t marry a child and think it’ll work out. His response: go full hate women MGTOW and fast track the alt-right pipeline to fascism. The last time we talked he was telling me about how helpful he’d found this new guy, Jordan Peterson. I cut ties after he said America’s downfall began with women getting the right to vote.
I once considered him like a brother. I now sometimes have nightmares about him killing me or his ex-wife.
Edit: Oh, I had a friend that dated him for a while. She confided in me when we reconnected years later that he had stalked her for years and she had gotten a restraining order and a gun because she was so scared of him. I’d already cut contact at this point, but I also never saw this side of him. We were definitely at our closest while he was also stalking her.